Gregg's Nearly Interminable Adventures in Linux Land

[arjaybe]

Apparently Abiword has a grammar checker. Here is a variety of others:

web based - also browser extensions https://languagetool.org/

extension for LibreOffice https://extensions.libreoffice.org/e...s/languagetool

list of LO extensions http://www.techrepublic.com/blog/fiv...mmar-problems/

good luck

[PeterT]

Ginger has a browser based version. See https://newtab.gingersoftware.com/?ver=1.2.57

[Gregg Bell]

Originally Posted by arjaybe

Apparently Abiword has a grammar checker. Here is a variety of others:

web based - also browser extensions https://languagetool.org/

extension for LibreOffice https://extensions.libreoffice.org/e...s/languagetool

list of LO extensions http://www.techrepublic.com/blog/fiv...mmar-problems/

good luck

Hey RJB. I've got the language tool but I didn't know about all the extensions. Thanks.

[Gregg Bell]

Originally Posted by PeterT

Ginger has a browser based version. See https://newtab.gingersoftware.com/?ver=1.2.57

Thanks Peter. That caught some pretty subtle errors. I'm definitely using it next time I'm cleaning something up.

[Gregg Bell]

Okay, not a Linux question per se, but you guys know so much, I figure you'll know about this too. I just upgraded my Godaddy email because it was so crappy. Now I have Microsoft's Outlook 365 Essentials Basic. Fine. It works great. It wasn't that expensive. But a Godaddy rep is telling me that I really need to get Outlook Email Client. (For another $178 for three years.) He says the Essentials security is okay but even so it will be so easy for someone to steal my password and then clone my account.

I told him I'm just a writer and I'm not selling anything. (I do send regularly to my newsletter list wich is 5K.) Still, he says hackers'll hack my account and send phishing and spoofing emails to my newsletter list etc etc etc.

My Essentials has a really strong password and I'm super careful about not opening attachments or suspicious emails.

I Googled the difference between webmail and client email and not one article talked about the webmail being more likely to get hacked. (A big thing the Godaddy rep kept saying was that with a regular email account you're always entering your password (and hence you're more likely to have it stolen) whereas with the client you don't have to enter the password.)

So my questions:

1) Do you think I need an email client?
2) If yes, do I need to get their Outlook? (Couldn't I get a free one like Thunderbird?)


Thanks!

[DMcCunney]

Originally Posted by Gregg Bell

So my questions:

1) Do you think I need an email client?

I'll admit bias here.

Once upon a time, I downloaded email via POP and read it in Outlook. I could have used the then free MS Outlook Express (which is no longer offered), but I needed compatibility with the office, where Outlook was a mainstay, and I needed more powerful mail filtering than OE offered. OE was IF <condition> DO <action>, but I needed more. I got (and still get) a lot of email, and needed to be able to rice, slice and dice it in ways OE could not.

(At the office, we lived in Outlook's shared calendar, which was another reason to run it at home too. The calendar function was likely more important than the email function. )

Back when Gmail was still invitational beta, a chap in a mailing list I'm on worked for Google, and offered Gmail invites. I took one. It literally changed my life.

One issue I encountered in Outlook was that it got really confused when the mailbox.pst file where it stored downloaded mail grew over 2GB. (It was a 32 bit pointer problem.) Symptoms were new mail not getting added, and duplicates of existing mail multiplying like cockroaches.

Another issue, not Outlook specific, was that my ISP offered a rather small Inbox on their server. (IIRC, I got 5MB of space.) If I didn't DL mail every day and delete it from the server, the Inbox would fill up, and new incoming mail would bounce.

I moved to Gmail, and those problems went away. Gmail polled my ISP account (and several others), and all mail appeared in my Gmail Inbox. Gmail offered a constantly increasing amount of storage space (which has now settled at 15GB for basic free accounts.)

I made Gmail my primary email address, everything got sent to it, and I stopped caring about the size of my ISP's Inbox, because mail no longer went there. My mail resides on Google's servers, and I read and reply in my browser. I can do that from wherever I happen to have a current browser and broadband access. I don't need local copies stored on my machine (and lost if there's a hardware failure.)

My Gmail mailstore is a database, searchable via standard Google routines. I can use labels and filters to classify mail. Incoming mail is processed by filters, which apply labels. One of the things that most filters do is automatically label and Archive received mail. Mail that is Archived does not appear in my Inbox. Instead, a list of labels appears on the left side of my Gmail window. Labels applied to mail that has not been read appear there. To read it, I click on the label, and all mail with that label applied appears in the window. It acts like Folders in Outlook, with a critical difference: more than one label can be applied to an email, so the same email can appear under more than one label (and in more than one virtual folder.)

