Why B&N Nook is failing.

[AnemicOak]

I'm not missing the point and it's not pedantry to say they didn't change the DRM scheme (or not trying to be). I didn't buy much from them then or now, but still do now what I did before the key thing which is download a book via Nook for PC and disinfect it, nothing has changed.

I get what you're saying and know it cost them a few customers (especially MobileRead folks). I totally get why it would make you stop giving them your business. I don't think it's something that has hurt nook a ton in the grand scheme though and they were already in trouble well before that. A very small fraction of customers care about anything but buying a book and reading it on the devices & apps a given store makes available. Certainly not about removing DRM.

Anyway, didn't mean for things to get so far off track. Sorry.

[barryem]

A long long time ago, in the days of the Microsoft Ereader, long before ereaders were invented, Barnes and Noble also sold ebooks that could be downloaded to a PC to be read in their app. About 2 or 3 years later they decided to quit selling them and they sent all their customers a notice that we had 30 days to download our books and they would no longer be available. Period. Not available anywhere.

I had about a dozen of their books at the time, if memory serves. I wasn't really sure I cared that much but I downloaded them. Then a few months later I bought a new computer and sold my old one. That was the end of those books. I couldn't download the app so they couldn't be read.

Again, I'd read them and there weren't any I cared that much about so I didn't feel a great loss but still I felt cheated. I'd paid for the right to read those books and they took away my ability to do so.

That event probably had very little, if anything to do with B&N failing but I bet the attitude behind it has a lot to do with it.

Barry

[pwalker8]

Way back when the Nook first came out, my sister preferred the Nook to the Kindle (I used a Sony). I actually did buy a nook to try it out. My issue was three fold

1) poor selection of books compared to Amazon and Sony
2) Had to jump through too many hoops with the DRM compared to Amazon
3) Terrible ebook store.

For a few years, back when I was still going to B&N, my normal experience was - I would go to the new book section of the genres I was interested in (SF&F and History). I would look through and see if there were any new books I was interested in. If so, I would search for it in the nook app. Generally, I didn't find it. Then I would look for it in the Amazon app. Generally, I would find it there. If so, I would buy it since I preferred ebooks to paper books. If I didn't find it, then I would go ahead and buy the paper copy at the B&N. Most of the new fiction books were on Amazon, but a lot of the History books were not.

I think I ended up buying about 3 books at the nook store. What would I have preferred to have happen? Walk into the B&N, see a book that I was interested in. Read the bar code on my nook (or tablet since the nook didn't have a camera). The Nook app finds the book, says "do you want to buy this", I click yes and boom, I'm done. They could have sold me hundreds of books that way.

B&N at that time was all about shopping experience. It's a pity that they didn't translate that experience to their ebook store.

[AnemicOak]

Originally Posted by barryem

A long long time ago, in the days of the Microsoft Ereader, long before ereaders were invented, Barnes and Noble also sold ebooks that could be downloaded to a PC to be read in their app. About 2 or 3 years later they decided to quit selling them and they sent all their customers a notice that we had 30 days to download our books and they would no longer be available. Period. Not available anywhere.

Amazon was similar. IIRC they both used an outside distributor (OverDrive or LightningSource probably) instead of hosting them directly and when they stopped selling eBooks (in '03 or '04 IIRC) and those agreements with the distributor(s) ended the access to books also ended (just like when OverDrive dropped Fictionwise). A much different world than the more modern stores that both stores run today.

[rhadin]

In my view, B&N is failing because it hasn't been smart enough to take advantage of their loyal book buyers. I'm one of those buyers.

I buy mainly hardcovers, generally 4 to 6 a month (on average). My wife prefers ebooks and so I buy an average of 2 ebooks from B&N a month for her. But unlike hardcovers where I will buy without regard for price, we never buy an ebook priced at more than a few dollars.

Where B&N fails itself (this is but one of many failures) is that it does not take advantage of my book-buying habits. It knows my history as I have been a "member" for decades. Every time I buy a book, B&N should note the author, whether it is part of a series, and the genre. As soon as the author's next book is announced, B&N should send me a notice offering me the option to preorder at a special price and with a guarantee that should the price drop at anytime before shipping, I will be charged the lowest price. At the same time, it could promote to me similar type books at special pricing.

