The Vent and Rant Thread

[DMcCunney]

Originally Posted by CRussel

Nope. I've been doing this for >25 years, and I still need an editor. Not as badly as the old days, but still need an editor. And for technical books/documents, you NEED a tech editor. Preferably one who is _very_, meticulous and fussy.

Yep. Same thing with writing code. You are too close to it, and miss stuff. Guaranteed, you will be scratching your head and muttering curses because your latest revision fails to compile, and a colleague will look for thirty seconds and say "You missed putting in a statement terminator, here..." and leave you kicking yourself.

For that matter, external eyes when proofing prose are critical. Again, you're too close, and you know what it's supposed to say. Your mind will automatically correct what you read, and you won't see the error.
______
Dennis

[Cinisajoy]

And some of us could sometimes use a good editor for forum posts. Or I know I could.

Oh and instead of rounded corners can I just have smileys in every corner?

[wodin]

Originally Posted by CRussel

Nope. I've been doing this for >25 years, and I still need an editor. Not as badly as the old days, but still need an editor. And for technical books/documents, you NEED a tech editor. Preferably one who is _very_, meticulous and fussy.

Indeed, I'm not an author but I do write many memos. After a certain threshold of importance I will not press the send button without a second and sometimes third opinion of format, content, grammar, and tact.

[Dazrin]

Originally Posted by wodin

Indeed, I'm not an author but I do write many memos. After a certain threshold of importance I will not press the send button without a second and sometimes third opinion of format, content, grammar, and tact.

I've known two people who were let go because they lacked that last one.

[PandathePanda]

me hath meeting with the boss tomorrow, and is not looking forward to it. I've gotten her to make this meeting, normally she'll send a whattsapp message to the work group she created. Today she had another of this messages, knowing we won't object like last year (she tried something similar last year, we asked for proof and she scurried off angrily and did nothing). Messaged her back trying to work out what she means, as her messages doesn't mean a lot, and she asked me if I'm trying to be funny.

[Hitch]

Originally Posted by PandathePanda

me hath meeting with the boss tomorrow, and is not looking forward to it. I've gotten her to make this meeting, normally she'll send a whattsapp message to the work group she created. Today she had another of this messages, knowing we won't object like last year (she tried something similar last year, we asked for proof and she scurried off angrily and did nothing). Messaged her back trying to work out what she means, as her messages doesn't mean a lot, and she asked me if I'm trying to be funny.

I'm sorry--not following you. She tried something similar to what, last year, and of what did you and your fellows request proof? Proof of what?

I'm confused.

Hitch

[Rumpelteazer]

My uncle took care of my grandmother's bookkeeping. For years we have been trying to get our hands on it, because we don't trust him. He has been refusing. He did send the solicitor who deals with the inheritance/will some papers and they send it to us. From those papers it looks like our suspicions were right.

However, he finally agrees to hand over copies of the bookkeeping. But, since there are a lot of papers he wants fifty cents per copy and ninety euros per hour for the copying. He estimates the total cost will add up to €1500.

I suspect he does this to discourage us from taking him up on his offer. Or he wants the money to pay his lawyer (my father and aunt don't want my grandmother's estate to pay for his legal costs).

He made the offer to the solicitor, who has been trying to get the papers for us, a while ago. But they didn't let us know until we called to ask something yesterday. They didn't think we would agree with it and didn't consider it to be a real offer.

[PandathePanda]

Originally Posted by Hitch

I'm sorry--not following you. She tried something similar to what, last year, and of what did you and your fellows request proof? Proof of what?

I'm confused.

Hitch

she claimed there was always money short on the shifts we work, we asked for proof, and she didn't bother us with this allegation, today's meeting she did try something similar but from another angle, but in the end she did listen to our side more this time than last

[Hitch]

Originally Posted by PandathePanda

she claimed there was always money short on the shifts we work, we asked for proof, and she didn't bother us with this allegation, today's meeting she did try something similar but from another angle, but in the end she did listen to our side more this time than last

Ho! Well, that's a very serious allegation, and you should at the LEAST be documenting this, very closely. Hell, if I were you, I'd be taping these meetings. (Or, ask her if it's okay for you to tape them--I suspect that her allegations would POOF.)

That's not something you should mess with. That's theft, and it's criminal, not just some HR issue. I'd be rather careful around it, Hell, who knows--maybe SHE is pilfering, and accusing you guys to cover it up.

Hitch

[Hitch]

Originally Posted by Rumpelteazer

My uncle took care of my grandmother's bookkeeping. For years we have been trying to get our hands on it, because we don't trust him. He has been refusing. He did send the solicitor who deals with the inheritance/will some papers and they send it to us. From those papers it looks like our suspicions were right.

