Sony's new 13.3" digital paper DPTRP1 released

[Kumabjorn]

Originally Posted by fgdas

Sony could very easily release Android and iOS apps to sync phone folders same way as on computer but they decided against...

I'm curious, how do you know that?
I was thinking that this is a great app opportunity for some creative person, but if Sony will release a free app within a year or so the incentive to develop it independently is pretty much a nonstarter. However, if Sony has taken an active decision to not develop Android and iOS apps then there might be some hope.

[terekkincaid]

Originally Posted by Kumabjorn

I'm curious, how do you know that?
I was thinking that this is a great app opportunity for some creative person, but if Sony will release a free app within a year or so the incentive to develop it independently is pretty much a nonstarter. However, if Sony has taken an active decision to not develop Android and iOS apps then there might be some hope.

When the Digital Paper app installs, it installs a certificate to your computer as well. As has been stated before, the device connects to your computer through networking protocols, even when plugged in via USB (it acts as a USB ethernet device).

Unless an app developer got the certificate from Sony, they'd never be able to get it to communicate with the device.

I guess the idea is that only computers authorized by the user can send files to the device, end of story. The device will not accept outside data from anything other than an approved computer.

This version of the digital paper is apparently designed to be much more secure, probably something the lawyers using the device asked for. There's no way to play around with the content on the device if you're not the authorized user (no swapping altered versions of contracts, etc). The lack of direct internet connection makes it a very secure device. That's why there's no browser, direct cloud syncing, etc.

That still doesn't explain the lack of table of contents support.....

[Kumabjorn]

Thank you for a very thorough explanation. I must have missed the part with a Sony certificate. So jailbreaking and app development is a non-issue then.

[ManDay]

Originally Posted by LarryNYC

You know what Lincoln said:

"You can please some of the people some of the time, all of the people some of the time, some of the people all of the time, but you can never please all of the people all of the time."

I think that's just a shibboleth as an excuse. The removal of features (e.g. browser, workspaces), the addition of dependencies (e.g. a Windows computer), and the general infeasibility for the intended purpose (e.g. lack of basic navigation functionality) cannot reasonably be considered in the interest of anyone. With any sense for realism one must come to acknowledge that in this case, it was no deliberate decision either, but an undesired consequence of re-developing the software from scratch (supposedly by a different team, from the looks of it).

Even though we seem to disagree in our taste for features, I think we even agree that in sum, the RP1 has deteriorated from the S1 w.r.t. its mere amount of features. And, though again probably a matter of taste, I think you would also agree that it didn't gain much in usability (even without the lack of navigation).

It would indeed have been possible to "please all the people, some time", if Sony had kept the existing software and added the much desired features such as side-by-side documents, et cetera. This current software failure is owing to nothing but corporate mismanagement, premature release, deviating design specs, not due to a difference in tastes.

Since the S1 and the RP1 cannot replace laptop computers, how realistic is it to think that people are going to travel with just this eInk tablet? I see laptops on the train all the time. If I'm traveling for business, I have to bring my laptop.

Difference in habits, again. But objectively, you will have to admit that just because the additional dependency on a computer is a No-Op for you, because you carry your computer always with you, that doesn't make it any less of a disadvantage for people who don't. On the other hand, it's an advantage for no one. From my vantage point (academia, research) the previous device was self-sufficient, the current one isn't. It's still usable, but less fit for the serious purpose of working on it. I didn't have to bring a computer, which was a big plus. Now I have to carry a whole computer with me to get the previous, basic functionality? That's a definite step backwards, and a serious one for many people at that.

The Windows/Mac Digital Paper App is quite simple and works well. When you turn on the RP1, the app senses that and connects to it. It then synchronizes new content based on your synch settings.

Fantastic for you. But few natural or computer scientists use Windows. Most use Linux and a good many of them appreciate a sleek and open-source system. This device was supposedly aimed at the scientific community as well, not only the "business traveler". Now where does that leave "us"?

Resolution, contrast, and performance are important features on any device, even if you don't think so.

Sure they are. But even so, other features become even more important as far as actual work efficiency is concerned.

[LarryNYC]

As a scientist, can't you find any kindness in your heart for what Sony has accomplished? No, you'd rather whinge, as the Brits say.

As a tool for making handwritten notes, the RP1 is almost magical. I've been buying devices to try to solve this problem for about twenty five years and this one is a delight to use. I remember how bad all of those old devices were and just smile at how well this device works.

You have the device with the features you want, the S1. Sony doesn't have to maintain a bloated and poorly functioning feature set if it costs them time and money and few people use those features anyway, as just about everyone has admitted.

