Amazon Echo Club

Apple has a history of putting form over function on occasion, but the HomePod is really butt ugly IMO! Okay, more like boring, but still...

I'm waiting for A Star Trek like small device I can pin to my shirt and use for a home assistant. Until some company makes one of those that actually works well, I think I'll just use my dusty Echo and Dot.

[pdurrant]

Originally Posted by jswinden

Yep, no way we will ever create AI that is smarter than we are. They cannot even get Alexa or any of the other voice recognition services to work right yet.

[1780s]No way will we ever create steamboats that are better than wagons or horse-pulled canal boats

[1840s]No way will we ever have domestic refrigeration that's better than iceboxes

[1910s]No way will we ever create aircraft that can take the place of the Atlantic Liners

[1960s]No way will we ever make computers useful for the ordinary person.

[booklover6]

Thanks for the tip on the Echo/Dot voice remote. I ordered one for my Dot.

Wish I could find a spare for the Fire TV for that price.

Originally Posted by pdurrant

[1780s]No way will we ever create steamboats that are better than wagons or horse-pulled canal boats

[1840s]No way will we ever have domestic refrigeration that's better than iceboxes

[1910s]No way will we ever create aircraft that can take the place of the Atlantic Liners

[1960s]No way will we ever make computers useful for the ordinary person.

Hmmm, let us see. It took Mother Nature nearly 4 billion years to develop life on earth from a single cell organism to modern humans. It took Mother Nature tens of millions of years to develop mammals from tiny little critters trying to avoid dinosaurs into modern humans. It took Mother Nature about 200,000 years to develop the modern humans into what we are today. (She really needs to keep working on us though as we are full of flaws.) It took Mother Nature about 150,000 years to teach modern humans (homo sapiens) how to be farmers and herders. It took Mother nature about 194,000 years to teach modern humans how to write down their words in a written language. It took Mother Nature nearly 200,000 years to teach modern humans that big, bad thunderstorms are not pissed off evil spirits but are in fact a weather occurrence called a mesocyclone. Okay, so we modern humans call ourselves homo sapiens and take great pride in how far we have developed, especially over the past few hundred years. But we are really little more than homo dumba$$ses. Our history is literally written in our own blood, we carelessly destroy other species, the environment, and even ourselves. Can we develop autonomous AI as smart as we are? Maybe, if we survive long enough. Will we survive long enough? I doubt it. We are way past due Mother Nature pressing the RESET button on us before we destroy everything, including her. And even if Mother Nature doesn't hit the RESET button, the Universe might hit for her. From a realistic perspective, I just don't see modern humans surviving long enough into the future to accomplish great things like cure cancer and diabetes, much less invent autonomous AI that is as smart as we are, which really isn't as smart as we like to think.

[ApK]

...or maybe it's just you.

Originally Posted by ApK

...or maybe it's just you.

A cheap shot taken by someone who apparently cannot rationally contemplate the true historical account of and state of humanity.

[Keslynn]

Originally Posted by jswinden

A cheap shot taken by someone who apparently cannot rationally contemplate the true historical account of and state of humanity.

Some people might not agree with your opinion about the "true historical account of and state of humanity" and that's fine! Some people enjoy their Amazon devices most of the time. That's fine too!

Not everyone has to agree with you, and people who don't agree with you aren't wrong or irrational.

Remember: we're talking about tech toys here. This is not life and death.

To get back on topic, I totally agree that HomePod looks like yarn. I think it's more intended as a Sonos replacement with Echo/Home capabilities. I think that people who are looking for a smart speaker will likely go for Echo or Home. Someone looking for a Sonos might want the extra value of Siri capabilities.

Okay, I've been told I was too abrasive for my reply to Apple being a closed garden. For that I apologize. I guess I'm still too entrenched in academia wherein that is a normal type of response. But I can see where it might not be considered appropriate in this forum. So again, my apologies.

Here is my kinder and gentler reply to the walled garden metaphor. Take it as you will, believe how you want, but I see the metaphor as being incorrect, and here is why.

