Samhain Publishing is winding down and will close

[Blossom]

Originally Posted by ZodWallop

As a customer, I feel the same way. But that's mainly because many of the backlist titles I buy run between $1.99-4.99.

(From a customer's perspective) What is a 'fair' price for a backlist fiction book?

The length of book is taking in consideration. For a Harlequin size book. 0.99-1.99 for a regular size novel 3.99 or less.

Judith McNaught's much coveted backlist titles were released at 7.99 now mark down to 6.99
Way too high for such dated books as they go on sale for 2.99 I'm grabbing them. I'm told they have OCR issues too. These are put out by Penguin I believe?

So my buy points are 0.00-3.99 for backlist titles.


Sent from my XT1528

[Blossom]

Originally Posted by Atunah

One author finally has the back list out, Patricia Veryan. I wanted those for years. MacMillan put them out at 7.99. In end of 2015 I believe. I am still waiting for them to come down in price or to find them at the library. Only one I can find there. If they had been 3.99, I would have already bought a few and read them. I own one, but I don't want to start reading it until the prices come down on the rest of them. Doesn't look like they will. So I keep waiting and asking my libraries one by one to buy them.
I am not paying 7.99 for books published in the 1980's.

I want to read those too but they are short books I believe. I'm not paying that price. Now if they was to bundle the series together for that price sure.

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[Blossom]

Originally Posted by AnemicOak

I've had some that weren't even worth their price of Free.

I have hundreds of freebies not worth it to read. It's too much work to go through them so they just sit in my Calibre library.

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[Blossom]

Originally Posted by pwalker8

I agree with the first part of this. All books were written at some point the past, the question is how far back in the past. As long as they come out at market price (i.e. the normal price for a paperback release) and it's a book that I want, I'm good with it. Writers have to eat, ya know.

Now, if you are talking about the price point of what will make me pull the trigger on a book from an author that I haven't read before and am not sure if I will like it, well that's a very different question.

You see in romance books can be dated due to how things have changed for women. First you have books written in the 70s-80s that have scenes of forced seduction, cruelty, abuse to women. The idea that women weren't allowed to enjoy their sexuality was also an issue back then. They can have very dated ideas. You won't find that in today's romance.

They were never 7.99 to began with. I'm pretty sure romance books never cost that much when they were published in the 70s-80s I'm not willing to pay that much for a book that's dated. I'm going to have to overlook things to enjoy even if I want to read it quite badly.

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[ZodWallop]

Originally Posted by fjtorres

That be true.
Samples are great there.
Won't save you from three chapter wonders but it keeps the real dreck at bay.

I've never downloaded a sample. For me, I go by reviews. It isn't too difficult to get past the obviously fake/friend of the author reviews. Usually I find a three star review is most helpful.

As for 'three chapter wonders' I check the page count. Then again, I don't mind a novella if it sounds good and the price is right.

[FizzyWater]

Originally Posted by Atunah

Many new releases in most of the genres I read are 5.99-7.99 from publishers.

So for me back list title, older stuff being re-released, I like to be in the 2.99-3.99 range. Anything up to 3.99 I buy without thinking to much. I mean buying something I already want. I don't ever buy anything randomly without vetting.
I'll also pay up to 5.99 for a author/series I am already hooked on. Otherwise the 6.99-7.99 I only pay for new releases of handful of super great authors I been waiting on. If I can't find it at the library that is.

Just my opinion, but I still remember when it was only print books, and I was so glad to see an out-of-print book I couldn't get my hands on (or people were payment outrageous prices for used copies on Amazon or Abebooks). They were almost always priced at whatever the going rate for mass market paperbacks at the time.

Then when ebooks came out, and many authors self-published their backlists, many seemed to choose prices between 2.99 and 4.99, and we became used to that.

These authors who are re-releasing via publishers, however, have to split the income with that publisher, and the mainstream publishers want to keep that old mentality of pricing them the going rate for MMPB. So you have Patricia Rice backlist selling for $3 and Nora Roberts for $8 (just thinking of a couple of authors I've seen lately).

[mbovenka]

Originally Posted by fjtorres

I don't distinguish between new releases and backlist.
Being fresh produce doesn't make a new book any better nor does being old make one any worse.
A read is a read is a read.
If I haven't read it, it's new.
If I've read it, it's price will be a function of my likelihood of rereading.

On the flip side, few if any books are worth more than $10 of my money.

For fiction, I used go up to $15 (I bought David Weber Baen eARCs) but I agree with the above. Non-fiction can be more if I really want the book (not often). But I am in the Netherlands, so $15 was about the price of a MMPB here at the time.

[fjtorres]

Originally Posted by ZodWallop

As for 'three chapter wonders' I check the page count. Then again, I don't mind a novella if it sounds good and the price is right.

Three chapter wonders isn't a term for short books.
It is a term for books that open great and go off the rails in the middle. It is a legacy term from the print world and the days where book submissions were typically the first 3 chapters and an outline. These days that results in a good sample but disapointment deeper in.

