Cheaper e-books will kill us, says publisher

[Lemurion]

Originally Posted by BuddyBoy

My only quibble would be that the $6 represents a wholesale price since no retailer is involved (and thus equates to $12 retail), and your - and their - definition of profitable may not be enough. What's their ROI? There are a lot of business eeking our a living for the love of what they do, but in a larger business sense, I wouldn't really consider them "profitable."

Baen doesn't actually sell them directly - they sell through Arnold Bailey's Webscriptions storefront which is a separate entity. In addition to Baen, both NightShade Books and Subterranean Press also sell through Webscriptions at the $6.00 price point.

It's at least self-sustaining.

As to definitions of profitable: Baen books thinks it's profitable and while they're not one of the conglomerates, they are one of the larger independent publishers. (They were set up to provide an SF/F arm for Simon and Shuster to distribute). I do know they make more from eBooks than from all foreign sales combined - so that certainly implies that $6.00 is a reasonable price for DRM-free eBooks.

[Charbax]

Publishers are not needed anymore.

Google Books will host and store the ebook released directly by the author to its public.

Authors will get paid directly by readers, supported by readers, and new Obama law should make it so that artists and authors are paid through an art tax based on the popularity and the quality of their work. Popularity can be very precisely measured using computer and Internet technology. Quality can be measured by a ratings system. Every rate for the stuff they like a lot, this way the system knows how to find out which authors are well liked and by how many readers.

Anyways publishers, distributors, book stores, book marketing and all that should just go away and do something else. They have become absolutely irrelevant.

[13xforever]

Originally Posted by Vaseline

Really? This sounds like some sort of ebook heaven.

Well, it's just because all this eBook business is at birth stage here. So, the ebook stores try very hard to bring more customers to them. I fear that after a few years, it may be all different and not in a good way.
But I really hope that I wrong.

Worst thing though, that we don't have any foreign authors, because our publishers can't get license to publish translations in electronic form (aka ebooks). This is really sad, because, although our homegrown authors are good and all, they're just a tiny bit of worldwide literature fond.

[zyzzyva57]

This publisher is simply refusing to acknowledge the old adage (besides Location, Location, Location): It is about Volume (study Walmart)--MOVE THE PRODUCT AND STOP TRYING TO BULK THE TREND

One of Microsoft's big problem is trying to bulk the trend, e.g., IE vs FireFox

[kacir]

Well, the german publisher Holtzbrinck, the owner of TOR might have a different attitude than Mr. Michael Justus has.
Check the Forbes article written by an absolute expert for giving away the e-books - Cory Doctorow

The article is old, but I have just seen it referenced in another thread and I thought it was very relevant for this thread.

Quote from
http://www.forbes.com/2006/11/30/cor...1doctorow.html
...
How did I talk Tor Books into letting me do this? It's not as if Tor is a spunky dotcom upstart. They're the largest science fiction publisher in the world, and they're a division of the German publishing giant Holtzbrinck.
...

[yagiz]

By the way, I think nobody has mentioned it yet. Orbit are doing a $1-ebook for a month on a selected title:

http://www.onedollarorbit.com/

This month's title is "Use of Weapons" from "Iain M. Banks". I bought the last month's title and I'm buying this one too, despite the fact that I own a hardback copy. I just think that I need to support initiatives like that. What's $1/month these days anyway...

Upcoming $1 Ebooks:
March: Empress by Karen Miller
April: Winterbirth by Brian Ruckley
May: One Bitten Twice Shy by Jennifer Rardin

So, I decided to support this regardless of the title. I think we should all give it a thought .

By the way, I'm buying them from Fictionwise...

[astra]

But only in 2 secure formats, ereader and mobipocket

Originally Posted by Charbax

Publishers are not needed anymore.

Anyways publishers, distributors, book stores, book marketing and all that should just go away and do something else. They have become absolutely irrelevant.

Hmmm, as much as I agree with you, I must also disagree with you.

The way the realm of print is there is a need for publishers, distributors, etc etc. But the thing is that there is a need for 2 different forms of them. One for the standard dead tree format that has been around and served the world well for many years and another for the competing digital sector.

Even though they are called the same they emphasize and use completely separate systems to deliver the material to the end users. The problem comes when they try and force all of it into the same procedure and spreadsheet, something not easily or competently done.

Why do we need any of these people with digital? Properly done (something that is just now starting to happen) a publisher can act as a management system helping authors navigate the legal and market trails that abound in the real world. They can help supply interested authors with tools to produce better books (since the better the book, the better the return on investment). Publishing can change from buying a product from a writer to acting as a service provider, exchanging percentage for things like final editing, format conversion, discounted programs for previous authors. Something as seemingly simple as providing an online location with links to similar books from the same house would be of immense benefit to a writer and well worth a percentage.

Book stores? Well, the best thing there is that you don't have to hunt for books. Again, the name is the same but the function and services offered change. Rarely will I find a book by going to the authors website (especially a new writer) while I will often find one while browsing for similar titles. It's starting to become more common to see tags such as "if you like this author, try these" or "if you like this book, look at this one" on the booklist itself or in the little discussion box that may accompany it. With the numerous authors, both new and experienced, that exist out there, for the end reader to be able to go to a central place and search for books is more crucial than ever.