This is a simple marketing technique but one that B&N ignores.

Another thing B&N could do is offer an author subscription service. What I mean is, if I discover a new author that I like, I could check a box adding the author to my "B&N follow list" (which doesn't currently exist) and B&N should then offer to me the opportunity to buy bundles of other books by the author at a special price.

It is interesting that here on MR the passion for ebooks remains unabated. I am not so sure that is true in the book-buying world. The explosive growth of ebooks of past years is not repeating and most of the readers I know have taken my path, that is, dropped print for ebooks, bought largely ebooks for a year or so, and then slowly stopped buying ebooks and turned back to print. If it weren't for my wife's need to use something like a Nook, I wouldn't buy ebooks at all.

B&N can recover with some imagination but I think imagination will be hard to come by as long as Riggio remains in charge.

[pdurrant]

Originally Posted by rhadin

most of the readers I know have taken my path, that is, dropped print for ebooks, bought largely ebooks for a year or so, and then slowly stopped buying ebooks and turned back to print.

Wow. Why?

I started buying ebooks many years ago (2003?) and I very rarely buy a print book. I can't imagine going back to print books myself.

The ebook sales figures (once you include independents and small publishers!) don't back up your anecdotal experience.

[Sirtel]

Originally Posted by pdurrant

I very rarely buy a print book. I can't imagine going back to print books myself.

Yeah, same here. I've been buying ebooks since 2011 and it's hard for me to imagine why anyone would want to go back to paper books.

[Alpha o]

The silly membership discount stopped most of us from shopping there. Every clerk had to try to sell you even before answering a question. We didn't buy enough books to make it profitable for us anyway.

I do have the Nook Wifi. One of the early ones. It still works, and it will read most EPUB. I like it as it has page turn buttons and the HOME on a separate screen below the main screen.

I never bought ebooks from B&N. Never had anything I wanted. I found Gutenberg and loaded up. I also found spam allows in the membership. B&N and one of the direct partners had a no-spam TOS, but a couple of the smaller affiliates were allowed to access info and spam from the TOS that I read. So I deleted membership. Couldn't buy a book from B&N if I wanted to.

As long as that old Nook works, I can use it. B&N can't even find it in their system. I tried to re-register it in my daughter's name and they couldn't do it. Now it is non-proprietary. That's the way I prefer things.

[fjtorres]

Originally Posted by Alpha o

I do have the Nook Wifi. One of the early ones. It still works, and it will read most EPUB. I like it as it has page turn buttons and the HOME on a separate screen below the main screen.

I never bought ebooks from B&N. Never had anything I wanted. I found Gutenberg and loaded up. I also found spam allows in the membership. B&N and one of the direct partners had a no-spam TOS, but a couple of the smaller affiliates were allowed to access info and spam from the TOS that I read. So I deleted membership. Couldn't buy a book from B&N if I wanted to.

As long as that old Nook works, I can use it. B&N can't even find it in their system. I tried to re-register it in my daughter's name and they couldn't do it. Now it is non-proprietary. That's the way I prefer things.

And there lies Exhibit A:

Nook sells ebooks that can only be read on Nook ereaders (and, maybe apps) but Nook readers can be used with ebooks from competing stores. That is a nice feature if your primary business is selling hardware, a poor decision if you sell the hardware at near cost and expect to make money off ebook sales. (Which, remember, was *their* decision to start with.)

It also makes it easy for customers to take their business elsewhere. Which they have been steadily doing since their sales started tanking. Which led to the ongoing spiral: bad sales news scares customers away, leading to steadily worse sales. And more bad news.

[sun surfer]

B&N reminds me of Blockbuster, with Amazon being their Netflix.

Way back when, Netflix actually went to Blockbuster and offered to sell themselves to Blockbuster. Blockbuster basically laughed in their faces, refusing. The rest is history, including Blockbuster's own bungled attempts at updating (they tried by mail and I think maybe even some kind of half-baked on-demand streaming tied to I think it was Dish Network who bought them out just before their eventual bankruptcy).