You could solve your problems by getting a tiny laptop, a MacBook Air, another marvel of our age. You left off OS X in your comments, and continue to insist that people need to buy a Windows machine, which is not true.

Sony supports the two dominant operating systems, give their programmers a break. Honestly, how many people don't already have a computer that runs one of those operating systems? Very few is the answer.

Leave off your moody brooding about Linux, it's a success for some small user population and a failure for a much larger user population.

Even Alan Kay, who basically invented personal computing while at Xerox PARC, travels the world with a little MacBook Air and doesn't seem to whine that his visions were never fully realized on that device, which they were not, of course.

It would be cool if Sony produced an iOS version of the digital paper app. That would let you go on the road without a bigger computer, wouldn't it? I'd rather browse on my iPhone than the RP1, and beaming PDFs to the RP1 would be slick. Perhaps Sony already tipped their hand by calling their software the Digital Paper App, a funny name for a piece of desktop software. And, yes, Android too, but that operating system is such a mess due to segmentation.

[HarryT]

Larry - a question for you, if I may?

The reason that, after years of experimenting, I've settled on the "GoodReader" app on my iPad Pro as the perfect PDF reader for me is its superb support for multi-document reading. I'm an (amateur) Egyptologist, and when I'm working on my Egyptian texts on my iPad I need to have several documents open at once (the text I'm working on, and a range of different reference works such as a dictionary, hieroglyphic sign list, grammar book, etc) and rapidly flip between them. GoodReader has a "tabbed" user interface which makes working with multiple documents a breeze - each tab can display a different document, or different parts of the same document.

How good is the Sony when it comes to working with multiple documents? It's an essential requirement for academic research.

Thanks!

[ManDay]

Originally Posted by LarryNYC

As a scientist, can't you find any kindness in your heart for what Sony has accomplished? No, you'd rather whinge, as the Brits say.

"A heart for Sony"? If it weren't for your tone of voice I'd be inclined to take this as fairly good, sarcastic joke.

In my statements, there is no heart nor lack there of involved. I consistute: The DPT RP1 has objectively superior hardware, has objectively inferior software, and is objectively unfit for the job that its predecessor fulfilled for me and many others, almost excellently.

As a tool for making handwritten notes, the RP1 is almost magical. I've been buying devices to try to solve this problem for about twenty five years and this one is a delight to use. I remember how bad all of those old devices were and just smile at how well this device works.

As a table mat, the RP1 is also magical. You think I'm being polemic? I probably am, given that I perceive what I consider a willful effort of ingnorance in your argumentation. Speaking for those who are unsatisfied with the product: we know what we need, we know what we pay, and we know what we expect. I do not comprehend your intention to "defend" the RP1 against those who criticise it, by belittling their requirements, or worse, implying their reluctance to problem-solving ("why don't you get a MacBook Air [you lazy ...]").

I have no emotional issue involved with the perceived insufficiencies of the RP1. What annoys me, though, is your denying other people's right to be unsatisfied with the product and utter their complaints, in the manner that we entitle you to your opinion and to being satisfied with what you bought.

All this is made worse by your generalising ("very few people don't have Windows or OS X [always around]") and condescending ("leave off your moody brooding about Linux", "you could solve your problems") attitude, and overall lack of knowledge ("Sony has to maintain [the webbrowser]", which is based on WebkitQT and required no to negligible maintanance on Sony's side).

I've nothing else to add w.r.t. the way in which you're treating other people's different opinions in this discussion, other than if anyone is supposedly trying to make PR like you insinuated about a fellow member further up, it should be you. For I can not think of any other reason that you would have for such acting.

As for the RP1, but I already said that, I will be happy with the device if Sony returns at least proper navigation tools, autonomous internet access and backed storage (WebDAV, SMB or similar) and probably some of the very useful annotation features that seem to have been removed, too. For the time being, the RP1 seems overpriced and much inferior to the S1 for people like me, since the overall workflow has deteriorated despite the major improvements to the hardware.

[LarryNYC]

Originally Posted by HarryT

Larry - a question for you, if I may?

The reason that, after years of experimenting, I've settled on the "GoodReader" app on my iPad Pro as the perfect PDF reader for me is its superb support for multi-document reading. I'm an (amateur) Egyptologist, and when I'm working on my Egyptian texts on my iPad I need to have several documents open at once (the text I'm working on, and a range of different reference works such as a dictionary, hieroglyphic sign list, grammar book, etc) and rapidly flip between them. GoodReader has a "tabbed" user interface which makes working with multiple documents a breeze - each tab can display a different document, or different parts of the same document.

How good is the Sony when it comes to working with multiple documents? It's an essential requirement for academic research.

Thanks!

