What sort of ebook reader do we really want?

[Sirtel]

Originally Posted by Timboli

Did you or anyone, when lost in a good book, ever refer to a dictionary before the days of ebooks?

I used to do it all the time, for many years, when I first started to read fiction in English. An e-reader would have been a godsend then. Now I do it quite rarely, but I still do it whenever needed and it doesn't bother me in the least. Just guessing bothers me more, actually.

[barryem]

I always had a nearby paperback dictionary when I read at home and I always stopped to look up words that were either new to me or used in ways I was unfamiliar with. I've always enjoyed learning. Probably as much as I enjoy reading.

Now with the Kindle I do the same thing more often, a lot more often, and I take it a step further and look up concepts that are either new or that I'd like to know more about on Wikipedia.

Another big advantage of the Kindle (and other readers) is the translation feature. I never used to look up foreign phrases when I encountered them and now I usually do. It helps me with the book and I sometimes learn a new word or phrase in some language. And that sometimes teaches me a bit about English as well.

Decades ago I read the middle English version of "The Canterbury Tales" in a volume with a very thick glossary in the back and I spent a lot of time looking up words I read and I probably learned more about modern english from that than from any other single experience I've ever had. I've never had a course in linguistics but I've done a bit of reading about it as well as about the history of English and that's where my interest in this began. It's been one of my most enjoyable hobbies.

Barry

[Mathiew.pellerin]

I agree with most of what is said here. But one very important thing for me is mobility. I want my ereader to be more portable, to put literally in the pocket, so I can bring it anywhere without having to carry it in a bag or something.

[Timboli]

@Sirtel & @barryem - each to their own. I love words and language too ... but keep that as a separate interest to reading for pleasure ... where for me, it is about getting lost in another world ... suspending disbelief at times even ... especially if SciFi or Fantasy. I do not like being in clinical mode when reading for pleasure.

I've done a lot of reading in the past, with books that use lots of Thee's and Thou's etc, and while initially it took some time to adjust to the archaic language, I slip into it easier now. I guess if you feel the need to look up a word or some unknown thing, then that is indeed your prerogative, especially if feeling driven to do so, but I rarely have ... just tended instead, to bluster my way through, with the sure knowledge the definition or understanding will come clear eventually.

If you ever want a challenge of reading the archaic form of English, then if you haven't read it already, I suggest the brilliant original version of William Hope Hodgson's The Night Land. That's a doozy.

Originally Posted by Mathiew.pellerin

I agree with most of what is said here. But one very important thing for me is mobility. I want my ereader to be more portable, to put literally in the pocket, so I can bring it anywhere without having to carry it in a bag or something.

I seriously considered buying a 6" Kobo once, for that very reason. But in the end, could not justify it based on the projected usage ... and the fact my Samsung phone could do as much with the Kindle app or other app.

And now they have a bigger Samsung phone, which is ample for the amount of time I might read that way. Ultimately I would prefer to read larger E-Ink anyway, if it is reading for sustained periods. 30 minutes on public transport or in a waiting room somewhere, and my phone is plenty good enough.

On a longer journey (i.e. Plane) I would be in a position to have my Kindle and/or Tablet anyway.

[lindaP]

quick question to kindle (or the likes) users. Do you bring your kindle along on the subway/bus? or do you only use it at home.
How about on vacation.

[Timboli]

Originally Posted by HarryT

No, I didn't used to use a dictionary with paper books, so it's an ability I've gained with ebooks. Easy access to a dictionary is one of the many benefits of ebooks.

While I can agree with that, it depends on the book for me.

Originally Posted by radius

Ah, I would have called that a case instead of a cover. I believe most of Mobileread would as well.

Well that's personal I guess. I find the terms can be interchangeable.

I read one handed on the bus and every extra ounce is a nuisance. So is any extra mechanical complexity. There is no way I would read a hardcover novel in those conditions either.

For me, there is an amount before it becomes a nuisance.
I have very deliberately not read a hardcover on the bus or train, for both size and weight. Not sure where I suggested extra mechanical complexity, as I certainly don't envisage any.

In fact, I read outside of the house at least twice as much as I do at home, always without protection. I have never damaged a screen.

To be honest, I rarely read outside the house these days and when I do, it is generally my phone I use ... unless on a rarer long journey, which would naturally include baggage etc ... and thus my Tablet & Kindle as well.

What is b-grade about the materials used for electronic devices? They are typically made from glass and aluminium with some textured plastics. That is no worse than the vinyl, or cloth of many ereader cases. Even hardcover books are usually just cardboard and cloth. I don't know about your reading budget, but I don't have a library full of leather bound books with embossed, gold leaf covers

I was talking relative - Book vs Device. Very different entities, but you have the latter attempting to be a replacement for the former. I don't have such a library either, but budget is only part of it.