Just look at two of the most popular bookstores for Mobileread visitors: BooksOnBoard and Fictionwise. Make no mistake, they are bookstores and if you were to propose to people on these forums that they weren't needed and generally useless...well, you would probably be able to hear the laughter even without being online.

Again, I agree with you that the current system for publishing, distributing and selling books has no real place in the digital world but I do believe these businesses do have a place in publishing, just not as they exist now.

[pilotbob]

Originally Posted by kacir

Check the Forbes article written by an absolute expert for giving away the e-books - Cory Doctorow

Except that his concept only works if you are also publishing pbooks and most people buy pbooks.

If a publisher wants to self publish ebooks only, giving them away hoping to get name recognition so he will sell more paper books doesn't really work.

Also Doctorow's marketing plan won't work in 20 years where the majority of books are ebooks and paper is basically relegated to museums.

BOb

[Alisa]

Originally Posted by pilotbob

Except that his concept only works if you are also publishing pbooks and most people buy pbooks.

If a publisher wants to self publish ebooks only, giving them away hoping to get name recognition so he will sell more paper books doesn't really work.

Also Doctorow's marketing plan won't work in 20 years where the majority of books are ebooks and paper is basically relegated to museums.

BOb

Yep. Reading devices are still pretty rare so most people who download his books are going to read them on their computer. They probably don't want to read the entire thing on their computer so once they figure out they like it well enough, they go buy the paper copy. Even though people have the whole book, it functions more like a free sample in this case and samples are an effective marketing tool.

[pdurrant]

Cory Doctorow seems to me to have got one thing completely wrong. He asserts that because digital stuff is so easy to copy, no-one will be able to make money selling ebooks, because they'll just be downloaded for free from the 'darknet' by everyone.

This completely ignores the music industry's experience. MP3s of almost anything are available on the 'darknet', but the Apple iTunes Store now sells more music in the US than anyone else. Digital downloads now account for a significant percentage of total music sales, and that percentage looks set to rise still further, as digital sales increase and CD sales decrease.

The same is likely to happen with ebooks. I don't see the digital revolution as bringing in a fundamental change to the way authors get paid - in royalties on each copy sold (as an advance or otherwise).

There are three things holding back ebooks at the moment
1) Lack of cheap, good, robust readers. eInk's good, but too slow. Ideally we want something with <0.1s page change, and as good or higher resolution and contrast than eInk. And under $100. It'll happen within the next ten years.
2) Multiple formats. It'll take a while for the format wars to go away. ePub looks set to be the winner here, in the end.
3) DRM. It adds costs. It makes things harder for consumers. It doesn't work. The sooner publishers realise that DRM is a cost that does them no good the better.

Originally Posted by Alisa

Yep. Reading devices are still pretty rare so most people who download his books are going to read them on their computer. They probably don't want to read the entire thing on their computer so once they figure out they like it well enough, they go buy the paper copy. Even though people have the whole book, it functions more like a free sample in this case and samples are an effective marketing tool.

[pilotbob]

Originally Posted by pdurrant

This completely ignores the music industry's experience. MP3s of almost anything are available on the 'darknet', but the Apple iTunes Store now sells more music in the US than anyone else.

Agreed, that also applies to Movies and TV shows. Most of them can be found and downloaded. But, people still buy and rent them.

BOb

[Elfwreck]

I don't think it'll be as little as 20 years before ebooks are the standard; pbooks have a *lot* of inertia behind them. (Internet news has not replaced TV or newspaper news, nor does it look like it's about to.)

Radio didn't vanish when television showed up, but it did change. Pulp magazines didn't vanish when color got cheap enough to use that--but there are less of them now, and they're different. And candles and oil lamps haven't vanished now that we have electric lights. Pbooks are going to be useful for a long, long time. They have an accessibility and permanence that ebooks can't rival.

I'm aware that most reading isn't done with permanence in mind, and most readers aren't concerned with universal accessibility, just their own personal version. But the lack of a universal format (and I expect that to stick around, just like the lack of a universal OS)will continue to be a distraction and barrier, and the lack of coherent copyright laws will continue to hinder progress in development and public use. I think the combination of these things will add substantial time to ebooks becoming near-universal.

I suppose that could change if someone comes up with a $150 e-ink reader that could be distributed at public schools instead of textbooks.

[pilotbob]

Originally Posted by Elfwreck

I don't think it'll be as little as 20 years before ebooks are the standard; pbooks have a *lot* of inertia behind them. (Internet news has not replaced TV or newspaper news, nor does it look like it's about to.)

20 years is a long time in technology. Also, I didn't say it will "replace" them. (ok maybe the museum comment implied that) But they will certainly be mainstream.

BOb

[Greg Anos]

I put this over on the "Death of Copyright" thread, bu it seems appropriate here as well.

Here's an related quote from today's <2/6> (well in the inside of the paper) Wall Street Journal from the music world....

"Warner Music Post Unexpected Profit"

"Warner Music recorded a 23 million dollar profit compared to a 16 million dollar loss the year earlier....Revenues decreased 11%....Recorded music revenue fell 12%, while digital revenue - which now makes up 20% of total revenue - rose 18%....In November, Warner's Atlantic Records became the first major label to have US digital sales outstrip audio CD sales."

WSJ Southwest Edition, page B7


Apparently some of the music industry is starting to do what's necessary to survive. If only the book business could learn to think.....