Some news about upcoming Onyx devices

[fgdas]

Originally Posted by Booxtor

Onyx Boox has finaly unveiled some details about their three new upcoming big screen devices:

-The Onyx Boox MAX2 PRO 13.3 inch flexible e-ink Carta
-The Note 10.3 inch flexible e-ink Carta
-The Canvas 9,7" inch e-ink Carta with Dual Touch and Light

I've read the specs about 50 times and watched these YouTube videos 55 times.

Most important info about availability and prices are still missing.

You know how late Onyx is with these updates.

[mdp]

Originally Posted by Booxtor

I permanently ask them to re-design hardware buttons and re-position of the power button.

Sure thing for the power button, even though it never did me the bad trick of being oversensitive, but I do not guess what you have against the other hardware buttons.

But if I could pick one thing to ask the team, it would be: «Please test the most important Android applications, make sure they work well.». In my case, as often repeated: Kingsoft 5.12 and WPS latest. But of course everybody has their pick.

[Question Mark]

Originally Posted by Booxtor

The shown device is still prototype. Some changes in appearance are to expect. E.g I permanently ask them to re-design hardware buttons and re-position of the power button.

Glad to hear that the re-positioning of the power button may change. That was a definite design mistake. Even just recessing it and leaving it there would be fine. Anything to prevent an accidental triggering of it.

I hope they reconsider their decision not to equip the Note with an SD card slot. It's so nice being able to have your library saved on an external card for those times when you might have to perform a factory reset. You can just pop it out to perform the reset, then pop it back in when the device is functioning properly again. Not that I have had to do that on my Max yet. However, I have had to do that on other devices.

If there is really to be no slot for an external SD card, please, please ask them to make sure that it has USB OTG capabilities. It's nice being able to move information about when no laptop is handy. I don't willingly use the cloud for much of anything.

[franzli]

I'm also sorely missing a micro-sd slot, for me that's the one thing that keeps the note from being great (at least on paper for starters, we'll have to see about reality).
OTG would be a nice addition (and indeed a requirement if it really ends up not getting micro-sd), but if I'd have to chose, I'd go for micro-sd.

Looking forward to hearing about availability -and pricing...

[dkccerbero]

Very good news! I like the 9.7 size. It is very portable. The 10 ish screen is cool too.
But I'll like more a 10.3 with the hardware of the others (2Gb and quad core). I have a 9.7ml carta+ and feel that the 4.4 (not beta) or even better, 6.0 would be perfect.
The carta+ has so much potential (also de n96ml) and the old android (4.0) is bellow its posibilities... Any news of the official 4.4?
I am from Argentina, sorry for the "robotic" english...

[BKeeper]

Originally Posted by Booxtor

The shown device is still prototype. Some changes in appearance are to expect. E.g I permanently ask them to re-design hardware buttons and re-position of the power button.

I'm eagerly awaiting the Max2 pro, it's a dream (except for screen res).

And I will buy it from you Boxxtor.

But God, the power button placement is terrible.

It seems that we are still a good 3-4 months away and if the circuit board is still at the bottom I would not hold my breath for a radical redesign.

But oh great Booxtor, why... why Android 6 and not 8 (with project treble) at this point?


Can anybody confirm usb C for the Max2 Pro?
Also, isnt't it strange that in non of the videos does the guy use touch...?

[Randy11]

Originally Posted by tracey1

If the Max2Pro comes with 128 gb storage, I dont see a need for a sd card

I haven't access to the Wifi ... and the direct connexion with an USB active device is problematic. But, I can use an SD card to transfer the files. So, an SD card is necessary.

[mdp]

Originally Posted by Randy11

direct connexion with USB is active device is problematic

Yes, it's more trublesome than SD-card, but realistically it will be easier to have it.

[mdp]

And another message to Onyx, «Keep up the very good, clever and dedicated work you have been doing up to now!».

I am testing a different brand device, as I wanted to check a few things.
I see that their interpretation of A2 is "threshold" instead of "dither". When you enable A2 mode in this other device, all you see is silhouettes. When you do it on Onyx, dithering is applied to the distribution of black and white pixels and it is comparable to greyscale (while of course a lesser quality if compared to the proper greyscale of "Normal" mode).
To have that kind of quality (and attention) on the Boox Max Carta was a very nice surprise.
On this other device, A2 is only useful for its most basic feature of avoiding refresh flicker - but you will never be able to render video or images - including replicating a desktop usefully etc. (EDIT > ) You cannot even recognize icons. So, engineering the Onyx devices already includes features that are not to be taken for granted.

[mdp]

Also: we may need to have a way to disable screen update caching.

It was clear when I first met the issue.

Some firmwares had aggressive caching: if you type a string - "1234567890", sometimes it will appear immediately, sometimes it will never appear until you "wake up" the device (with screen interaction etc.).

The device may "go to sleep" on its own judgement and disable screen updates.

It is useless to have a faster processor if screen reaction is disabled.

Caching may sometimes be useful, but if it is there, there must also be a way to disable it.

[Booxtor]

Originally Posted by mdp

It's so good to see you in the boards again.

Thanks! I actually didn't leave the boards I last time I was heavily busy with polishing our new shop system (https://ereader.store), since our old system is already quite obsolete and cannot be just upgraded per button click (a lot of own modifications). Unfortunately it became unstable in last time so we decided to move to another system.

Originally Posted by mdp

Is it safe to assume the new high-end is rk3188 based, maybe "rk30" boards? It's the only product that I seem to find with those specifications.