Apple and Google pretty much have the same apps available to their customers. Apple filters out bad developers, developers who abandon apps, apps that can cause issues or trick customers out of money, apps so badly written that they are a ripoff, etc. IMO that is good as it protects the customers. Google doesn't seem to filter much, and IMO that is a bad thing as you can easily get malicious apps. Google doesn't seem to care much about their customers security. Amazon, well they have their own store separated from the Android one, they do seem to do some filtering to protect customers. I see no walled gardens among any of these companies though, at least as far as app availability goes. Apple is very protective, Amazon a little protective, and Google not so much, but essentially you can run the same apps on all three companies devices.

What about 3rd party services. You can run Netflix, Hulu, various TV apps, Pandora, Spotify, etc. on all three companies devices. No walled garden there either. Amazon and Apple both have their own music service, but both allow competition. Not sure if Google has a music service.

As for my iPhone and iPads, I can run Pandora, Spotify, other music services, Netflix, Hulu, other TV services, Amazon Alexa app, Gmail app, use Google calendar, read Amazon Kindle books, etc. So where is the walled garden?

Basically Apple is very proactive in matters of customer security. Amazon is somewhat proactive in same, and Google, well not so much. Good security does not equate to a walled garden though.

It remains to be seen if Apple will allow other music services on their new HomePod. They allow same on other devices though. Amazon allows other music services on their Echo devices. Even if Apple doesn't allow other music services that doesn't make them a walled garden since all their other devices are open to other music services. I suspect Apple will allow them on the HomePod at some point. It just makes better business sense in the long term.

We have been hearing this "walled garden" metaphor for as long as there has been iOS. I see no walled garden though. I see added protection. The same kind of security I expect my property taxes to provide in my neighborhood and city. Without good security we have the possibility of many bad issues occurring. If Google doesn't want to have the level of security that Apple uses, that is their business. If you are cool with that, then so be it. But just because Apple has a bigger security force than Google does not make them a walled garden.

[DreamWriter]

Originally Posted by booklover6

Thanks for the tip on the Echo/Dot voice remote. I ordered one for my Dot.

You're welcome. I think you'll like not having to speak the wake word. It's really nice having the volume/skip/pause controls, too.

Here's the link again for anyone interested in purchasing a used (very good condition) Echo Voice Remote for $9.82 (price for new one is $29.99):
https://www.amazon.com/gp/offer-listing/B01E9AHU8Q

[Cinisajoy]

Originally Posted by jswinden

Okay, I've been told I was too abrasive for my reply to Apple being a closed garden. For that I apologize. I guess I'm still too entrenched in academia wherein that is a normal type of response. But I can see where it might not be considered appropriate in this forum. So again, my apologies.

Here is my kinder and gentler reply to the walled garden metaphor. Take it as you will, believe how you want, but I see the metaphor as being incorrect, and here is why.

Apple and Google pretty much have the same apps available to their customers. Apple filters out bad developers, developers who abandon apps, apps that can cause issues or trick customers out of money, apps so badly written that they are a ripoff, etc. IMO that is good as it protects the customers. Google doesn't seem to filter much, and IMO that is a bad thing as you can easily get malicious apps. Google doesn't seem to care much about their customers security. Amazon, well they have their own store separated from the Android one, they do seem to do some filtering to protect customers. I see no walled gardens among any of these companies though, at least as far as app availability goes. Apple is very protective, Amazon a little protective, and Google not so much, but essentially you can run the same apps on all three companies devices.

What about 3rd party services. You can run Netflix, Hulu, various TV apps, Pandora, Spotify, etc. on all three companies devices. No walled garden there either. Amazon and Apple both have their own music service, but both allow competition. Not sure if Google has a music service.

As for my iPhone and iPads, I can run Pandora, Spotify, other music services, Netflix, Hulu, other TV services, Amazon Alexa app, Gmail app, use Google calendar, read Amazon Kindle books, etc. So where is the walled garden?

Basically Apple is very proactive in matters of customer security. Amazon is somewhat proactive in same, and Google, well not so much. Good security does not equate to a walled garden though.

It remains to be seen if Apple will allow other music services on their new HomePod. They allow same on other devices though. Amazon allows other music services on their Echo devices. Even if Apple doesn't allow other music services that doesn't make them a walled garden since all their other devices are open to other music services. I suspect Apple will allow them on the HomePod at some point. It just makes better business sense in the long term.

We have been hearing this "walled garden" metaphor for as long as there has been iOS. I see no walled garden though. I see added protection. The same kind of security I expect my property taxes to provide in my neighborhood and city. Without good security we have the possibility of many bad issues occurring. If Google doesn't want to have the level of security that Apple uses, that is their business. If you are cool with that, then so be it. But just because Apple has a bigger security force than Google does not make them a walled garden.