Well, if you're happy with the iPad Pro then by all means stick with it. On the RP1, you can open up different PDFs in a Two Page Spread mode, you can see that in the video review that was posted a little while ago. You can switch documents by pulling up the menu. Is it better than what you have? I don't know.

Are you using the Apple Pencil a lot in your work?

Do you feel there are some limitations of the iPad Pro that would be fixed by the RP1? Size? Weight? Battery life? Writing Experience? iPad Pro do you own?

Is the world of Egyptian texts mainly a monochrome world? Do you need color? ;-)

[LarryNYC]

Originally Posted by ManDay

"A heart for Sony"? If it weren't for your tone of voice I'd be inclined to take this as fairly good, sarcastic joke.

In my statements, there is no heart nor lack there of involved. I consistute: The DPT RP1 has objectively superior hardware, has objectively inferior software, and is objectively unfit for the job that its predecessor fulfilled for me and many others, almost excellently.



As a table mat, the RP1 is also magical. You think I'm being polemic? I probably am, given that I perceive what I consider a willful effort of ingnorance in your argumentation. Speaking for those who are unsatisfied with the product: we know what we need, we know what we pay, and we know what we expect. I do not comprehend your intention to "defend" the RP1 against those who criticise it, by belittling their requirements, or worse, implying their reluctance to problem-solving ("why don't you get a MacBook Air [you lazy ...]").

I have no emotional issue involved with the perceived insufficiencies of the RP1. What annoys me, though, is your denying other people's right to be unsatisfied with the product and utter their complaints, in the manner that we entitle you to your opinion and to being satisfied with what you bought.

All this is made worse by your generalising ("very few people don't have Windows or OS X [always around]") and condescending ("leave off your moody brooding about Linux", "you could solve your problems") attitude, and overall lack of knowledge ("Sony has to maintain [the webbrowser]", which is based on WebkitQT and required no to negligible maintanance on Sony's side).

I've nothing else to add w.r.t. the way in which you're treating other people's different opinions in this discussion, other than if anyone is supposedly trying to make PR like you insinuated about a fellow member further up, it should be you. For I can not think of any other reason that you would have for such acting.

As for the RP1, but I already said that, I will be happy with the device if Sony returns at least proper navigation tools, autonomous internet access and backed storage (WebDAV, SMB or similar) and probably some of the very useful annotation features that seem to have been removed, too. For the time being, the RP1 seems overpriced and much inferior to the S1 for people like me, since the overall workflow has deteriorated despite the major improvements to the hardware.

Far be it for me to deny anyone the right to be dissatisfied or to voice their opinions about what they see as the shortcomings of the device. I have only tried to point out that there are relatively simple ways to solve your problems and that the device is not as bad as you make it out to be, from my experience using one for the last four days.

Perhaps Sony achieved some of the performance improvements in the RP1 by writing an operating system from scratch or using something else, instead of relying on Android, a system that comes with many problems, and was probably a source of some of the sluggishness seen on the S1.

Since I don't believe you're a member of the Sony development team, I don't think you actually know what it would take to maintain the old code base.

I don't find the new software to be that much different than the old software, to be honest. I'm all synced up to my Box.com folders through the Digital Paper App. The new "Print - Send to Digital Paper" option is far easier than moving files into Box or Dropbox. Also, I'd rather have the new Synch capability than having to do the old clunky Send process. If you were a fan of the old web browser then I guess you have a lot more patience than I do.

You have the S1 to tide you other until we see what new features are added into the RP1.

For someone who claims to have no emotional issue with regards to the RP1, you seem to talk about your happiness a lot. When are all users ever made happy by the release of any hardware or software product? Never, back to Lincoln. Your brooding was a reference to James Joyce, did you pick up on that one? ;-)

Sometimes progress can only be made by angering users and removing features that perform poorly or don't fit the nature of the device. Of course you don't agree, that's fine, I don't expect you to. I think the software is cleaner and more streamlined, and easier to use than the software on the S1.

[HarryT]

Originally Posted by LarryNYC

Well, if you're happy with the iPad Pro then by all means stick with it. On the RP1, you can open up different PDFs in a Two Page Spread mode, you can see that in the video review that was posted a little while ago. You can switch documents by pulling up the menu. Is it better than what you have? I don't know.

Are you using the Apple Pencil a lot in your work?

Do you feel there are some limitations of the iPad Pro that would be fixed by the RP1? Size? Weight? Battery life? Writing Experience? iPad Pro do you own?

Is the world of Egyptian texts mainly a monochrome world? Do you need color? ;-)

The reason I ask, Larry, is that I'm always interested in looking for potentially better work environments for doing something I spend so much time doing. I am very happy with my iPad Pro, but if the Sony offers a better solution it's something I'd be interested in. However, efficient working with multiple open documents is something that's critical to me, so this is the aspect of the Sony that interests me most.

