Dealing with Amazon can be a right pain

[JSWolf]

Due to geo-restirctions, a lot of series are fully unavailable in some countries. This is no different. It's like finishing a book that ends in a cliffhanger and not being able to buy the next eBook.

[darryl]

@Timboli. It is time to take stock of the situation. You have been advised to email Jeff Bezos directly. Indications are that these emails are taken seriously by Amazon which will likely lead to someone at least taking a proper look at your problem. Have you done this?

It has also been suggested that you try to obtain a copy of the book directly from the author, with whom you are in contact. Are you pursuing this? How is it going?

And it has been suggested that you use a VPN to circumvent geo-blocking. This can as you say be an involved process and involve some expenditure, and of course can conceivably result in you losing your Amazon account. I do, however, seem to recall that you did access the site through some browser-based VPN and a buy button did appear. Did you try using that buy button? If you did, what happened? My apologies if my recollection is faulty on this but I'm a bit lazy and pushed for time so haven't reread the thread.

If none of these things work for you it is time to give up. You have done your utmost, and whilst I understand your position and do think you should be able to purchase a copy of the book in questions, when you look at things in perspective it is time to move on.

[Timboli]

Originally Posted by darryl

@Timboli. It is time to take stock of the situation. You have been advised to email Jeff Bezos directly. Indications are that these emails are taken seriously by Amazon which will likely lead to someone at least taking a proper look at your problem. Have you done this?

I am still seriously considering doing that, but are just waiting a bit first.

It has also been suggested that you try to obtain a copy of the book directly from the author, with whom you are in contact. Are you pursuing this? How is it going?

Still haven't heard back since I connected via email. One of those bits I am waiting for.

And it has been suggested that you use a VPN to circumvent geo-blocking. This can as you say be an involved process and involve some expenditure, and of course can conceivably result in you losing your Amazon account. I do, however, seem to recall that you did access the site through some browser-based VPN and a buy button did appear. Did you try using that buy button? If you did, what happened? My apologies if my recollection is faulty on this but I'm a bit lazy and pushed for time so haven't reread the thread.

Clicking the button required me to log in to my account. As soon as I did that, it said I could not purchase the ebook. I could have created a new account, but you need a credit card number for that, plus I would have needed a US business address as well. That last is probably no issue, just pick anyone at random from what I read.

If none of these things work for you it is time to give up. You have done your utmost, and whilst I understand your position and do think you should be able to purchase a copy of the book in questions, when you look at things in perspective it is time to move on.

For why should I give up anything. I am alerting others, having a discussion, letting some steam off. Like I said earlier, by returning the first three I have kind of given up on getting a good outcome. If I had known of the Jeff Bezos contact before I did that, this may be a different story. If I go down that route now, then I have to re-invest myself again, and be prepared for failure again.

At the moment I am just using group discussion therapy.

I am also not adverse to playing Devil's Advocate ... makes for a lively discussion, and you get to know people quicker that way.

If I hear from the author and he offers a positive outcome, then my intention is to buy the ebooks again, probably as the combined release with the 4th. So long as I don't end up paying more overall.

And there is still a small possibility that I may still hear back eventually from Amazon, all apologetic, and sorry for the mistake.

So not time to give up yet, that I can see.

Righteous anger can carry you a long way, and I'm still living my life and doing other things meanwhile. The issue is in its place, where I occasionally reflect on it. I'm not bursting a heart valve over it though.

In a way, I am making something positive out of a negative. Can't have what I want, so I'm doing something else related, to temper my angst.

[Cinisajoy]

Or perhaps, Amazon will refund all the Kindle World books you bought and take them all back.
Since according to Amazon, you were not supposed to get them anyway.

Why do you want to wait? Amazon has nothing to apologize for.

I must ask since you are so upset with the Big A, have you bought anything from them since they denied that purchase?

[LadyKate]

Originally Posted by Timboli

Exactly.

I am not someone who bothers to contact Amazon for every unfair restriction I find. This was beyond the pale though, as it meant the story I had was incomplete.

I am a great fan of Robin Hobb, who has released a novella, Words Like Coins, that I and other non-Americans cannot currently purchase. Like many, I have complained to her privately. She blames her publisher, apologizes and says she has no say.

I have all the other books in her series, in which the novella is set, but it is not required reading, not an integral part of the series, and so I can survive without it. Sure I feel cheated, but not in the same way as with the 4th part of a story ... especially as that part is the ending.

I have also complained about Kindle Worlds publications that I cannot purchase. I know about them because of newsletters from authors I follow.

Amazon's author information for writing for the Kindle Worlds "brand" includes that this is "author fan fiction" which is akin to saying that the a kindle author has opened their world to stories from other authors. This is much in the way many authors open their worlds to other authors to write for a specific anthology. As such, I don't really find it to be fan fiction.

I find myself furious that Amazon considers me not to be available as a reader for this line of their books. It has resulted in me seeking alternatives to Amazon where possible (and it frequently is!). I also have told the occasional author why I no longer purchase their books (when no alternative to Amazon exists)... If I'm not able to read their Kindle World offerings, I'm not able to read their other works... after all, I could get two thirds of the way into a series and find it is now only available in the US.

[Timboli]

@LadyKate - Thanks for that. A burden shared is a pain lessened in my book (sic).

I published this same topic in a few other places, and one person responded with the following.

tl;dr - did you specify where you feel the pain

To which I replied.

Yep, in the wallet .... which they will now certainly see less of.

They hurt my feelings too ... but that's another story .... that I am using Community Therapy to deal with.

And another responder said.

What do you expect to happen?

I replied with the following, which I feel is a good summary.

