New Kindles?

[AnemicOak]

Originally Posted by JSWolf

Yes,you are asking for too much. There needs to be some heft to these devices so they are easier to hold. There also needs to be more room for a battery that holds more of a charge. So that means no more thinner and lighter. Just pick a decent size and leave it at that. If batteries do get smaller, then we can have even more battery life as there will be plenty of size for a good battery.

So pick a case that will make it thicker if it's too thin for you (I personally don't need thin, but it's obviously a concern to many). Want more battery? More weight? You just need to get someone to start making battery cases for readers.
https://www.amazon.com/Kensington-Ac.../dp/B0041RRRUE

[NullNix]

Originally Posted by 344a

I was saying lighter, not smaller. What I was trying to say is, I wish we would have some new technologies to make the batteries lighter and more eco-friendly in the near future. It would be better if people invent something new to replace the batteries, since the batteries are so toxic to the earth.

Lithium-ion batteries are actually much less toxic than NiCad ever were. Heavy metal chemistry is horribly toxic, but heavy metals don't make very good batteries because they're, well, heavy. Lithium is sufficiently non-toxic that it's used as a long-term pharmaceutical. (It does have that little burst into flames problem, but that doesn't make it harmful to the environment per se, or sodium metal would be far worse -- it's much more reactive than lithium and much heavier.)

All the advances I see coming down the pipeline in the next decade involve much reduced charging time (things now in the lab can fully charge in a few seconds, if you can jam enough power in) or much increased charge/discharge lifespan (now in the lab: on the order of millions of charges). There is very little progress being made on energy density; certainly nothing greater than an order of magnitude seems to be on the cards. This is unsurprising: in the absence of a wholesale rethinking of electrochemical charge storage, all we can do to up the energy density is to use something lighter than lithium, but hydrogen doesn't seem very amenable to making batteries out of, and even that would only give a factor-of-three improvement.

[AnemicOak]

Originally Posted by John F

Would a plastic vs glass substrate make a weight difference?

How about a plastic screen vs a glass screen?

There are probably more ways and different trade offs (ergonomics, ruggedness, cost, ...)

A 13.3" Mobius screen (plastic substrate) weighs 63g. A glass substrate screen of the same size weighs 144g

[JSWolf]

Originally Posted by NullNix

See, that's just your belief -- you apparently consider it essential that an e-reader contain enough battery for a 12-hour marathon reading session unpunctuated by the demands of biology, and that things like being able to hold the thing and turn pages with one hand are unimportant. Myself, I consider the latter more important than the former: my hands won't hurt while I'm reading, I can drink a coffee without even putting the book down, and who cares if the battery is half-drained in six hours or so? I'm going to eat something at some point in that timespan, and when I'm doing that I'm using both hands and the e-reader is flat on the table, in its cover, recharging...

I can easily hold my H2O one handed. It's got enough heft to it to be easy to hold. It's in a book style case and that helps make it easier to hold. As for turning the page, again, not a problem holding one handed.

One thing is that most users didn't complain the the H2O or Voyage are too big and/or too heavy. Since they didn't complain, then there was no need for the Oasis. (IMHO), the Oasis is an awful design with with a rather pathetic battery. The battery will only last 1/2 as long as the Voyage because it has to be charged twice as much.

[JSWolf]

Originally Posted by AnemicOak

So pick a case that will make it thicker if it's too thin for you (I personally don't need thin, but it's obviously a concern to many). Want more battery? More weight? You just need to get someone to start making battery cases for readers.
https://www.amazon.com/Kensington-Ac.../dp/B0041RRRUE

The idea is to have the battery be even stronger to give even more time between charges. So making the Reader thinner means you have to have a thinner battery. That means you may not be able to get more battery life because you cannot have a strong enough battery because it won't fit.

[HarryT]

Originally Posted by JSWolf

One thing is that most users didn't complain the the H2O or Voyage are too big and/or too heavy. Since they didn't complain, then there was no need for the Oasis.

Why do you object to people being given a choice? I too prefer the Voyage to the Oasis, but it's good that people have the choice of the lighter and smaller device if that is their personal preference.

[JSWolf]

Originally Posted by HarryT

Why do you object to people being given a choice? I too prefer the Voyage to the Oasis, but it's good that people have the choice of the lighter and smaller device if that is their personal preference.

A choice is fine, but this choice is eventually going to take away this choice. As the H2O and Voyage are no longer made, we'll be stuck with thinner lighter Readers with not as good battery life.

