Gregg's Nearly Interminable Adventures in Linux Land

[DMcCunney]

Originally Posted by Gregg Bell

Hi Dennis. Good to see you. I started in .odt in LibreOffice. I converted it there to a .html. Then I put the html into Kate text editor and cleaned it up. From there I put the .html into Sigil. I could use the .odt but the thing is over the course of going over the mss. in Sigil I made changes that would not be in the .odt. So I must start with the .epub. And yes, the LibreOffice will save as a .docx.

No. You should go back the the original .odt file, and backport the changes you made after the fact in Sigil. Sigil isn't the place to make fundamental after-the-fact changes that produce the issue you are having. It is a tool to tweak the ePub output. It is not a tool to edit the content that went into it.

I strongly suspect that you will spend more time and trouble trying to turn ePub into docx than you would by just updating the odt file and doing a Save As docx.

I will investigate the Pandoc. Thanks.

You're welcome. You mkay find it a useful tool.
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Dennis

[Gregg Bell]

Originally Posted by DMcCunney

No. You should go back the the original .odt file, and backport the changes you made after the fact in Sigil. Sigil isn't the place to make fundamental after-the-fact changes that produce the issue you are having. It is a tool to tweak the ePub output. It is not a tool to edit the content that went into it.

I strongly suspect that you will spend more time and trouble trying to turn ePub into docx than you would by just updating the odt file and doing a Save As docx.


You're welcome. You mkay find it a useful tool.
______
Dennis

Thanks Dennis. I don't know how to backport from Sigil to .odt. If I had the original untouched .epub I could but as soon as I opened the epub I started making changes.

I was looking at pandoc and it's command line only. I couldn't get the latest version to install. (It opened up in the Software Center but did not install.) It is in Synaptic but it's an older version there. But I can get it.

Do you think Pandoc might convert epub>docx better than Calibre?

Is Pandoc pretty easy to use? Kind of like:

$ book.epub book.odt

?

Or is it really complicated?


(And I do my primary editing in the .odt. It's just any typos or tweaks may happen in .epub and it would be impossible to find out what they were to make the corresponding changes in the .odt.)

P.S. Pandoc did install. It just took so long I gave up on it.

P.S.S.I found the instructions for converting in Pandoc and am following them now.

[DMcCunney]

Originally Posted by Gregg Bell

Thanks Dennis. I don't know how to backport from Sigil to .odt. If I had the original untouched .epub I could but as soon as I opened the epub I started making changes.

You open up the .odt file in LibreOffice. You open the ePub in Sigll. You scroll through the Sigil content, and you manually input the changes into the odt in LO.

(Consider that the price you pay for making changes that extensive in Sigil. ePub is a good eBook storage format. It is not a good manuscript storage format.)

I was looking at pandoc and it's command line only. I couldn't get the latest version to install. (It opened up in the Software Center but did not install.) It is in Synaptic but it's an older version there. But I can get it.

Do you think Pandoc might convert epub>docx better than Calibre?

I don't know. I haven't tried to do that.

Is Pandoc pretty easy to use? Kind of like:

$ book.epub book.odt

Or is it really complicated?

What counts as complicated? Read the Pandoc documentation.

(And I do my primary editing in the .odt. It's just any typos or tweaks may happen in .epub and it would be impossible to find out what they were to make the corresponding changes in the .odt.)

Not impossible. Just more trouble than you wish to go through.

Next time, don't make the changes in the ePub in Sigil. Have the odt file open in LO when you review in Sigil, and make the changes you see needed in the odt, then generate a new copy of the ePub.

P.S. Pandoc did install. It just took so long I gave up on it.

You are running an older lower powered machine, so not surprising.

P.S.S.I found the instructions for converting in Pandoc and am following them now.

Let us know how you make out.
______
Dennis

[Gregg Bell]

Originally Posted by DMcCunney

You open up the .odt file in LibreOffice. You open the ePub in Sigll. You scroll through the Sigil content, and you manually input the changes into the odt in LO.