One question about the exciting world of production: the rk3188 is an excellent ARM Cortex A9, that will bring fresh air. But the half-informed would have presume that it would be time for the ARM Cortex A17 (160% performance per watt with respect to its predecessor) - the rk3288 is an example. Why are they currently unsuitable (or not chosen)? The price, lack of EPD support, product consolidation...?

To be honest - I don't know. Most likely the price could play a big role by decision makers. Additionally the higher processor performance in ereaders is not really of big importance. The decision to move to new processors architecture was made in first line to offer higher Android versions compatible chip sets.

Originally Posted by downeaster59

Hi, Booxtor!
... In the meantime, is there any chance that Onyx will offer an Android 6.0 upgrade for current devices, like the Kepler Pro?

AFAIK the currently used in Onyx devices chip sets will not be supported by Android versions higher than 4.4.4

Originally Posted by mdp

Ah: can you send me one before the 1st of March?
Upon reasonable payment, of course : )

I really hope so! We expect to get the first small batch of them in the first weeks of 2018

Originally Posted by Nate the great

what's the ship date on the new models?

There is no official schedule yet. At least Onyx doesn't reveal it. Internally I was promised to get a small quantity of the first batch of new devices in the first weeks of 2018

Originally Posted by tracey1

@booxtor Can you convince them to emulate that Floyd Mode Dasung has ? They have a chance to completely outperform the Paperlike here and make it obsolete, they should use it.

Not sure what Dasung really does offer. AFAIK they call it Floyd-Warshall algorithm in they Pro devices. Onyx develops own techniques in order to achieve better screen performance. We have implemented the Floyd-Steinberg Dithering. I don’t know if both of the Floyd algorithm are of same efficiency.

Originally Posted by onyxuser

Booxtor, what about modifications of Max2 WITHOUT capacitive touch ? Will they be released ?
Please reply

AFAIK currently they are thinking about two versions of Max2 - Max2 (Wacom only) and Max2Pro (dual touch)

Originally Posted by Randy11

Hello Booxtor,

.. what the status for the SD-card slot ? ..

Max and Canvas will be equipped with SD card slot. Boox Note - currently designed without SD Card slot, but the internal storage could be increased up to 64GB (dependent on demand )

[joblack]

Originally Posted by Booxtor

AFAIK currently they are thinking about two versions of Max2 - Max2 (Wacom only) and Max2Pro (dual touch)

Thank's for the information.

Just out of curiosity. Doesn't a dual touch impact the picture quality because of the extra layer?

[Randy11]

Originally Posted by Booxtor

AFAIK currently they are thinking about two versions of Max2 - Max2 (Wacom only) and Max2Pro (dual touch)
[...]
Max and Canvas will be equipped with SD card slot. Boox Note - currently designed without SD Card slot, but the internal storage could be increased up to 64GB (dependent on demand )

Hello Booxtor,

Thanks for this ! I'm waiting ...

[mdp]

Originally Posted by joblack

Doesn't a dual touch impact the picture quality because of the extra layer?

I think we should push for some reviewer - the people who get them in advance from the firm - to get as-close-as-possible real life pictures.
Also because, remember, some like it one way and some the other way (if we focus on the screen - moultitouch, though not impossible it's hard to do without).

[mdp]

Originally Posted by Booxtor

Additionally the higher processor performance in ereaders is not really of big importance. The decision to move to new processors architecture was made in first line to offer higher Android versions compatible chip sets.

It is and is not. When you are in the act of reading - which of course is the main focus of EPD, but "reading" is not limited to the area of "traditional books" in up-to-date formats -, of course it is not important. But you want responsiveness in the general use of the interface, and it is comfortable to have pages rendering in .1 seconds instead of 1 instead of 10. But more importantly, you want responsiveness when you are using interactive applications: the foremost being "typing", text editing, and other may follow. I should mention that also hypertext consultation is a reading model that does not use the static habits of page-by-page focus; a good processor makes a difference while browsing the www. (Have you ever read the visionary milestone from Vannever Bush, 1945, "As We May Think" - introducing the Memex?)
It is because of these applications, which represent the next goal for EPD devices, that we need snappy systems.

I am a bit concerned that "new hardware (sufficient) for new software" will mean that the difference between "available capacity" and "system required load" will be constant, or not advantageous - i.e. you get similar responsiveness because the capacity grew, but also the system requirements. Instead, I wish the general responsiveness to improve. When Office Automation becomes comparable to that of the desktop (without considering the real estate constraints of mobility), I am satisfied.

Originally Posted by Booxtor

Onyx develops own techniques in order to achieve better screen performance. We have implemented the Floyd-Steinberg Dithering. I don’t know if both of the Floyd algorithm are of same efficiency.

And it is fantastic, and an excellent idea, and what I praised above.

Someone may be interested in what I wrote yesterday in a mail addressing to a different engineering team:

[...] And I need to bring your attention to the way A2 mode works on the device. A2 mode on the current Icarus Illumina XL HD works by computing a threshold of the rendered image. This makes it useless for most tasks in which it would be an asset. If you rendered a vertical gradient through your A2 mode, I suspect it will be a kind of flag, two bands, black and white. On other devices, A2 mode works as *dithering*, not as threshold. If one rendered a vertical gradient through such A2 mode, one would still see a gradient - of black dots becoming less and less diffused until complete white. Those devices allow not only - as a useful consequence - to play real animations and movies well and in a usable manner, they do a correct job in those automatic switches to A2 when scrolling through GUI elements: in your current A2 mode the text remains readable but the icons become unintelligeable; in the dithering implementation of A2 mode also the icons remain perfectly recognizable, while not fully defined.