[AnemicOak]

Originally Posted by JSWolf

The idea is to have the battery be even stronger to give even more time between charges. So making the Reader thinner means you have to have a thinner battery. That means you may not be able to get more battery life because you cannot have a strong enough battery because it won't fit.

Thanks for the obvious.

That would be the point of some kind of battery case. If YOU are okay with the extra thickness and weight a larger battery would add then you could add that as part of the case you insist everyone needs anyway.


Personally I'm fine with the battery life I get from my device right now and if it was a little less, that wouldn't bother me either.

[barryem]

You guys need to recognize that Wolf is a black and white Wolf, he has no gray.

Barry

[JSWolf]

Originally Posted by barryem

You guys need to recognize that Wolf is a black and white Wolf, he has no gray.

Barry

The problem is that the trend is to move towards thinner/lighter. If the trend was to go with thinner/lighter in addition to, then there would not be any problem.

A good example of this trend being just wrong is Apple. Look at the iPhone 7's last of a 3.5mm headphone jack. Apple made the iPhone 7 too thin.

[Bob B]

Originally Posted by John F

Would a plastic vs glass substrate make a weight difference?

How about a plastic screen vs a glass screen?

There are probably more ways and different trade offs (ergonomics, ruggedness, cost, ...)

OK, let's make the screens plastic. Then, in the future, we can read endless posts about scratched screens and how everybody wishes the screens were glass.

[HarryT]

Originally Posted by Bob B

OK, let's make the screens plastic. Then, in the future, we can read endless posts about scratched screens and how everybody wishes the screens were glass.

The outer screen of all eInk Kindles except the Voyage is plastic. The Voyage is the only one with a glass outer screen. We were discussing the screen substrate, not the outer screen that the user touches.

[NullNix]

Originally Posted by JSWolf

One thing is that most users didn't complain the the H2O or Voyage are too big and/or too heavy. Since they didn't complain, then there was no need for the Oasis. (IMHO), the Oasis is an awful design with with a rather pathetic battery. The battery will only last 1/2 as long as the Voyage because it has to be charged twice as much.

There is a term for this: "tyranny of the majority". It's what leads to ergonomically pleasant things being insanely expensive, because people with (say) crippling RSI are a small market and so of course it is entirely reasonable to have to spend $1000 on a keyboard (like hell it is).

I'm very glad Amazon felt the need to come up with something suitable for people who don't like to (or cannot) hold nearly a third of a kilo one-handed indefinitely, and I'd appreciate it if you'd stop claiming that just because you don't want such a thing, most people don't want it, and thus it should not exist at all. What harm does its existence do to you, anyway? It can't be a simple hatred of a choice existing, or you'd not be so wildly in favour of the existence of any and all non-Amazon e-readers.

[Cinisajoy]

Originally Posted by JSWolf

I can easily hold my H2O one handed. It's got enough heft to it to be easy to hold. It's in a book style case and that helps make it easier to hold. As for turning the page, again, not a problem holding one handed.

One thing is that most users didn't complain the the H2O or Voyage are too big and/or too heavy. Since they didn't complain, then there was no need for the Oasis. (IMHO), the Oasis is an awful design with with a rather pathetic battery. The battery will only last 1/2 as long as the Voyage because it has to be charged twice as much.

Proof on the lack of complaints please. Maybe numerous people suggested to Amazon that they would like a more ergonomic, lighter reader.
There is a market for the Oasis.

And where is the proof they are doing away with the Voyage or the Paperwhite or the basic?

[jbjb]

Originally Posted by NullNix

My Oasis internal device battery has run low twice -- both times when I was trying to run it out. I've never even got a low-battery warning otherwise, and I never even look at the battery life. I wouldn't have believed it either, but combined with the case battery, the tiny six-hour-or-so battery really is long enough: there is no need for a larger one, and any weight spent on it woudl be weight wasted. You just have to treat the case as part of the device, and get into the habit of snapping it back in whenever you're not actually reading.

That matches my experience exactly.

Since I got my Oasis, battery life hasn't been something I've had to think about at all. Even on long-haul flights I've found that there are enough natural breaks where I just instinctively put the reader back in its cover that I'm nowhere near running out.

For my usage pattern, the Oasis has hit the sweet spot - I get a reader that's really comfortable to hold, but still has a battery life that is long enough to exceed anything I will ever need.

Other people will clearly have different needs, but for me the Oasis hits the spot.