(Consider that the price you pay for making changes that extensive in Sigil. ePub is a good eBook storage format. It is not a good manuscript storage format.)


I don't know. I haven't tried to do that.


What counts as complicated? Read the Pandoc documentation.


Not impossible. Just more trouble than you wish to go through.

Next time, don't make the changes in the ePub in Sigil. Have the odt file open in LO when you review in Sigil, and make the changes you see needed in the odt, then generate a new copy of the ePub.


You are running an older lower powered machine, so not surprising.


Let us know how you make out.
______
Dennis

Pandoc was okay, Dennis. It would do some conversions and not others. It would do .odt to .docx but not epub to .docx. I'll experiment more with it though. At this point it seems to me Calibre is still the best (however flawed) for conversions. Thanks. Appreciate the help.

[Freeshadow]

Ahh, why the docx step if you intend to have a pdf when done?
LibreOffice exports to PDF directly

[Gregg Bell]

Originally Posted by Freeshadow

Ahh, why the docx step if you intend to have a pdf when done?
LibreOffice exports to PDF directly

No, I know Libre exports PDF. But the thing is my finished mss. is in epub. So I need to convert it to docx, then do a bunch of editing, before exporting the docx to a pdf.

[Freeshadow]

Originally Posted by Gregg Bell

No, I know Libre exports PDF. But the thing is my finished mss. is in epub. So I need to convert it to docx, then do a bunch of editing, before exporting the docx to a pdf.

Which is exactly why Dennis said one shouldn't use final-product file formats as work-in-progress file formats.

ePub is a good eBook storage format. It is not a good manuscript storage format.

Originally Posted by Dennis

Just more trouble than you wish to go through.

Next time, don't make the changes in the ePub in Sigil. Have the odt file open in LO when you review in Sigil, and make the changes you see needed in the odt, then generate a new copy of the ePub.

Done this way and having writer2epub installed would give you epub and pdf with two clicks.

[Gregg Bell]

Originally Posted by Freeshadow

Which is exactly why Dennis said one shouldn't use final-product file formats as work-in-progress file formats.


Done this way and having writer2epub installed would give you epub and pdf with two clicks.

Thanks Freeshadow. I hear you. As a writer, though, you often make a lot of tweaks to your books, especially in the backmatter. And your method sounds great, but I don't know how LO handles images. I'm big on Sigil. So even if I make the tweaks in Sigil and then the tweaks back in LO, it's a lot to keep track of. Did I make the tweaks in the LO this time? That sort of thing. To me, all I focus on is the epub I made in Sigil. I don't know how LO is going to handle tweaks. I don't know what kind of epubs Writer2Epub makes. I trust Sigil and making the changes in the Code View. If it makes more work, well, okay, but it affords peace of mind.

[DMcCunney]

Originally Posted by Gregg Bell

Thanks Freeshadow. I hear you. As a writer, though, you often make a lot of tweaks to your books, especially in the backmatter. And your method sounds great, but I don't know how LO handles images. I'm big on Sigil. So even if I make the tweaks in Sigil and then the tweaks back in LO, it's a lot to keep track of. Did I make the tweaks in the LO this time? That sort of thing. To me, all I focus on is the epub I made in Sigil. I don't know how LO is going to handle tweaks. I don't know what kind of epubs Writer2Epub makes. I trust Sigil and making the changes in the Code View. If it makes more work, well, okay, but it affords peace of mind.

That parses here as "I don't want to take the trouble to learn how to properly use my tools. So instead of doing it right initially, I'll take twice as long to do it over down the road fixing errors I shouldn't have made in the first place."

Greg, the single most valuable thing you possess is your time, and it's the thing you must invest wisely. I'm older than you, and may be more conscious of my own mortality, but people who do not properly invest their time dismay me.