In essence, labels are arbitrary index keys I can use to query the mail database.

Gmail also offers the best spam filtering I've ever seen. I no longer care about spam. Perhaps one new spam message appears in my Inbox every two weeks, if that. Click Report Spam, and I don't see it again. It's not perfect, so I do check what got labeled Spam and redirect false positives, but it works very well.

And after switching to Gmail, I stopped running A/V software on the Windows side. I had been using Symantec Corporate, via an employer site license. The version I was running reached end of life, and I no longer worked for that employer , so a new version would be on my dime. I asked "Do I need to run A/V?", and concluded I didn't. Viruses and malware are infections. Infections have vectors by which they enter the host. Ward the vector, and block the infection.

The principle vector for viruses was email. All Symantec had ever found was "false positives". My Gmail mailstore resides on Gmail's servers. I read and reply in my browser. Gmail implements viewers for most common attachments, so I can open and see them in my browser. None of it ever actually reaches my machine. I stopped running A/V.

And Google is fanatic about security, so I do not worry about getting hacked.

2) If yes, do I need to get their Outlook? (Couldn't I get a free one like Thunderbird?)

Outlook is a Microsoft product, part of MS Office. You can't use Outlook because Office is not available for Linux. You could use Thunderbird, but the question is whether you need to.

From where I sit, the answer is no, but as mentioned, I'm biased. See above about why.

I have Thunderbird here, but don't use it for email. It's a newsreader as well as email client, and I still follow some newsgroups.
______
Dennis

[Gregg Bell]

Thanks Dennis. That was quite an endorsement for Gmail. So the Godaddy guy, who said gmail could be easily hacked, was wrong? I have Gmail for my personal email and yeah, it's great. I have five or six email accounts (mostly to see what the emails I send look like on other email accounts) and feel no need for a client to bring them together in one place. My only concern was if the client (in this case, let's say Thunderbird) was more secure than the Microsoft Outlook 365 Essentials that I now have?

And btw the Godaddy rep said the Essentials (since it's paid) has better security than Gmail.

Again, the rep kept stressing that the continual putting in of the password was what made regular webmail accounts so much more vulnerable than email clients.

So do you think I'm okay with the Essentials (it would seem so) or would I be safer with Thunderbird?

[DMcCunney]

Originally Posted by Gregg Bell

Thanks Dennis. That was quite an endorsement for Gmail. So the Godaddy guy, who said gmail could be easily hacked, was wrong?

I'll be polite and not say "He was lying through his teeth", and leave it at "Yeah, he's wrong." He's trying to sell you something. You question whether you need it. So do I.

I haver never heard of Gmail being successfully hacked. Yahoo and AOL, on the other hand, are very different matters.

Gmail is set for two factor authentication, with a very non-obvious password. The password is stored by my browser, and entered automatically. Communication with Gmail is via https, so the session to it is encrypted. I am not concerned about my password being sniffed, nor my account being hacked.

(And as a rule, I do not consider email secure technology. In general, I don't say things in email that would give me heartburn if seen by third parties. Unless you are me, reading my email will be mystifying or profoundly boring, but you won't learn anything about me I'm concerned with keeping private. If it's that sensitive, that's what things like GPG are for, but I have yet to have a reason to use GPG.)

I have Gmail for my personal email and yeah, it's great. I have five or six email accounts (mostly to see what the emails I send look like on other email accounts) and feel no need for a client to bring them together in one place. My only concern was if the client (in this case, let's say Thunderbird) was more secure than the Microsoft Outlook 365 Essentials that I now have?

I don't understand why you need a client at all.

Are you downloading mail to a local mailstore? Why?

I have an assortment of accounts. Gmail polls them. Mail from them appears in Gmail. Gmail can be set to label them based on origin. I don't. It can set so replies to mail from polled accounts appear to come from the account that was polled. I do.

I could, but haven't, set up separate Gmail accounts for specific purposes. Thus far, I haven't needed to.

I'm perfectly content with my mail living on Google's servers. I have no need for local copies.

And btw the Godaddy rep said the Essentials (since it's paid) has better security than Gmail.

Now I'll stop being polite. He's so full of it his eyeballs should turn brown. There are two possibilities - either he's dreadfully ignorant, and actually believes what he's saying, or he knows better and he's lying and preying on your ignorance to sell you something. Which it is doesn't matter. Either would be cause for me to stop dealing with GoDaddy.

Again, the rep kept stressing that the continual putting in of the password was what made regular webmail accounts so much more vulnerable than email clients.

