Bob Dylan wins Nobel Prize for Literature

[kennyc]

all literature is is words. Hmmmm...
adapted words.....hmmm...

[tubemonkey]

Originally Posted by kennyc

all literature is is words. Hmmmm...
adapted words.....hmmm...

...and if you don't know the words, hum

[kennyc]

Good point!

[william z]

Originally Posted by Cinisajoy

If Rudy Vallee was the most popular, then why did Bing Crosby show up but Rudy didn't in a quick Google search?
Most of the younger generation probably hasn't heard of Rudy Vallee either or Bing Crosby for that matter.

Oh on protest songs, my daughter texted me the other day about Ohio. She wanted to know who sang it. She loves the song.

Ok, I have a song for you. Turn, Turn, turn. Are the words literature or song lyrics?

Maybe your search was a little too quick. I did a search myself and found this:

"For the documentary film of the same name, see Brother, Can You Spare a Dime? (film).
Brother, Can You Spare a Dime?, also sung as Buddy, Can You Spare a Dime?, is one of the best-known American songs of the Great Depression. Written in 1930 by lyricist E. Y. "Yip" Harburg and composer Jay Gorney, "Brother, Can You Spare a Dime?" was part of the 1932 musical Americana;the melody is based on a Russian-Jewish lullaby Gorney's mother had sung to him as a child. It was considered by Republicans to be anti-capitalist propaganda, and almost dropped from the show; attempts were made to ban it from the radio. The song became best known, however, through recordings by Bing Crosby and Rudy Vallee. They were released right before Franklin Delano Roosevelt's election to the presidency. The Brunswick Crosby recording became the best-selling record of its period, and came to be viewed as an anthem to the shattered dreams of the era"

If Harburg wrote the lyrics, aren't the lyrics the words of the song?

Both Rudy Vallee and Bing Crosby were very popular singers of the day. The Vallee version is the one I am most familiar with although apparently Crosby's version sold more records. I too doubt if very many young people ever heard of either Rudy Vallee or Bing Crosby. One of my favorite depression era songs was "Happy Days Are Here Again" as sung by Annette Hanshaw; the song was written in 1929 and became the campaign song for FDR in 1932. Bit of a contradiction because the depression lasted several years more.

""Turn! Turn! Turn! (To Everything There Is a Season)" — often abbreviated to "Turn! Turn! Turn!" — is a song written by Pete Seeger in the late 1950s. The lyrics, except for the title which is repeated throughout the song and the final two lines, are adapted word-for-word from the English version of the first eight verses of the third chapter of the biblical Book of Ecclesiastes."
So maybe the words are actually literature and not exactly song lyrics?

I was not familiar with the song "Ohio" but looked it up and listened to it on YouTube. It is by Crosby Stills Nash & Young. The lyrics were written by Young.

But I still do not think that Bob Dylan deserved the Nobel Prize for literature.

[Cinisajoy]

You have made that final point very clear.
And by quick search I meant specifically I put brother can you spare a dime in a Google search.
What I posted was the top two things.

[AnotherCat]

Originally Posted by william z

...But I fail to see how song lyrics could be classed as literature - whether you like them or not.

Whether one likes them or not lyrics are artistic writings and artistic writings of merit are regarded as literature.

But perhaps you disagree and think that artistic writings of merit are not literature, or perhaps that lyrics cannot ever achieve artistic merit, or that lyrics are not artistic at all, or that lyrics are not writings,...?

[frahse]

Originally Posted by william z

But I still do not think that Bob Dylan deserved the Nobel Prize for literature.

I agree. Bob Dylan is a great songwriter, and I love many of his songs, but he didn't deserve a Nobel Prize in the literature field.

Likewise President Obama can give a great speech, but doesn't deserve a Novel Peace Prize.


Still there is long history of Nobel Prizes being rewarded for what were later determined to be wrong reasons.
My favorite is --

"Danish scientist Johannes Fibiger won the 1926 medicine award for discovering that a roundworm caused cancer in rats.

There was only one problem: The roundworm didn't cause cancer in rats.

Fibiger insisted his research showed that rats ingesting worm larvae by eating cockroaches developed cancer. At the time he won the prize, the Nobel judges thought that made perfect sense.

It later turned out the rats developed cancer from a lack of vitamin A.

Oops."

http://www.latimes.com/world/la-fg-n...nap-story.html

[HarryT]

Originally Posted by frahse

Still there is long history of Nobel Prizes being rewarded for what were later determined to be wrong reasons.

What percentage of prizes are subsequently determined to be based on flawed research? I rather suspect that it's small.

[Billi]

Originally Posted by william z

But I still do not think that Bob Dylan deserved the Nobel Prize for literature.

And I sincerely hope that Bob Dylan was "the door opener", that the Nobel Price Committee will honour other song-writers at regular intervals.

[Apache]

I still maintain that music is poetry set to music. Some are very good and a lot are not. And what one person considers good and bad are going to be different than other people think is good or bad.
Apache

[issybird]

There's an interesting Op-Ed piece In today's NY Times about Dylan's lack of response. Overall I find it persuasive, even if there's a tinge of sour grapes in regard to the Academy's response to American lit as a whole.

[kennyc]

Originally Posted by Apache

I still maintain that music is poetry set to music. Some are very good and a lot are not. And what one person considers good and bad are going to be different than other people think is good or bad.
Apache

Wow! Just like literature!

[kennyc]

Originally Posted by issybird

There's an interesting Op-Ed piece In today's NY Times about Dylan's lack of response. Overall I find it persuasive, even if there's a tinge of sour grapes in regard to the Academy's response to American lit as a whole.

Yep! I saw that linked from elsewhere.

Dylan gonna Dylan!

"....There is a good deal of poetic justice in this turn of events. For almost a quarter of a century, ever since Toni Morrison won the Nobel in 1993, the Nobel committee acted as if American literature did not exist — and now an American is acting as if the Nobel committee doesn’t exist. Giving the award to Mr. Dylan was an insult to all the great American novelists and poets who are frequently proposed as candidates for the prize. The all-but-explicit message was that American literature, as traditionally defined, was simply not good enough. This is an absurd notion, but one that the Swedes have embraced: In 2008, the Academy’s permanent secretary, Horace Engdahl, declared that American writers “don’t really participate in the big dialogue of literature” and are limited by that “ignorance.”...."

[doubleshuffle]

How many times must American writers win a Nobel
so that American journos will not feel slighted?

[william z]

Originally Posted by AnotherCat

Whether one likes them or not lyrics are artistic writings and artistic writings of merit are regarded as literature.

But perhaps you disagree and think that artistic writings of merit are not literature, or perhaps that lyrics cannot ever achieve artistic merit, or that lyrics are not artistic at all, or that lyrics are not writings,...?

I think no such thing. But I do not think song lyrics are literature in the same sense that bodies of fiction or poetry are; if any song lyric writer thinks his or her work is poetry and stand alone without music, then they should publish it as poetry(if they could find a publisher) and see if anybody reads it If they want to create a Nobel Prize for song lyrics, fine. Songs are songs, not literature. I doubt if very many people actually read song lyrics, they listen to the words as they are sung and the music.

Or are you saying that music is literature?