"I don't know how LO handles images." Greg, you are a craftsman. LO is one of your critical tools. If you want to practice your craft effectively, you must learn to properly use your tools. If you do, you are on your way to mastery of your craft. If you don't, you are a putterer and an amateur, your likelihood of accomplishing anything is slim, and you shouldn't lie to yourself pretending otherwise.

Learn how LO handles images by using them in it. Sigil is not intended for the use you are making of it.

I do occasional DTP projects. I import Word documents into my DTP program to do layout, markup, and typesetting. The DTP program has the capability of performing edits on the text, but that capability is intend for extremely minor edits, like correcting the odd typo before I output a PDF for the printer. What you're doing with Sigil sounds like what would happen to me if I tried to do any significant composition in the DTP program after the fact. If I did, I'd be doing it wrong, just as you are now.

Do yourself a favor and attain mastery of your tools. Your work will be better for it, and so will you.
______
Dennis

[Freeshadow]

That's what I was thinking about.
Yes. USE Sigil for tweaks. Do it excessively and extensively. But do it for epub related tweaks not for the content related ones. Content tools for the content and format tools for the distribution container(s). Everything else is just like being up to your ass in a quicksand pit. Every additional move pulls you deeper in.

[PeterT]

I know there are compare tools (at least under Windows) that compare the contents of zip files. Wouldn't one option be to recreate the epub from LO and then compare the tweaked epub to the newly created one to determine the changes that had been made, and then apply them to the ODT in LO?

[DMcCunney]

Originally Posted by PeterT

I know there are compare tools (at least under Windows) that compare the contents of zip files. Wouldn't one option be to recreate the epub from LO and then compare the tweaked epub to the newly created one to determine the changes that had been made, and then apply them to the ODT in LO?

I doubt it.

I'm in a conversation elsewhere with a chap spitting mad because of requirements his publisher made that are making his life hell, and asked "Are there any reputable mathematical publishers using git for version control?" All I could say was "I don't know of any trade publisher using git." The standard workflow is "Get the manuscript as a Word doc, do line edits, copy edits and proof reading on teh doc file, and import the approved final copy into Adobe InDesign for markup and typesetting to produce the file for the printer. "Version control" is through Word's Track Changes function.

The folks in publishing are non-technical and would be lost at sea in git. It would need a wrapper that insulated them from the underlying software as much as possible.

Tools that can search inside a zip file for changes must essentially open it and examine the contents. How well they'll do will depend on the content. I don't see this as being a viable notion, but could be mistaken.

And Greg works under Linux, so Windows based tools that might do it won't help him much.
_______
Dennis

[PeterT]

BeyondCompare and Guiffy are two such tools.

And yes, I've followed Greg's adventures for a long time.

[DMcCunney]

Originally Posted by PeterT

BeyondCompare and Guiffy are two such tools.

I'm familiar with Beyond Compare. I believe a version is bundled as a plugin with JPSoftware's Take Command GUI CMD.EXE replacement tool. (I use the freeware TCC-LE character mode version. I don't need what full Take Command offers.) I'm not familiar with Guiffy.

What I run here is the open source WinMerge which is open source, cross platform, and runs in Windows and Linux.

An outfit called Component Software used to offer a diff tool for Windows that could handle Word and Excel files, back when MS was still using proprietary binary formats for the files. CS no longer exists.

But with a variant of XML as the underlying file format for MS Office files, and OpenOffice/LibreOffice following suit, life should be simpler.

XML files are text based formats, and it ought to be possible to store and version them in something like git. I haven't seen solutions specifically intended for that, but I've had no cause to look. I have a current version of LO, and an older version of MS Office installed here, but seldom have cause to use either.
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Dennis

[Freeshadow]

@Dennis I wonder that a professional publisher specializing in mathematical stuff uses InDesign. That because I've read that especially when it comes to composing mathematical formulas LaTeX (guis like LyX were recommended) give quality wise much better pdfs than Adobe's own tools ever did.