Calibre, Kobo and Collections

[JSWolf]

Originally Posted by davidfor

Jon: If you read the thread, there is already a link to the Wiki article about configuring collection management. Pointing to the old thread is not that useful.

One problem I see in the wiki is the mention of a custom column. This will make the new users think they have to create a custom column. They don't have to. Calibre has two already defined columns from the days of the Sony Reader.

Series is one and [b]Tags[/i] is the other. The purpose for series is obvious. But tags was defined to be used when the book didn't go into a series. like the myshelves used in the wiki.

1. Added a custom column to calibre

That's what I object to. I object to making it harder than it needs to be. Adding a column that already exists is wrong (IMHO) unless the person wants to. But the instructions don't say you don't have to create this custom column.

[PeterT]

If you want to change the wiki go for it

Sent from my Nexus 7 using Tapatalk

[davidfor]

Originally Posted by JSWolf

One problem I see in the wiki is the mention of a custom column. This will make the new users think they have to create a custom column. They don't have to. Calibre has two already defined columns from the days of the Sony Reader.

Series is one and [b]Tags[/i] is the other. The purpose for series is obvious. But tags was defined to be used when the book didn't go into a series. like the myshelves used in the wiki.

1. Added a custom column to calibre

That's what I object to. I object to making it harder than it needs to be. Adding a column that already exists is wrong (IMHO) unless the person wants to. But the instructions don't say you don't have to create this custom column.

You did read all the instructions? Including the bit where it gives an example of what goes into that configuration. You know, the bit that includes "series".

But, to comment on your objection, the reason these instructions were written were for the hard case. The case where someone wanted to use something that wasn't already in a column. If all that was needed was to use the series, then the no one would have bothered with the original thread, or the Wiki page. They simply would have said, "Enter the name of the column into the field".

And of course, as PeterT said, it is a Wiki, if you can do better, please do so.

[JSWolf]

Originally Posted by davidfor

You did read all the instructions? Including the bit where it gives an example of what goes into that configuration. You know, the bit that includes "series".

But, to comment on your objection, the reason these instructions were written were for the hard case. The case where someone wanted to use something that wasn't already in a column. If all that was needed was to use the series, then the no one would have bothered with the original thread, or the Wiki page. They simply would have said, "Enter the name of the column into the field".

And of course, as PeterT said, it is a Wiki, if you can do better, please do so.

Back long before Kobo there was Sony. Calibre or as it was known as LibPRS500. There were two columns defined for collections. One was Series and the other was Tags. Series was for Series collection names because the entries got numbered. The other, Tags, was used for everything else that's not a series for collections. So as I see it, since we have two perfectly good columns already built into Calibre by default, I see no need to start the directions on Calibre and collections with how to make a custom column.

Yes, I shall change the Wiki once I figure out the proper wording and have the time. In fact, I'll run the changes through in this thread so others can have a go at it before it's committed.

[davidfor]

Originally Posted by JSWolf

Back long before Kobo there was Sony. Calibre or as it was known as LibPRS500. There were two columns defined for collections. One was Series and the other was Tags. Series was for Series collection names because the entries got numbered. The other, Tags, was used for everything else that's not a series for collections. So as I see it, since we have two perfectly good columns already built into Calibre by default, I see no need to start the directions on Calibre and collections with how to make a custom column.

Yes, I shall change the Wiki once I figure out the proper wording and have the time. In fact, I'll run the changes through in this thread so others can have a go at it before it's committed.

Oh, you want the same way it was done for the Sony? Why on earth do you want it so limited? You can create collections for ANY column in the calibre library*. And ANY combination that you can think of. That's why the instructions are needed. And including a custom column was in response to the MANY posts asking how to do exactly that.

Also, if the Sony Series collection automatically numbered the books somehow, that isn't something that can happen here. There is series info better than any other device I know of, but, it is completely independent of the collections.

* Of course, some, such as title, would be pretty stupid, but it would work. Hmm, "should work". I'm not going to test it. If someone does, please tell me.

[Terisa de morgan]

Originally Posted by davidfor

Also, if the Sony Series collection automatically numbered the books somehow, that isn't something that can happen here. There is series info better than any other device I know of, but, it is completely independent of the collections.

It didn't (numbering, I mean). And it didn't show the series info (PRS+ either, my PRS version yes, but that's the reason I know that standard series info is not shown).

[shalym]

Originally Posted by JSWolf

Back long before Kobo there was Sony. Calibre or as it was known as LibPRS500. There were two columns defined for collections. One was Series and the other was Tags. Series was for Series collection names because the entries got numbered. The other, Tags, was used for everything else that's not a series for collections. So as I see it, since we have two perfectly good columns already built into Calibre by default, I see no need to start the directions on Calibre and collections with how to make a custom column.