However, he finally agrees to hand over copies of the bookkeeping. But, since there are a lot of papers he wants fifty cents per copy and ninety euros per hour for the copying. He estimates the total cost will add up to €1500.

I suspect he does this to discourage us from taking him up on his offer. Or he wants the money to pay his lawyer (my father and aunt don't want my grandmother's estate to pay for his legal costs).

He made the offer to the solicitor, who has been trying to get the papers for us, a while ago. But they didn't let us know until we called to ask something yesterday. They didn't think we would agree with it and didn't consider it to be a real offer.

Well, unfortunately, you are going to be stuck for some cost. In US law, they are, absolutely, entitled to charge, although, typically, case law and the courts regulate what those charges may be, how much can be charged (per page, etc.). I seriously doubt that even in the EuroZone, it's $0.50/page PLUS 90E per hour. That's daft.

I would suggest that your legal counsel speak to his. It's absurd for the Unk (In my brother in law's family, "uncles" are referred to as "The Unks," for a variety of horror-story reasons...) to hold you hostage. Nonetheless, you will be out some shekels.

This is one of the many reasons that in the olden days, I'd counsel folks who were ranting/raving about lawsuits that unless they had $50K USD to spend, BEFORE they got to the door of the courtroom, in discovery and other pre-trial expenses, not to bother suing.

Spoiler:

TV and Movies have given people a wholly distorted view of lawsuits, like some white knight will descend from heaven on his Legal Charger and eat all these costs, while pursuing the Holy Grail of Righteousness and legal decrees. (I'm not saying that to you, Rumple, seriously--you guys have a legit reason to sort this out.).

Lawsuits are bloody expensive. If the only pre-trial cost you have, other than your legal fees, is this bit of discovery, I'd be thrilled for you.

ALSO: never take discovery direct from The Unk. It MUST go through his lawfirm. That costs HIM money, firstly (turnabout is fair play), but the purpose for that is THEIR (the lawfirm's or lawyer's) representation and warranty that they've given you EVERYTHING, pursuant to the court's order or agreement between the parties, etc. Even if The Unk does the copying, presumably to save himself money, make damned sure that his legal rep is on the hook, for checking it and warranting that you have ALL of it. Otherwise, you are paying for (possibly) very expensive lies.

HTH.

Hitch

[Rumpelteazer]

Originally Posted by Hitch

Well, unfortunately, you are going to be stuck for some cost. In US law, they are, absolutely, entitled to charge, although, typically, case law and the courts regulate what those charges may be, how much can be charged (per page, etc.). I seriously doubt that even in the EuroZone, it's $0.50/page PLUS 90E per hour. That's daft.

I would suggest that your legal counsel speak to his. It's absurd for the Unk (In my brother in law's family, "uncles" are referred to as "The Unks," for a variety of horror-story reasons...) to hold you hostage. Nonetheless, you will be out some shekels.

This is one of the many reasons that in the olden days, I'd counsel folks who were ranting/raving about lawsuits that unless they had $50K USD to spend, BEFORE they got to the door of the courtroom, in discovery and other pre-trial expenses, not to bother suing.

We know how expensive court cases can be. We've been through several rounds in the last four years and there are still several active.

We don't mind paying for the copying and the shipping, but the €1500 is beyond silly. My father called the solicitor and offered to have my uncle send in the papers to the solicitor and that my father and aunt will go there to copy/scan all the papers. However, the solicitor wanted to have one last go at trying to get my uncle to be reasonable and will invite him to the office (my uncle will probably claim travel expenses for the trip ), have him take the paperwork with him and try to reason with him. We already know that this won't work.

Originally Posted by Hitch

Lawsuits are bloody expensive. If the only pre-trial cost you have, other than your legal fees, is this bit of discovery, I'd be thrilled for you.

ALSO: never take discovery direct from The Unk. It MUST go through his lawfirm. That costs HIM money, firstly (turnabout is fair play), but the purpose for that is THEIR (the lawfirm's or lawyer's) representation and warranty that they've given you EVERYTHING, pursuant to the court's order or agreement between the parties, etc. Even if The Unk does the copying, presumably to save himself money, make damned sure that his legal rep is on the hook, for checking it and warranting that you have ALL of it. Otherwise, you are paying for (possibly) very expensive lies.

HTH.

As I've said we've been trying to get our hands on the bookkeeping for years. When my grandmother died those papers became property of all the heirs, so he should share them. We've considered staring another lawsuit to get the papers, but according to our lawyer it would most likely be a waste of money. Because you can't force someone to hand over the evidence that he/she did something illegal. And we're sure he did mess about with my grandmother money.