[Pajamaman]

Originally Posted by fjtorres

Risen.
Total indie sales have grown ridiculously over the last ten years. Even last year saw growth. The pie is still growing but the party has alot of gate crashers.

But, as I pointed out above, the indie game is no longer just about sales, so it's harder than ever to judge the size of the market. You can't go by retail dollars because of the pricing differential between Indie and tradpub and even among Indies when crossing genres. And with KU in the mix you can't go by unit sales either.

That's probably why Author Earnings normalizes their reporting to net author income, aggregated by path to market.

It's obvious indies have grown over ten years. We are discussing growth patterns over the last year or two. You say last year saw growth. That disagrees with anecdotal statements posted here. Perhaps there is growth, but more books.

[BearMountainBooks]

I think there is still some growth, but it is DIFFERENT growth--there are more indies EVERYWHERE and there are the same number of buyers -- or less buyers due to libraries picking up more ebooks, KU and other subscription services and freebies. So while there is growth, the pie is divided differently--just as when you asked whether KU hurt or helped writers. Well, it helped some, hurt others, but I'd say overall in depressed earnings of individual writers because the payout can be smaller for a popular author.

For example, over the last two years I priced my books at 2.99 for first in series, but they typically go to 3.99 for the next in a series. If my average made from KU is 2 dollars, I stand to lose money on any "second, third and fourth" in the series.

Freebies cut into my sales a lot because I didn't go free until fairly late in the game. By that time there was no real visibility with it. Right now I'd venture to say that giving away even the first in the series does an author very little good. Just look at the reader comments on this thread (and believe me, I pay attention to these types of things). "Sitting in calibre" "they are not worth free" "I might read them someday if I run out of books.)

But writers still try the technique and it may net them a sale of a second book now and then, but that's the exception, not the rule.

I also noted that while a few readers said they did not notice any difference in what Amazon shows them, a couple mentioned they never see Samhain. Hmm. So is it possible that Samhain, being a small publisher, is shown less than it used to be as I speculated early on? I have bought Samhain titles from Amazon (probably all of *Frank Tuttle's Samhain titles--UF--very good UF if you like UF!). Do I see his titles in my suggested list? No. Do I see any other Samhain titles in the suggested list? No. Did I used to see his other titles? Yes, yes, I did.


*Tuttle is no longer with Samhain, although some of his titles are if I understand how it worked out. He stopped publishing with them last year when they first talked about shutting down. I believe I bought one other author via Amazon that was from Samhain, also a UF sort of thing.

[Cinisajoy]

Maria,
On the not worth free, I did a simple study a few years back on good indies. At that time, you could be 90% sure to get a good indie book from the authors posting on one forum. 90% bad book if found through one of the cheap advertisers at the time. I redid that study in June 2015, I found that the ratio of good books had significantly changed and for the worse. Especially on that forum.
Note: The date I joined here. It is not a coincidence.
You will also notice I refuse to name that forum publicly. I don't want to give the owner and his cohorts even one dime accidentally.

When readers have been burned a few times, they tend to be leary.

[Pajamaman]

From what I can glean from the many different views, it sounds like there are more books, and KU is also hurting author earnings. This seems to be the main reason authors are suffering.

Originally Posted by BearMountainBooks

I also noted that while a few readers said they did not notice any difference in what Amazon shows them, a couple mentioned they never see Samhain. Hmm. So is it possible that Samhain, being a small publisher, is shown less than it used to be as I speculated early on? I have bought Samhain titles from Amazon (probably all of *Frank Tuttle's Samhain titles--UF--very good UF if you like UF!). Do I see his titles in my suggested list? No. Do I see any other Samhain titles in the suggested list? No. Did I used to see his other titles? Yes, yes, I did.

Also there is the issue of Amazon visibility. Has it changed or not? I guess it's hard to prove one way or the other. I doubt stats are available, and I'm sure amazon doesn't reveal any changes in its algorithms, so we can only go on anecdotal evidence, which is contradictory and debatable.

[BearMountainBooks]

You are right! Amazon doesn't tell and because each person's browsing habit is different, the results will be different. A chance I see might not be evident to someone else who never saw what I saw in the first place!

[Pajamaman]

Amazon came to an arrangement with the Big 6 a couple of years ago (the very public "negotiation" with Hachette, and the agreements that rapidly followed with the other BPHs afterward.) What arrangement did they reach? Was it publicized. Is it also a secret?

Edit: Oops. Bad edit.

[Pajamaman]

Originally Posted by BearMountainBooks

You are right! Amazon doesn't tell and because each person's browsing habit is different, the results will be different. A chance I see might not be evident to someone else who never saw what I saw in the first place!

I tend to bow to your greater experience on this. If you say it's so, I have to take that seriously. Also you speak to other writers. But do you think what you are seeing might be because there are more authors and works now, therefore reducing visibility because of increased competition? Or do you believe another factor is at work?