Yes, I shall change the Wiki once I figure out the proper wording and have the time. In fact, I'll run the changes through in this thread so others can have a go at it before it's committed.

Please don't take out the part about the custom column--You can say that it's optional (if it doesn't say that already) but please do leave it there. Many people have no interest in redefining all of their tags, especially since that column is written to when doing a metadata lookup.

I created a custom column for that very reason--I can add my own tags for the books and not worry about what somebody else wants to tag the book as.

Shari

[JSWolf]

Originally Posted by davidfor

Oh, you want the same way it was done for the Sony? Why on earth do you want it so limited? You can create collections for ANY column in the calibre library*. And ANY combination that you can think of. That's why the instructions are needed. And including a custom column was in response to the MANY posts asking how to do exactly that.

Also, if the Sony Series collection automatically numbered the books somehow, that isn't something that can happen here. There is series info better than any other device I know of, but, it is completely independent of the collections.

* Of course, some, such as title, would be pretty stupid, but it would work. Hmm, "should work". I'm not going to test it. If someone does, please tell me.

I think you misunderstood. Collections on Sony work the same way as they do on Kobo. But the difference is in the driver. The Sony Driver automatically uses the Series and Tags columns for managing collections and unless you need more then those two columns, there's no need to create a custom column in Calibre. All you do in the Kobo driver is just specify Series & Tags for the collection columns. Simple really.

[JSWolf]

Originally Posted by shalym

Please don't take out the part about the custom column--You can say that it's optional (if it doesn't say that already) but please do leave it there. Many people have no interest in redefining all of their tags, especially since that column is written to when doing a metadata lookup.

I created a custom column for that very reason--I can add my own tags for the books and not worry about what somebody else wants to tag the book as.

Shari

You don't need that custom column. It's doing nothing for you that the Tags column cannot do. Do you see a need for a third collection column?

[davidfor]

Originally Posted by JSWolf

I think you misunderstood. Collections on Sony work the same way as they do on Kobo. But the difference is in the driver. The Sony Driver automatically uses the Series and Tags columns for managing collections and unless you need more then those two columns, there's no need to create a custom column in Calibre. All you do in the Kobo driver is just specify Series & Tags for the collection columns. Simple really.

And you misunderstand.

The collection management in the Kobo driver is a LOT more flexible than for the Sony. You are NOT forced to only pick one or two possible ways to created collections. You can create them however you want. You can create a column that you manually maintain to create collections. You can also use the series or tags. But, you are NOT forced to use these if you don't want to.

The use of a custom column is optional. The use of series is optional. The use of tags is optional. And personally, tags is poor choice for creating collections.

The Wiki article might not make it obvious what is and isn't optional. But, as I have already said, it was written in response to a LOT of posts asking how to do exactly what it gives instructions to do.

[jackie_w]

Originally Posted by JSWolf

You don't need that custom column. It's doing nothing for you that the Tags column cannot do. Do you see a need for a third collection column?

C'mon, Jon! Lecturing davidfor in how the Kobo driver works isn't very smart, is it, given he wrote most (all???) of it?

[DNSB]

Originally Posted by JSWolf

You don't need that custom column. It's doing nothing for you that the Tags column cannot do. Do you see a need for a third collection column?

Given the amount of junk that shows up in the Tags column? I prefer a custom column where I don't have to clean it out before adding what I want to see there.

[DNSB]

Originally Posted by jackie_w

C'mon, Jon! Lecturing davidfor in how the Kobo driver works isn't very smart, is it, given he wrote most (all???) of it?

But it's so much fun to watch.

[davidfor]

Originally Posted by jackie_w

C'mon, Jon! Lecturing davidfor in how the Kobo driver works isn't very smart, is it, given he wrote most (all???) of it?

Rewrote is probably best. I fixed some problems in the Kobo driver, sub-classed it for the KoboTouch and added function as needed.

And why did I do that? Because I wanted support for new feature in the Kobo firmware: Shelves. Or collections as they are now known. And because I was bored.

For those who are watching, the next calibre release will have a fix for a problem where the collections column in the Device list would sometime be empty. It's been there since the beginning, but a report recently gave me a clue as to what triggered it, so I've finally fixed it.

[Terisa de morgan]

Originally Posted by davidfor

Rewrote is probably best. I fixed some problems in the Kobo driver, sub-classed it for the KoboTouch and added function as needed.

And why did I do that? Because I wanted support for new feature in the Kobo firmware: Shelves. Or collections as they are now known. And because I was bored.

For those who are watching, the next calibre release will have a fix for a problem where the collections column in the Device list would sometime be empty. It's been there since the beginning, but a report recently gave me a clue as to what triggered it, so I've finally fixed it.

Can it be related to a problem I've had lately? The "ignored" collections been emptied (although not removed) when I send a book to the device.