We'll see where it ends, but I'm sure my uncle's quote of €1500 is because he knows he can't refuse to hand over the papers but he wants to stop it by asking so much money for copying it.

[Blossom]

Need to get this off my chest.

I HATE CANCER! I HATE CANCER! I HATE CANCER! I HATE IT! I HATE IT!
I HATE IT! *sobs*



Sent from my XT1528

[Hitch]

Originally Posted by Rumpelteazer

We know how expensive court cases can be. We've been through several rounds in the last four years and there are still several active.

We don't mind paying for the copying and the shipping, but the €1500 is beyond silly. My father called the solicitor and offered to have my uncle send in the papers to the solicitor and that my father and aunt will go there to copy/scan all the papers. However, the solicitor wanted to have one last go at trying to get my uncle to be reasonable and will invite him to the office (my uncle will probably claim travel expenses for the trip ), have him take the paperwork with him and try to reason with him. We already know that this won't work.

Ain't family fun? BTDT. I feel for you, I do.

As I've said we've been trying to get our hands on the bookkeeping for years. When my grandmother died those papers became property of all the heirs, so he should share them. We've considered staring another lawsuit to get the papers, but according to our lawyer, it would most likely be a waste of money. Because you can't force someone to hand over the evidence that he/she did something illegal.

Well, actually--that's what discovery IS. You are requiring them (and they you, in the usual course of things, albeit apparently not in this case) to turn over all their paperwork, documents, etc., specifically for the purpose of using that paperwork to indeed, prove that he did something illegal. Otherwise, there's no point in doing discovery. What does your lawyer say that the discovery is for, if not to prove your case? Which is, that The Unk did something illegal?

I have to disagree rather strenuously with your lawyer, there, but, then again, you live in Europe, and y'all have a different legal system. In the US, I'd be a bit dismayed to hear a lawyer say that.

And we're sure he did mess about with my grandmother money.

Right. The aforementioned wrongdoing, of which, hopefully, the discovery will reveal said wrongdoing. Otherwise, as I said--why do it in the first place? (As you can tell, your lawyer's comment really blew my mind.)

We'll see where it ends, but I'm sure my uncle's quote of €1500 is because he knows he can't refuse to hand over the papers but he wants to stop it by asking so much money for copying it.

Well, there's always the outrageous idea of just having The Unk take it to a regular copyshop, and getting a quote for the work. We did that several times during contentious discoveries, when one side or the other got their knickers in a twist over copying costs and the like. A copyshop quote always seems to quell the debate over the costs of the copying. High, low, or indifferent--at least a professional who's independent priced it.

I really do hope for your sake that The Unk caves in, sooner rather than later. Lawsuits amongst family always cause more damage than they solve. I mean, obviously, not every. damned. time., but often enough.

Hang in there, Rumple.

Hitch

[Rumpelteazer]

Originally Posted by Hitch

Well, there's always the outrageous idea of just having The Unk take it to a regular copyshop, and getting a quote for the work. We did that several times during contentious discoveries, when one side or the other got their knickers in a twist over copying costs and the like. A copyshop quote always seems to quell the debate over the costs of the copying. High, low, or indifferent--at least a professional who's independent priced it.

We already looked at prices to get things copied. Depending on the number of pages it's between 5 and 10 cents per page if you do it yourself at one of our local copyshops. He probably doesn't want to hand over the paper and have an employee do it due to sensitivity and privacy concerns.

Originally Posted by Hitch

I really do hope for your sake that The Unk caves in, sooner rather than later. Lawsuits amongst family always cause more damage than they solve. I mean, obviously, not every. damned. time., but often enough.

Hang in there, Rumple.

Hitch

He won't. We've seen it with his divorce and with the problems he had with a gardener, which eventually resulted in the break up between him and his girlfriend. He believes he's right and won't back down until he is made to by a judge.

The judge overseeing his curatorship isn't helpful. We've pointed out irregularities and problems and she doesn't want to do anything because of ongoing courtcases she doesn't want to influence. So he gets away with things he legally shouldn't get away with.

There is a small light at the end of the tunnel now, but who knows how long it'll take. And the family, well, when everything is over we don't want to have anything to do with my uncle.

[PandathePanda]

Originally Posted by Blossom

Need to get this off my chest.

I HATE CANCER! I HATE CANCER! I HATE CANCER! I HATE IT! I HATE IT!
I HATE IT! *sobs*



Sent from my XT1528

Cancer sux, My mom is going for her second last chemotherapy treatment this coming week, after breast cancer and had to have a double mastectomy, and my dad has Carcinoid and has gone over to full Carcinoid syndrome, and the doctors has told him there is nothing they can do anymore