The overwhelming majority of the documents I work with are black and white, so no issues there.

Thanks for your kind response - very helpful.

[j.p.s]

Originally Posted by HarryT

The device mounts as a USB mass storage device (i.e. an external drive) and you can add any content you wish simply by copying files to that drive. I'm afraid I really don't see how this is any more or less restrictive than using a memory card. It does not require the use of any special software like iTunes.

http://www.phys.hawaii.edu/~kcroker/sonydps/

which looks very credible, says this model has dropped USB mass storage support.

[HarryT]

Originally Posted by j.p.s

http://www.phys.hawaii.edu/~kcroker/sonydps/

which looks very credible, says this model has dropped USB mass storage support.

That (ancient) post of mine you quoted was talking about the previous model. Yes, we all know that you have to use an app with the RP1 - it's what we've been talking about for days, now.

[j.p.s]

Originally Posted by HarryT

That (ancient) post of mine you quoted was talking about the previous model. Yes, we all know that you have to use an app with the RP1 - it's what we've been talking about for days, now.

Sorry, I just spent 3 days reading the Onyx Boox Max thread and am only 1/3 through this one. But your post was a reply to a post complaining that this model has dropped the SD card slot. The old model supporting USB Mass Storage does not mitigate this model not having an SD card slot.

But, I really do apologize for not reading all the way through before replying. I did read several pages, then took the gamble.

[SnowMuffler]

Still haven't received an update on my Amazon order other than for them to say that they will provide a better estimate later. Hopefully, based on some of the Q&A I've seen on the product page, Sony really does have all pre-orders delivered before the end of the month.

Shortly after the 20th I placed an order for the case separately. I did receive an update on that. My date range is anywhere from July 7th to August 4th. WTF.

[juegos]

So what are the alternatives to the current state of the DPT-RP1?

1. Wait for software updates for the DPT-RP1. Unlikely given that the software of the predecessor DPT-S1 has remained virtually similar to when the device came out. Also unlikely given that Sony already sent out the DPT-RP1 prototype to the the FCC in July 2016. From then onwards, Sony's DPT-RP1 software team devoted its resources almost solely to killing features of the DPT S1 (direct cloud download/sync option, browser, virtual keyboard, and so on) and developing the Digital Paper App for Windows/Mac as the only way to get documents on the device (secured by a Sony certificate). The device is now totally locked down - internet access is out of the question - and the software team in more than a year hasn't spent any time on navigation features, table of contents and other features that have been industry standards for years.

2. Buy its predecessor DPT-S1. Sony doesn't sell it anymore but the price for second-hand devices has gone down greatly since DPT-RP1's release and is now slightly lower than the DPT-RP1 on Amazon/Ebay. It has inferior hardware (less sharp resolution, slower cpu/page turning and less responsive stylus) but superior software with direct cloud download option, internet access with wifi, browser, virtual keyboard (e.g. to fill in forms) and so on.

3. Buy an eInk tablet from another company. It's a blessing that Sony has no monopoly in this market. Contenders are the Good E-Reader (wouldn't recommend this, tons of bad stories of people not getting their device, crowdfunded), the Onyx Boox Max Carta (similar hardware but from what I read more of a multi purpose device - software is thus much less optimized for PDF reading and writing) and the reMarkable tablet that's released soon.

The reMarkable tablet really stands out here, their team has been working on the device for years and the story of how they got to developing the device is inspiring. You can read Harvard's Business School case study on them here (unfortunately you have to pay for it).

The fact that Harvard picked them for a study gives them a lot of credibility as they don't pick random startups. The latest prototype of their device has also been reviewed by the BBC, The Verge, Techcrunch and so on. Here is the latest video of the device, the first batch of devices is sent out to buyers in August:



Pros: has internet access, direct cloud download/syncing, email option, support for epub, virtual keyboard, navigation features, and so on - basically all features that are lacking in the DPT-RP1. Hardware-wise it's similar to the DPT-RP1. Also seems to have a very active, enthusiastic and responsive software team (their Facebook group is very active and replies within a day to inquiries). It is also much cheaper than the DPT-RP1 ($479 at the moment when pre ordering versus $699 for the DPT-RP1).

Cons: my main concern with the reMarkable is that the screen size is 10.3 rather than the DPT-RP1's 13.3. The latter is perfect for A4 - the former might be if there is a good auto-cropping feature that takes out the white margins on the sides and top/bottom of documents (however, without these margins, you have less space to write notes down). I am still on the fench regarding this.

Another option is to wait for new Onyx releases (the Onyx Note particularly) but I am not fully updated on this.

4. Use paper for now.