Sony's new 13.3" digital paper DPTRP1 released

[digiflash]

Originally Posted by xoanohn

I haven’t found it yet, but is there a battery indicator for the pen on the reader?

As far as I have seen such a feature. The RP1 notify you on a low battery with a message-window and that you have to use another stylus.

[ManDay]

Originally Posted by LarryNYC

Hmm, so, the RP1 keeps track of the pages you've written on in one list, the "Handwriting List", and your highlights in another, the "Highlight List". Both of these lists are displayed in a two tabbed list in the "Annotation List" option on a document. You don't have to draw pentagrams, stars, or any geometric shape. I guess you think that because one silly reviewer drew pentagrams! LOL. You just write something on the page in order for it to be bookmarked.

It wasn't for no reason that I referred to the above video. Have a look at mark 1:50 onwards and particulary 2:10 - if I'm not utterly mistaken that's precisely what I described https://youtu.be/d9fPqkIhcl4?t=1m50s

A rendering of the complete page, with handwritten notes, is shown in the "Handwriting List", such that you can actually read the text and see the context, an excellent feature, in my opinion. The Highlight list shows the actual text that you highlighted, also a wonderful thing, I think.

I find this approach to be simple, clean, and more powerful than the original approach.

The things that you describe as "more powerful" are available in the DPT-S1 in exactly that fashion. Scribbled notes are listed with a preview of the page, highlights are listed by the text that was highlighted (sticky notes, and text notes, which are not available on the DPT-RP1 are also listed) and can be sorted and filtered, together with bookmarks.

I understand better now that you don't feel like there are features missing in the RP1, if you have never noticed the existence of those in the S1 (which I understood you owned and used). I don't think I have to change anything about my argument in this case.

[HarryT]

Originally Posted by LarryNYC

What do you mean? I looked at my order and it said returnable through July 22nd. I don't see any restrictions. I'd have to pay return shipping, I think. I'm a Prime customer.

Anyway, I'm keeping mine, I might order a second one.

The "Very random" reply was in response to the "When does the 'Please Wait' box pop up?" question, not the question about returns .

[LarryNYC]

Originally Posted by ManDay

It wasn't for no reason that I referred to the above video. Have a look at mark 1:50 onwards and particulary 2:10 - if I'm not utterly mistaken that's precisely what I described https://youtu.be/d9fPqkIhcl4?t=1m50s



The things that you describe as "more powerful" are available in the DPT-S1 in exactly that fashion. Scribbled notes are listed with a preview of the page, highlights are listed by the text that was highlighted (sticky notes, and text notes, which are not available on the DPT-RP1 are also listed) and can be sorted and filtered, together with bookmarks.

I understand better now that you don't feel like there are features missing in the RP1, if you have never noticed the existence of those in the S1 (which I understood you owned and used). I don't think I have to change anything about my argument in this case.

So, you invented all of those "facts" about Sony's development team based on the fact that they removed a bookmark button? Maybe they just realized that it was pretty much redundant. Do you have any firsthand knowledge of how this product was developed?

The software in the RP1 is different than on the S1, yes. Some features have been removed. I find the interface to be less cluttered and simpler. I'm able to adapt to the new device and feel that the positives far outweigh the negatives.

Have you tried one yet?

I have to say, as a programmer, I often find users to be insufferable. They want the world, they don't want to pay for it, they want it yesterday, they don't want anything changed or removed, and, yet, they want everything to be improved. This usually leads to a bloated code base that is full of redundant functionality that performs poorly.

I knew the owner of a virtual worlds company who received death threats when he removed some features in the virtual worlds! Honestly, Sony never promised us anything. I'm just happy the device exists, as a short while ago, I thought they were exiting the space such that I would be stuck with the S1, which was good, but not great.

[SnowMuffler]

Originally Posted by Avenger

I finally got an update from Amazon that mine will ship July 3. But I'm thinking about cancelling not because of the lack of direct cloud access, but the lack of document navigation options. Does anyone know if this item is returnable at Amazon? I know many electronics and tablets aren't unless the item is defective.

When did you order yours? I still haven't received an update on mine and it was early June. Sony reps have been responding to the Q&A on Amazon stating all pre-orders will be delivered before the end of the month. Sounds like that was a baseless claim without any facts.

[ManDay]

Originally Posted by LarryNYC

So, you invented all of those "facts" about Sony's development team based on the fact that they removed a bookmark button? Maybe they just realized that it was pretty much redundant. Do you have any firsthand knowledge of how this product was developed?

The software in the RP1 is different than on the S1, yes. Some features have been removed. I find the interface to be less cluttered and simpler. I'm able to adapt to the new device and feel that the positives far outweigh the negatives.

Have you tried one yet?

I have to say, as a programmer, I find users to often be insufferable. They want the world, they don't want to pay for it, they want it yesterday, they don't want anything changed or removed, and, yet, they want everything to be improved. This usually leads to a bloated code base that is full of redundant functionality that performs poorly.