Now .... nothing much. But this topic is one of the promises I made to them, once I had determined they were being unfair, unreasonable, immoral & unethical .... and most of all, STUPID!.

What should have happened?

They should have said - well we let you buy three quarters of a short story/novella, so I guess we better let you buy the final ending. It would only be fair and just ... and all things considered we have no reasonable grounds for withholding that segment from you.

Especially as the author agrees I should be able to purchase it.

To date, they have released at least or about 127 of these short stories or segments in the Silo Saga, by various authors, that are part of the Kindle Worlds collective. I've bought most of this sort of Fan Fiction, that is based in Hugh Howey's Wool Trilogy universe ... just shy of 100 of them ... so far. All of them from what I have seen at this point, still present a purchase button to me, including more recent releases, after that 4th part/segment was released.

Amazon represent the issue to me as being geo-location based and down to the Publisher, which after checking with the author, is solely Amazon, so they are certainly in a position to do something about this situation, that won't impact on the rights of others.

If you ask me, a mistake has occurred and they need to fix it. Logic says it was their mistake, as I am just a customer, who has done nothing wrong, just bought what they presented to me, entering into a good faith agreement with them by doing so.

It is either a big mistake, because they promoted and let me buy all those Kindle World Silo Saga stories, when perhaps they shouldn't have, or they (small) mistakenly marked this Part 4 ebook as unavailable to me. In either scenario, they need to do the right thing and make good.

If they don't, then their reputation is seriously compromised and they should not be trusted by myself or others. As simple as that really. Sure you can talk about Terms & Conditions (Store Policies), but obligations should and do extend beyond those. There are codes of behavior & conduct to be considered and taken into account ... something vigorously policed in my country, at least.

In my version of the world, these sorts of things, obnoxious or blind or ignorant behavior, should be talked about far and wide. I am an advocate for change after all, and big on Justice trumping all ... justice not being the same as revenge. Forewarning others as I wish I had been forewarned is certainly an element too ... prevention being better than cure.

EDIT
I don't buy into this geo-location stuff anyway, especially when instigated by a publisher for totally unnecessary reasons. In that regard, Amazon should be setting a good example to other Publishers, not being bad like many of them.

If this was a physical book, then even if a publisher never released it in my country, I could still buy it from an overseas store.

Why should ebooks be any different?
They shouldn't be less flexible, that's for sure .... a true oxymoron when you think about it. Ebooks are supposed to be better.

There is no beating Control Freaks though.

[Pajamaman]

Originally Posted by Cinisajoy

Or perhaps, Amazon will refund all the Kindle World books you bought and take them all back.
Since according to Amazon, you were not supposed to get them anyway.

Why do you want to wait? Amazon has nothing to apologize for.

Clearly Amazon DOES have something to apologize for. They allowed the OP to purchase the first three parts, and won't allow him to purchase the fourth.

Now I get that perhaps it was a glitch that they allowed the OP to purchase the first three segments, but that wasn't the purchaser's fault--it was Amazon, and the glitch STILL EXISTS. They haven't fixed it, which will lead to more people being dissapointed. Somebody(s) deserve an apology and a refund.

[DiapDealer]

Why would anyone deserve a refund for books they bought, received, read, and enjoyed enough to want to buy more?

[John F]

Isn't this similar to the 1984 incident? If Amazon isn't supposed to be selling them, they should pull them and give refunds.

[DiapDealer]

Originally Posted by John F

Isn't this similar to the 1984 incident? If Amazon isn't supposed to be selling them, they should pull them and give refunds.

Except that they promised they would never do that again, after the stink it caused.

[HarryT]

Originally Posted by John F

Isn't this similar to the 1984 incident? If Amazon isn't supposed to be selling them, they should pull them and give refunds.

Nothing remotely like it, that I can see. That was a case of copyright infringement on the part of the publisher. This is simply Amazon geo-restricting some of their services, which is a normal part of their business.

[issybird]

Originally Posted by Timboli

There is no beating Control Freaks though

There's an apparent irony here.

One wonders how much time you've squandered on your moral crusade. This is the cause that merits such an effort? It seems you could have read War and Peace in the time spent trying to read the fourth part of a fan-fiction novella. Or done your spring cleaning. Or volunteered at a food pantry. You catch my drift.

For my part, there's no overstating how entirely out of proportion to the perceived "injustice" (that isn't, objectively speaking, no matter what you've "determined") I find this to be. If this is how you get your jollies, that's fine. I spend a fair amount of time here myself. But I don't consider it a higher calling.

[John F]

Originally Posted by HarryT

Nothing remotely like it, that I can see. That was a case of copyright infringement on the part of the publisher. This is simply Amazon geo-restricting some of their services, which is a normal part of their business.

Amazon sold something they weren't supposed to, just like 1984. Almost the exact same thing.

[darryl]

Originally Posted by John F

Amazon sold something they weren't supposed to, just like 1984. Almost the exact same thing.

Much different, John, for so many reasons. As I understand the 1984 scandal ebooks which had been sold by Amazon were actually removed from people's devices without their consent. I abhor geo-restrictions and don't think Amazon is doing themselves any favours restricting Kindle Worlds to the US, particularly not when such restrictions appear to be implemented so inconsistently. I would like to see Amazon make special arrangements to provide the OP with the book. But Amazon is not committing a major crime here. It is nowhere near as offensive as what happened with 1984.

[John F]

Originally Posted by DiapDealer

Except that they promised they would never do that again, after the stink it caused.

Reading what Amazon said, I interpret it as they will not delete content from devices. I would intrepret it that they could delete it from the servers. If they aren't supposed to be distributing it, wouldn't they have to?