So there are differences in B&N/Amazon, but the similarities are striking. On one hand, you have an older previously successful company that bungled its attempt at adapting to newer technology and is failing because of it. On the other hand, you have a newer and very quickly growing technologically advanced company with smart and forward-thinking CEOs who basically stole the market, or at least the majority share.

The sad thing about B&N is that I think they did try harder than Blockbuster, but they had the same inept bureaucracy in the end. Management that had been too easily successful before and couldn't properly see how to be successful in a different environment. B&N came closer than Blockbuster, but still lost out to its more technologically adept rival.

I did have a Nook once; I think it was even my first dedicated ereader. I think that's how I found this site - looking for recommendations on which ereader to get as my first, and I chose the Nook. That will probably be the first and last Nook I ever own, unless B&N and Nook have some miraculous turn-around.

[Cinisajoy]

You are right. Dish either bought them out or made a deal with them.

Oh and to the print vs ebook crowd, over in the 17% thread, 3 posted showed how they use ebooks.
One has quit buying as many, one has remained stable and the third one does mostly subscription.

[theducks]

A Bookseller should sell BOOKS. This bit of worrying which format to support is stupid . Hard bound, Paperback or E-book. Sell them!
Quit pushing the other stuff (first), when the customer wants to buy a BOOK (or other device)
Stores annoy me when they try and sell me other goods or service BEFORE they will take care of my selection or request.
Annoy me enough, and I GO AWAY.

[fjtorres]

The biggest difference between Blockbuster and B&N is that when Blockbuster screwed up, they only destroyed their own business. (Even today there are still companies making good money renting DVDs and games on physical media.)

When B&N screwed up in 2010, they screwed up the entire interactive epub ecosystem. Thry hurt everybody except Amazon. For absolutely zero gain: at the time of the four hour price war, Amazon was down to 54% market share. Its all-time low. Nook was at 26%. Its all-time high.

The damage, though, was substantial.
A few months earlier at CES 2010 a total of 42 ereaders were on display, targetting the US and world markets. All were interoperable epub. Now, typically, half to two thirds of all CES announcements amount to nothing. But a third of 42 is still a lot of competition and the list included multiple models from the likes of SONY, SAMSUNG, ACER, ASUS, iRiver, Pocketbook, etc. And those all did make it to market. But few made it to the US. Because they were designed to sell at $299 and higher. Even the cheaper, second tier generics were priced at $199 and up. In a market the B&N reset to $149-179 for wireless connected models there was little room for hardware-only vendors.

It became a walled garden world and ereaders became primarily storefronts with little room for differentiation or premium models.

There is a lot of handwringing today over lack of variation in the ereader mainstream but the fact is Amazon is nice and comfy with its position as the mainsteam benchmark and nobody else has the pockets or the tech to mount a credible challenge. Not at today's price points. Witness the squealing when Amazon dared introduce the Voyager and the Oasis at higher price points. Even Kobo got grumbles when their new models came in $10 higher.

When basic Kindles can be regularly had for $49 and Paperwhites for $99 there really isn't enough margin (or demand) for competitive products with innovative functions or form factors.

That's what happens when you cut margins from 30% to under 10%. If Amazon had done it first the antitrust guys would've been all over them before you could say "predatory pricing".
But since it was B&N that started it...

Amazon has a lot to be thankful to B&N for.

[Apache]

Originally Posted by pdurrant

Wow. Why?

I started buying ebooks many years ago (2003?) and I very rarely buy a print book. I can't imagine going back to print books myself.

The ebook sales figures (once you include independents and small publishers!) don't back up your anecdotal experience.

Originally Posted by Sirtel

Yeah, same here. I've been buying ebooks since 2011 and it's hard for me to imagine why anyone would want to go back to paper books.

I too would fined it very inconvenient to have to go back to print books.

[pdurrant]

Originally Posted by pdurrant

I started buying ebooks many years ago (2003?)

I forgot - I can now just check my calibre database!

I started buying ebooks back on 29 January 2002 (from Baen). I've been buying ebooks for over 15 years!