I knew the owner of a virtual worlds company who received death threats when he removed some features in the virtual worlds! Honestly, Sony never promised us anything. I'm just happy the device exists, as a short while ago, I thought they were exiting the space.

Larry, when you're talking to me about bloat, you're figuratively preaching to choir. Even though I gathered you're not a Linux guy, as a developer, you certainly must have heard of the "UNIX philosophy": Do one job only, but do it well. Bloat is absolutely the last thing that I'd want. Surprisingly, I'm even d'accord with the DPT (S1, for that matter) not being in slightest sense open for development (not that one would have expected anything else of Sony, but I approve of their locking down a good software).

That said, you should be careful with a definition of "bloat" from your somewhat limited perspective. You have not used the device like scientists do. You don't know what it's like to heavily annotate a document with sometimes three, four "sticky notes" per page; what it's like to need to jump back and forth between formulae, theorems, and explanations, several times per page across a 400 pages book. You don't know the modus operandi of someone who carries this light device always, as a portable desktop, and works on it in a shared environment without having to rely on other means such as a computer.

You don't know the signficance of these features (and apparently didn't even know about some) but you are quick at calling them "bloat".

In a more practically analogy, if you happen to be a biker, you bought a new version of an expensive mountainbike with a sparkly new paint job and flashy geometry and poor derailleurs, cheap suspension. But you're only riding it on flat streets and now you go around telling mountain bikers that they can't appreciate what a fantastic bike it is...

Ironically, among those who didn't just have a grand lying around on the kitchen table, I think it were users like me for whom the value over price ratio of the S1 was high enough to invest in the device and who thus funded and made possible the continued development into a new version. A version which would be pushed for mainstream. And now you come along and support SONY's choice to cut those features which made the device valuable for us, claiming they were superfluous.

[LarryNYC]

ManDay,

I appreciate you taking the time to write up your use cases, and I can certainly see how some of the dropped features in the S1 were of great value to you. Sadly, I don't think there are enough users like you to fund the further development of the device, even when selling it for a grand. In the end, it will be the mass market that saves you, and us, and allows for the continued development of the product.

Sony seemed to figure out that the device would not be successful when aimed at a narrow niche, such as just lawyers. I bought my S1 from a composer who saw in it the ability to quickly write music. He moved on to the Surface Studio, an amazing 29" display that you can write on with a stylus.

I don't mean to sound so harsh and uncaring. I regret using the word "bloat". Still, I think users have to adapt when software changes. We live in this amazing world where there are so many ways to solve our problems.

I can only smile at what consumes us because I started programming on punched card machines and DECWriters, which, by the way, were terminals that printed on paper! Every new device I buy fills me with delight and astonishment. I remember when I had to use rocks, and now, look, just look at this beautiful thing!

I know you don't want to change your habit of not carrying around a laptop, but, we do indeed have the most amazing, small, lightweight laptops ever created, and ones that are a joy to use. Yes, they cost money, but you can get zero percent financing from Barclays at the Apple Store and figure out the monthly payment so that you don't pay them a dime of interest.

[Avenger]

Originally Posted by SnowMuffler

When did you order yours? I still haven't received an update on mine and it was early June. Sony reps have been responding to the Q&A on Amazon stating all pre-orders will be delivered before the end of the month. Sounds like that was a baseless claim without any facts.

I ordered mine June 9. Looking at the e-mail from Amazon again it says "to be delivered" July 1 so that misses the end of the month. Hmmm. I just took a look at the order on Amazon and it says "preparing for shipment" so it might come earlier I guess.

[HarryT]

Originally Posted by ManDay

That said, you should be careful with a definition of "bloat" from your somewhat limited perspective. You have not used the device like scientists do. You don't know what it's like to heavily annotate a document with sometimes three, four "sticky notes" per page; what it's like to need to jump back and forth between formulae, theorems, and explanations, several times per page across a 400 pages book. You don't know the modus operandi of someone who carries this light device always, as a portable desktop, and works on it in a shared environment without having to rely on other means such as a computer.

With the very greatest respect, ManDay, the usage you describe is hardly unique to scientists - it's common to any academic research. When I'm working on translations of my Egyptology texts on my iPad, that's precisely the way that I work: adding annotations (often several per line, never mind per page), and constantly flipping backwards and forwards between the original text and the copious reference material I'm using to translate it - hieroglyphic sign lists, dictionaries, grammar references, commentaries, etc. It's what differentiates research usage from simply "reading a book", as I might do on my eInk Kindle.

[Kumabjorn]

Originally Posted by LarryNYC

Sony seemed to figure out that the device would not be successful when aimed at a narrow niche, such as just lawyers.

You don't find it ironic then that the features Sony has removed, and which seems to irk some segments of potential customers, are exactly those features that lawyers might complain about for security reasons?

