Ebooks vs Websites

[SigilBear]

Originally Posted by Penforhire

The information there has as much value today as it did when I started (detailed a specific vintage vehicle restoration) but websites need to stay fresh. You have a real dialog with your readers, or at least you can. E-books do not have quite that same burden.

If I wrote an e-book instead I'd expect sales volume to depend entirely on my marketing of it.

Yes, my experience is similar. Part of the problem is the VACUUM CLEANER EFFECT. You could write the best article about aardvarks on the Internet, but if people type "aardvark" into Google, the top hit is going to be Wikipedia. (I verified it just now, for any doubters.)

Yet the publishing industry in general has long been a zoo. As we all know, you just have to roll up your sleeves, work hard and try to find your niche. Like you, I'll be doing a lot of marketing.

[Cinisajoy]

Originally Posted by SigilBear

I just made up a big number. 2 million, 6 billion, a trillion - we'll get there soon enough.

I want to respond to this.
You say you have self-published a book before. I am going to assume you mean a paper as opposed to an ebook. I am making this assumption on the basis of your numbers are not making any sense.
Now you may be the world's greatest website designer. Heck you may look up general topics every day and be the world's expert on very general things. But when it comes to ebooks, it looks like you have not done any research. You just pulled numbers out of a hat as opposed to taking 2 seconds to actually see how many ebooks there were on a topic.
Real data is always a help. Or at least data based on a known.
Now your 430,000 is probably close to accurate in one sense. I figure only the top 430,000 ebooks make any kind of money.
The other roughly 90% make pennies or nothing. Keep in mind all the free public domain books and some price matched books.

Your 430,000 may have looked large to you. 10% of anything is not a large number.
It is all in context.
Rather like $1000 is probably big money to us. But to Jeff, Bill, Donald and assorted others, that would be pocket change.

[Cinisajoy]

Originally Posted by SigilBear

Yes, my experience is similar. Part of the problem is the VACUUM CLEANER EFFECT. You could write the best article about aardvarks on the Internet, but if people type "aardvark" into Google, the top hit is going to be Wikipedia. (I verified it just now, for any doubters.)

Yet the publishing industry in general has long been a zoo. As we all know, you just have to roll up your sleeves, work hard and try to find your niche. Like you, I'll be doing a lot of marketing.

And National Geographic was second. No surprise there.

[SigilBear]

Originally Posted by Cinisajoy

I want to respond to this.
You say you have self-published a book before. I am going to assume you mean a paper as opposed to an ebook. I am making this assumption on the basis of your numbers are not making any sense....

Hey, pal, I hate to be rude, but you really need to GET A CLUE. I just reached for a BIG NUMBER to make the point that there are a LOT OF EBOOKS out there. I don't need an endless lecture about big numbers from you any more than I need your endless lecture about what you meant about static vs updated ebooks.

400,000, a million, A TRILLION - Who cares how many ebooks there are? I was merely alluding to the fact that there are a lot of ebooks out there. If you want to make the case that that makes me some kind of amateur, then maybe you should start a new thread.

[Cinisajoy]

Originally Posted by SigilBear

Hey, pal, I hate to be rude, but you really need to GET A CLUE. I just reached for a BIG NUMBER to make the point that there are a LOT OF EBOOKS out there. I don't need an endless lecture about big numbers from you any more than I need your endless lecture about what you meant about static vs updated ebooks.

400,000, a million, A TRILLION - Who cares how many ebooks there are? I was merely alluding to the fact that there are a lot of ebooks out there. If you want to make the case that that makes me some kind of amateur, then maybe you should start a new thread.