And what does he think happens when an email client communicates with a server? Email servers want authentication, to prove you are the person authorized to access that email. They want a user id and a password. You create the account in the email client when you set it up. The client sends the user id and password as part of the negotiation when you check for email on the server. This is different from webmail how, exactly?

The practical difference between using a client and webmail is where the mail is when you access and read it.

So do you think I'm okay with the Essentials (it would seem so) or would I be safer with Thunderbird?

I don't understand why you need Essentials. (I haven't used it, and can't talk about how secure it is relative to Thunderbird.)

For that matter, I don't understand why you need GoDaddy. What do they provide for you?
______
Dennis

[avantman42]

Originally Posted by DMcCunney

Now I'll stop being polite. He's so full of it his eyeballs should turn brown. There are two possibilities - either he's dreadfully ignorant, and actually believes what he's saying, or he knows better and he's lying and preying on your ignorance to sell you something. Which it is doesn't matter. Either would be cause for me to stop dealing with GoDaddy.

Completely agree with Dennis. The idea that product A has better security than product B just because you have to pay for it is absurd. People have been trotting this out about Linux vs Windows security for years, and it's ridiculous.

Originally Posted by DMcCunney

And what does he think happens when an email client communicates with a server? Email servers want authentication, to prove you are the person authorized to access that email. They want a user id and a password. You create the account in the email client when you set it up. The client sends the user id and password as part of the negotiation when you check for email on the server. This is different from webmail how, exactly?

The only difference I can see is that if you're typing in your password, you're vulnerable to a keyboard sniffer. But only if you have things set up so that you have to type in your password, and only if you're not using two-factor authentication. If you have a client and have it set up so that you have to type in the password every time, you're still vulnerable to a keyboard sniffer.

There are advantages and disadvantages to both approaches, so I'd say use the one that you prefer.

[DMcCunney]

Originally Posted by avantman42

Completely agree with Dennis. The idea that product A has better security than product B just because you have to pay for it is absurd. People have been trotting this out about Linux vs Windows security for years, and it's ridiculous.

The basis of security is knowledge, and too many lack it.

I run both Windows and Linux, and have never had a problem, because I have knowledge and know how be be secure.

(And Windows is a lot more secure than it used to be. A lot of the problems stem from being originally written in the days when nobody thought someone might deliberately try to do something like overflow a buffer to make a system unstable and potentially insecure. These days, the default assumption is "Never trust your data!", and take measures to deal with the fact that what you get might not be what the program it's fed to expects to deal with.)

The only difference I can see is that if you're typing in your password, you're vulnerable to a keyboard sniffer. But only if you have things set up so that you have to type in your password, and only if you're not using two-factor authentication. If you have a client and have it set up so that you have to type in the password every time, you're still vulnerable to a keyboard sniffer.

That's dependent upon circumstances, and where you are and how you connect when you do. It's not something I worry about, in part because I'm not manually entering passwords.

There are advantages and disadvantages to both approaches, so I'd say use the one that you prefer.

I know folks who prefer to download to a local mailstore, but that's because of a long established workflow in place from before webmail became common. They could use webmail, but changing the workflow would be a pain.

For most folks, I recommend webmail, with the proviso of being fussy about who provides it.
______
Dennis

[DiapDealer]

I use Windows and Linux, as well. I'm strictly webmail (gmail) these days. I haven't used an ISP-provided email for years (other than having my gmail account poll it). You couldn't pay me to go back to using a dedicated email client program.

[Gregg Bell]

Originally Posted by DMcCunney

I'll be polite and not say "He was lying through his teeth", and leave it at "Yeah, he's wrong." He's trying to sell you something. You question whether you need it. So do I.

I haver never heard of Gmail being successfully hacked. Yahoo and AOL, on the other hand, are very different matters.

Gmail is set for two factor authentication, with a very non-obvious password. The password is stored by my browser, and entered automatically.

Thanks a lot for the explanation, Dennis. So I use KeePass2 for most of my passwords but I figured I was safer having my important passwords offline written down somewhere. Firefox and Chrome are always asking to store my passwords and I'm always saying no. Would it be wise to store even my important passwords in the browsers? Or maybe they'd be better off in KeePass2?

Originally Posted by DMcCunney

Communication with Gmail is via https, so the session to it is encrypted. I am not concerned about my password being sniffed, nor my account being hacked.

Are we all vulnerable to keystroke sniffing all the time?

Originally Posted by DMcCunney

(And as a rule, I do not consider email secure technology. In general, I don't say things in email that would give me heartburn if seen by third parties. Unless you are me, reading my email will be mystifying or profoundly boring, but you won't learn anything about me I'm concerned with keeping private. If it's that sensitive, that's what things like GPG are for, but I have yet to have a reason to use GPG.)