[ManDay]

Originally Posted by LarryNYC

ManDay,

I appreciate you taking the time to write up your use cases, and I can certainly see how some of the dropped features in the S1 were of great value to you. Sadly, I don't think there are enough users like you to fund the further development of the device, even when selling it for a grand. In the end, it will be the mass market that saves you, and us, and allows for the continued development of the product.

Sony seemed to figure out that the device would not be successful when aimed at a narrow niche, such as just lawyers. I bought my S1 from a composer who saw in it the ability to quickly write music. He moved on to the Surface Studio, an amazing 29" display that you can write on with a stylus.

I don't mean to sound so harsh and uncaring. I regret using the word "bloat". Still, I think users have to adapt when software changes. We live in this amazing world where there are so many ways to solve our problems.

I can only smile at what consumes us because I started programming on punched card machines and DECWriters, which, by the way, were terminals that printed on paper! Every new device I buy fills me with delight and astonishment. I remember when I had to use rocks, and now, look, just look at this beautiful thing!

I know you don't want to change your habit of not carrying around a laptop, but, we do indeed have the most amazing, small, lightweight laptops ever created, and ones that are a joy to use. Yes, they cost money, but you can get zero percent financing from Barclays at the Apple Store and figure out the monthly payment so that you don't pay them a dime of interest.

I appreciate your constructive attitude towards my issue with the sync capabilities of the device and also find your apt recount of technological progress delighting. The things and technologies that become possible are indeed amazing, if one thinks about it. I do, however, think, that there are a few fundamental aspects, very much like the UNIX philosophy, that contribute to a sustained and stable progress. And minimizing inter-dependencies, for instance dependencies on commercial, 3rd-party products like non-free operating systems, to name just one example, between technologies is in fact one.

I guess one could even find lighter, handier, but especially cheaper alternatives to a MacBook Air. But really, how realistic and how practical will it be for me to buy and carry another computer, just to be able to use a tablet? For obvious reasons, I can't simply ditch my current computer, which is my main work-horse, so I will have two computers. The second one only for the purpose of transferring files to the tablet. Doesn't that taste at least a little bit funny to you? Eventually, I need to establish means to synchronize not only between the DPT and the "light" computer, but also between the "light" computer and my main computer. That, in turn, may compromise security of my main computer and requires me to get acquainted with OS X/Windows. A whole rat-tail of complications is in the pipe, and for what? For Sony made a little choice.

I'm just trying to illustrate that I'm not reluctant to solve my problems with the device and indeed willing to adapt, as far as I can. But it might not be as easy for me as you may imagine. I readily admit that even within the exquisite circle of DPT buyers, I might count as a bit of a weirdo. But to a lesser extent, there are many people in a similar situation like me. Now we have to wait it out. I just hope they manage to add back at least the essentials in a non-interfering manner, so that eventually, we can also benefit from this new, awesome hardware and you, too, remain happy with a decluttered and easy-to-use interface.

[juegos]

Originally Posted by LarryNYC

I know you don't want to change your habit of not carrying around a laptop, but, we do indeed have the most amazing, small, lightweight laptops ever created, and ones that are a joy to use.

I think even Sony wouldn't go that far in defending their own product. There's no one who's going to buy a small laptop just to carry around with the DPT-RP1 to get documents on it.

Originally Posted by LarryNYC

Sony seemed to figure out that the device would not be successful when aimed at a narrow niche, such as just lawyers.

The predecessor DPT-S1 with internet access, browser, cloud download / sync option, drag-and-drop file transfer, was suitable for a much broader niche than the DPT-RP1. The latter now requires the Digital Paper App on a Windows/Mac pc, installed as a network driver in conjunction with a Sony certificate to enhance security (hence why people have trouble installing it). You can't even drag and drop files anymore from and to the device in the file explorer. Hence it is now a totally locked down device more in line with needs of very specific niches (particularly I can imagine law firms and certain branches of government).

Furthermore, if they wanted to broaden their niche they'd have developed basic features such as navigation features instead of devoting their resources to the Digital Paper App.

To me as an academic, despite the hardware improvements, the DPT-RP1 is a big step back.

[LarryNYC]

I'm just amazed that people can do all their work on an S1 without having access to a real computer. I guess Sony didn't think that untethered usage was a common use case.

My iPhone has a better browsing experience than the S1. I still think an iOS app would be better than adding in cloud and browsing capabilities to the RP1.

Apple computers are of high quality. I got five years use out of my MacBook Pro and my wife will get another five years out of it now that I have upgraded. I'm not interested in some junky laptop. You get what you pay for in this world.

[John F]

If you have a reflowable PDF, can you change the font size on the RP1?

[terekkincaid]

Originally Posted by John F

If you have a reflowable PDF, can you change the font size on the RP1?

No, it just appears as if you printed it out