That would violate forum rules on the new thread.
Now if I wanted to publish a cookbook, the first thing I would do is see how many are on Amazon. 83, 474 ebooks. Of which 868 are low cholesterol, which means it is a small market. Next I would be seeing if it is a good market to get into or is it a slow moving market.
That way I could either go with that idea and possibly make good money or should I market it as a different type of cookbook. (Note: wrong idea at the moment, so looking for a different way to present the book to attract buyers.)
As a business person I would want the figures.
So yes, the figures do matter.
Your little discussion has certainly helped me make some decisions.
I think I will just write my fictitious autobiography. *must change names and places to protect the guilty.

[SigilBear]

Originally Posted by Cinisajoy

Now if I wanted to publish a cookbook. . . .

OK, start a new thread about your latest cookbook. Frankly, I'm sick of your pointless, insulting posts. There's another thread where someone criticized you for harassing me. Maybe you should think before you post.

[Cinisajoy]

Originally Posted by SigilBear

OK, start a new thread about your latest cookbook. Frankly, I'm sick of your pointless, insulting posts. There's another thread where someone criticized you for harassing me. Maybe you should think before you post.

They did where? I saw the one that called me rude for making an observation about someone else's words.

Oh you want an insult, publish your book. I would bet you $10 that your reviewers will be a heck of lot harder on you than I am.
You think I'm harassing you. Report the post. You don't like what I say, use the ignore function. You post, people answer.

Here is the thing, I am all for self publishing. I want it to get off the ground. I am tired of these wannabe authors that can't even write a sentence. I want you to go far and have your book knock those down a few ranks.

If I didn't think you had potential I wouldn't be responding. I think you can go far.
Either write your book and publish it as you see best or make a website devoted to whatever your topic is. Or do both. Or do neither. You will either make money or you won't.

But books and websites are two totally different things. Different uses.

[theducks]

One big, IMPORTANT difference with ebooks (ofline)

No never ending stream of ads and videos always in my face.

<tip> you want me to consider buying, don't BLUDGEON me with ads. My back gets up real easy because of all the rudeness web site are doing.

If you got to, show the ad. DON't put up the content, the cram an ad OVER or yank the page down (window shade) away from my eyes. When I was young, Grabbing someones reading material from them woul have resulted in a trip to the woodshed

[SigilBear]

Originally Posted by theducks

One big, IMPORTANT difference with ebooks (ofline)

No never ending stream of ads and videos always in my face.

Yes, that's a big plus for ebooks.

I can't remember if I stated this earlier in this thread, but I'm trying to brainstorm ways to, in a sense, recycle content. For example, write an ebook about topic A, then put similar information on a website. The website would be a better platform for big, spectacular images; complex sortable tables; etc. But an ebook would probably have better navigation and no ads.

It largely boils down to the differences and similarities between websites and ebooks (and print books).

For example, I'm working on a book about state symbols, which includes hundreds of state flower, state birds, etc. Most state symbols references include brief information about the natural history of each of these symbols, which is a little redundant. ("The mountain bluebird breeds in the spring...")

I'd like to instead link each state symbol account to a web page where readers can learn all the natural history they want. So the ebook would focus on symbols, while an associated website would offer information on an "ecosymbols" appearance, distribution and life history.

There are endless possibilities for website/ebook collaborations, though they're probably more suited to reference books than novels.

[Krazykiwi]

Originally Posted by SigilBear

For example, I'm working on a book about state symbols, which includes hundreds of state flower, state birds, etc. Most state symbols references include brief information about the natural history of each of these symbols, which is a little redundant. ("The mountain bluebird breeds in the spring...")

I'd like to instead link each state symbol account to a web page where readers can learn all the natural history they want. So the ebook would focus on symbols, while an associated website would offer information on an "ecosymbols" appearance, distribution and life history.

Consider:
- An ebook that consists of nothing but links to websites has been tried before. Amazon removes them when they're reported, they're considered scams.
- An ebook where every page has some content, but also links to a website, might skate past Amazon's rules, but would still likely have readers considering it a scam, if they had to pay for the book.

What is the actual use case for this?