I don't say anything sensitive either. I just don't want to get hacked and then have the scumbag send out spoofing or phishing emails to my friends. (Or if it was my list, 5K readers.)

Originally Posted by DMcCunney

I don't understand why you need a client at all.

Are you downloading mail to a local mailstore? Why?

I don't want a client. I used Thunderbird along time ago and didn't like it. It was just that Godaddy guy hammering me about how I needed a client.

Originally Posted by DMcCunney

And what does he think happens when an email client communicates with a server? Email servers want authentication, to prove you are the person authorized to access that email. They want a user id and a password. You create the account in the email client when you set it up. The client sends the user id and password as part of the negotiation when you check for email on the server. This is different from webmail how, exactly?

That's the thing. I never knew. He was just convincing me that if I had an email client I wouldn't be entering the password in the keyboard. Hence safer.

Originally Posted by DMcCunney

The practical difference between using a client and webmail is where the mail is when you access and read it.

Okay.

Originally Posted by DMcCunney

I don't understand why you need Essentials. (I haven't used it, and can't talk about how secure it is relative to Thunderbird.)

For that matter, I don't understand why you need GoDaddy. What do they provide for you?
______
Dennis

I got Essentials because Godaddy's free email (that came with the website builder) was horrific.

And Godaddy hosts my website and their new website builder is really pretty good. And 24/7 telephone support is good. Most of the people are really good, but some are real salesmen. (I have to gear up for being sold something every time I call.)

[Gregg Bell]

Originally Posted by avantman42

The only difference I can see is that if you're typing in your password, you're vulnerable to a keyboard sniffer. But only if you have things set up so that you have to type in your password, and only if you're not using two-factor authentication. If you have a client and have it set up so that you have to type in the password every time, you're still vulnerable to a keyboard sniffer.

There are advantages and disadvantages to both approaches, so I'd say use the one that you prefer.

Thanks Russell. I have most of my passwords in KeePass2. I figured the important ones were safer being written down, though. But those are two-factor authentication cases anyway. Google and Chrome always want my passwords and I always say no. Maybe I should use them? Or just put all my passwords in Keepass2. I could even get one of those Key Files for Keepass2.

[Gregg Bell]

Originally Posted by DiapDealer

I use Windows and Linux, as well. I'm strictly webmail (gmail) these days. I haven't used an ISP-provided email for years (other than having my gmail account poll it). You couldn't pay me to go back to using a dedicated email client program.

Thanks Diap. I never liked Thunderbird. It was just a mess.

[Gregg Bell]

Okay. Here's my latest problem. I belong to this dating site Christian Mingle. This morning I got an email saying my account was compromised. Indeed it was. I couldn't get in. Well, it was a mess. With Christian Mingle's help I was able to start getting in with a new email address and password, but the site never fully opened and was just all-around messed up. The tech said, log out (of the site we were chatting in), clear the cache, close the browser and then open the browser and log back in.

So I did. And I was able to get in. My profile was still a lot of the hacker's but the troublesome thing was the site was still messed up and super slow. So I got out and in a little while tried getting in again from Google. Well, I couldn't even get started that way. The screen was blank. And once when I clicked on the Christian Mingle link in Google it did absolutely nothing. And getting into a lot of my other sites was super slow. I was like, 'The browser is messed.' And it wasn't just Firefox. I tried with Chrome too and it too was messed.

And even stuff like when I would open the Christian Mingle site these site names (which I usually never notice) were popping up in the lower left hand corner. Stuff like:

jsappboycdn.com

transferring data from fast.wistia.com

v2.zopim.com

TLS handshake

and this LibreOffice site address (that I had been in earlier) and even my bank name (that I had been in yesterday).

But after an hour or so everything settled down. The Christian Mingle site became fully functional and quick as usual. All the other functionality of the browsers and sites was normal too.

So, maybe esp. because the bank name came up, now I'm wondering though if I have a virus. And even though everything is functional (I'm on a different computer now) I'm still a little leery of using it. Especially the important sites.

I changed the passwords of the important sites and have tightened up all the alerts and so forth at those sites.

But still I'm leery of using them because of how funky the browsers were.

So I have a perfectly functioning computer but I'm still leery. Could the browsers have been so messed up and just recovered like that if it was just a case of my Christian Mingle account being compromised? Or was it more than likely a virus?

Should I just use the computer (carefully) and see if there's any sign of dysfunctionality or should I take it to a computer guy? (And probably pay a hundred bucks.) I don't want to be paranoid about this but I also don't want to be stupid either.

I don't feel terribly vulnerable because of the safeguards I've taken. What's a reasonable approach to this situation?

Thanks much.