Hey Jack,
Most of those third party apps you mention can also be found on PS3 and smart tvs.

Oh and walled garden- use our stuff on our devices. Security is not the issue.
As far as I know- I can't use the Apple store on my Android. I could root or something and use GP on my Fire. I know I can use the Amazon app on an Android tablet or smart phone.

So yes, walled gardens but most have a hidden gate.

[Keslynn]

Originally Posted by jswinden

What about 3rd party services. You can run Netflix, Hulu, various TV apps, Pandora, Spotify, etc. on all three companies devices. No walled garden there either. Amazon and Apple both have their own music service, but both allow competition. Not sure if Google has a music service.



As for my iPhone and iPads, I can run Pandora, Spotify, other music services, Netflix, Hulu, other TV services, Amazon Alexa app, Gmail app, use Google calendar, read Amazon Kindle books, etc. So where is the walled garden?

Interesting discussion. 🙂 I think the walled garden refers more to the OS and the specific hardware rather than apps or app security.

There is only one iOS. The features may vary between iPads and iPhones, but Apple fully controls iOS. Period. This is in contrast to Android which allows manufacturers to skin Android. Sometimes the skinned version becomes more popular than vanilla Android. A lot of people use Samsung's TouchWiz. Amazon heavily modified Android for their FireOS.

Apple also fully controls the hardware. Only Apple devices run iOS. Many different devices run Android or Windows.

I think that's more what people mean by walled garden, but I could be wrong.

Although I'm not planning on getting one, I am curious if HomePod requires another Apple device for setup. That would be somewhat along the lines of what I think of as the walled garden.

[WT Sharpe]

Completely out of the blue this morning, Alexa suddenly said, "What would you like me to play next?"

I said, "Nobody asked you to play anything."

She responded, "I don't know that."

I replied, "Well, you know it now because I just told you."

Sheesh!

[wodin]

Originally Posted by Keslynn

...
Apple also fully controls the hardware. Only Apple devices run iOS. Many different devices run Android or Windows.

I think that's more what people mean by walled garden, but I could be wrong.

Although I'm not planning on getting one, I am curious if HomePod requires another Apple device for setup. That would be somewhat along the lines of what I think of as the walled garden.

Yes, the HomePod literature (so far) says it's easy to set up, all you have to do is place your iPhone next to it, and it sets itself up. So if I want a HomePod (I don't) I'll need to get an iPhone (I won't) in order to set it up.

It's hard to understand why Apple would limit itself to less than half of all smart phone users. Do they really think people will go out and buy iPhones just to set up their speakers when they can connect external speakers of any quality/price to a fifty dollar Dot.

Walled Garden indeed!

[tubemonkey]

Originally Posted by wodin

Yes, the HomePod literature (so far) says it's easy to set up, all you have to do is place your iPhone next to it, and it sets itself up. So if I want a HomePod (I don't) I'll need to get an iPhone (I won't) in order to set it up.

It's hard to understand why Apple would limit itself to less than half of all smart phone users. Do they really think people will go out and buy iPhones just to set up their speakers when they can connect external speakers of any quality/price to a fifty dollar Dot.

Walled Garden indeed!

I can find no references to what you claim here, that is that HomePod requires an iPhone, or any other Apple device. It might, but I see no literature stating or even implying that. No Apple device I'm aware of requires another Apple device to use. Now don't get me wrong, I am not interested in a HomePod at all, nor an Apple TV, etc. I like my iPhone, iPad, and Macs, but I also like other companies devices. So no fanboy here. Not even close. If you don't want to use their devices, then don't. But fact is they are close to a trillion dollar company, so a lot of people do like them. They are not building HomePods for you, they are building them for those who like Apple products. And android device companies are not building their devices for me, they are building them for people like you who want them. No need to get in an uproar, especially since you stated you are not even interested in the HomePod.

As I said, the HomePod is designed for Apple fans who are already into Apple Music. If they don't want to include other music services like Spotify, then that is sad, but their business. I guess you can also have a fit over Ford not putting Chevy engines in their cars. But why would you? It makes no sense for Ford to put Chevy engines in Ford cars and it would make no sense to get upset that they don't.