How many people actually need a reference for all state symbols, vs the number who are looking up a particular one that they may have need of for just that minute? An ebook reference for all the state symbols is vanishingly useful for the second group, but the first group cannot be very large - who are they?

Why are people looking up state symbols? For general personal edification? That audience has to be miniscule.

Most people looking one up would have a specific purpose in mind: They want to use it on something seems the most likely to me. In which case, the background behind it is of no interest, they want a high res copy of it, and to know the rules about usage. So they'll go to the source, the state government website of the symbol(s) they are interested in, where they are guaranteed the most up to date information and imagery.

Kids researching for a school assignment? They might be interested in the extra information, but again, unlikely to need more than one symbol, and probably wouldn't spend their disposable income on a reference book.

Someone looking up a symbol to end an argument? ("No, you idiot, the symbol for Foo state has an OSTRICH on it, not a camel") Again, unlikely to need a reference to all the state symbols, just specific info on that one. Wikipedia will likely answer that for them, why would they buy a book about it? How would they know there is a book about it?

I'm struggling to come up with further use cases, but in any case, that's your job.

I suspect the reason your hard copy competitors in this space are out of print, is because they aren't that useful anymore. This kind of information is readily available directly from the source, as well as aggregated on sites like Wikipedia. Printed encyclopedias are pretty few and far between these days too. Times have changed.

In any case, where and to whom would you market this kind of information? Are there "state symbol enthusiast" clubs?

Unless you can figure out who your audience is, and why they need the information, you can't market to them. And if you can't market to them, they won't be buying.

Successful self-publishing these days, as any self-published author will tell you, is far more about marketing and discoverability than anything else.

[SigilBear]

Originally Posted by Krazykiwi

Consider:
- An ebook that consists of nothing but links to websites has been tried before. Amazon removes them when they're reported, they're considered scams.
- An ebook where every page has some content, but also links to a website, might skate past Amazon's rules, but would still likely have readers considering it a scam, if they had to pay for the book.

That's good to know. I was thinking if including a note that people who wanted to learn more about NATURAL HISTORY of a particular symbol could refer to a table in the appendix. For example, there might be a table listing all the state birds, which each species linked to a web page.

If Amazon wouldn't even allow that, then maybe I could just include a single link to a similar table on my website, with links to additional information.

I wonder if Apple is as anal about links as Amazon?

Originally Posted by Krazykiwi

What is the actual use case for this?

How many people actually need a reference for all state symbols, vs the number who are looking up a particular one that they may have need of for just that minute? An ebook reference for all the state symbols is vanishingly useful for the second group, but the first group cannot be very large - who are they?

Teachers, parents, librarians, anyone with a special interest in symbols. The interest would actually appear to be increasing, judging by the number of websites focusing on symbols.

As for the paucity of books, that could be due largely to a lack of imagination. The existing references are unbelievably shallow and poorly designed; they really missed the mark.

I could probably list half a dozen major improvements that could easily be made. And I don't have to sell 10,000 books or even a thousand to be successful. Like I said, I'm working on a series, and there is in fact considerable interest in particular categories of symbols, such as flags, flowers, etc. Every year, new legislation is promoted in various states that increases awareness of and interest in symbols.

But I'm going off on a tangent. My projects aren't all related to symbols. I also write about geography, wildlife biology and political science/theory/philosophy.

Time will tell which is most popular, but there is a lot of interest in these topics in general.

[Cinisajoy]

On your web links, what am I supposed to read your book on?
E-ink browsers are rudimentary at best.
Now on your reference book I have an idea. Take a page from the children's books and make it where it is only available on tablets and computers. That way the full colors show. Also easier to access any Web pages.

[Cinisajoy]

Just for fun, I did a search for ebooks on state symbols. I found 2. One was $2.99 and ranked 669,000 in the kindle store. The other one is $97 and ranks 2,763,275.
https://www.amazon.com/State-Names-S...=state+symbols
You might want to look at it as it is based on the book you are revising.