All in all it is about preference, and if you have a different preference to mine, fair enough. However, I am am talking about reasons why many have not bought into ereaders + ebooks as a replacement for their beloved books.

I find this very condescending. It is fully possibly to love reading and books without loving the physical artifact of a paper book; those readers can be just as much book lovers as someone who caresses and smells each book lovingly before opening it with reverence. And you can also love both. Do all books, like old pulps or hack romance novels for example, even "deserve" the luxury book binding treatment?

Not condescending at all. I quite understand why many care for nothing beyond the story. Many out there however, care for the whole package.

EDIT - I am not trying to substitute my preference in place of yours or others, or even saying mine is better. If you are happy with current status quo, then lucky you ... we should be so lucky. Some of us have a different preference, that we also, are entitled to. In a very real way, to say the current status quo SHOULD be acceptable for all, is in itself taking a condescending line.

Many books don't deserve to be written let alone published ... especially in hardcover. On that we can agree I suspect.

It's fine for you to feel that the essence, or Platonic ideal of a book includes certain feel in the hand and certain smells, and even certain memory evocations, but that would not increase ebook and ereader adoption in my opinion. Cost is the overwhelming driver. Adding the features you want is technically feasible, but would not work in the mass market because it adds cost. If customers were really all that bothered about the physical feel of books, then hardcovers would dominate book sales and they don't.

Undeniably, a great number of people, especially the younger readers, would not be bothered about device or book ... to them cost and easy use would be all ... for the majority of them. Even just buying a device is a cost impediment many struggle to deal with ... especially while many ebooks aren't as cheap as they should be.

I am primarily talking about others, many who like me, haven't been buying as many hardcovers as they would have liked ... because they too have often been too pricey. The desire was there though. Most of these others are older people and a great number of them collectors ... like myself.

We are talking about a different scenario now. Times have changed and being a collector is not the pressing thing it used to be, for things are easy to obtain ... from a kind of corporate collector, if you like.

Even though ebooks are often not as cheap as they should be, they are still a factor in the different condition now. In the first instance, when you buy your first ebook, you generally need to also buy an ereader of some kind. It is an investment that many, especially elderly readers, struggle to get their head around ... though for me, the benefit is very logical.

Part of it I am sure, is because they are not sure they are going to enjoy the experience, and so paying out what seems a large sum of money (compared to the cost of a single book), seems a big risk.

One way around that problem, would be to have Libraries for instance, lend ereaders, so that people could try for free. Another is to drive the cost right down. Another is to make the device worthy on its own ... make it as attractive as possible ... something one would be proud etc to own.

There was a time, and still is for many, where the cover of a book is an important factor when making a purchase. This might be because you've never read that author before, or because you want to have a matching series, or just because the cover really appeals to you, etc. The blurb only tells you so much, and while I'm not a big fan of judging a book by its cover, it is a starting point sometimes and can sometimes tell you a bit more than the blurb alone.

So in this day and age, where perhaps the cover image is no longer quite the factor it used to be, an ebook file is on its own, pretty dull & boring ... lifeless even. So for many, the attention can then turn to the state of the reader, and how attractive that is or could be.

Yes, I am reading a story and enjoying it. I am also enjoying the cover every time I pick the physical book up. Often I have held the book in my hands and spent some time scrutinizing the cover ... the glorious artwork. That is something, especially without color, that is either missing or not as it was. So all in all, a previous joy is now missing or considerably lessened (perhaps to the point of not bothering) with ebooks.

At the very least, my voice is a voice for those graphic design artists, most of whom struggle to get their work seen, let alone respected and appreciated. There are only so many walls in a house suitable for pictures and spots on a shelf. Sure you can deliberately force yourself to browse a collection of artwork you have collected. But where did you even start to build that collection. Incidental viewing is the best access to that world.

Maybe there is a market for high end ereaders with the features you'd like, but so far we have seen that price is more important by far for the average reader.

If price were all, then everyone would have swapped to ebooks ages ago. A huge number haven't, so to my mind, it puts what you said, to the lie.

Here I think you are looking at the physical ereader as being equivalent somehow to physical books. That's not the way I see it at all. My ereaders are more like magical portals that allow me to scry into my *REAL* library which exists nowhere and everywhere at once. And a ruined reading device does nothing to harm any book in my library.

Each to their own, and I do buy into some of that.
However, like many, I want the best of both worlds.

You and I and most others here who own an ereader, are in relative terms overall, early adopters. There are factors that made us so, that don't apply to many others out there. That should never be forgotten.

Sometimes, one's joy, gives blinkers to the likes and dislikes of others.

[Timboli]

Originally Posted by lindaP

quick question to kindle (or the likes) users. Do you bring your kindle along on the subway/bus? or do you only use it at home.
How about on vacation.

My preference is not to take mine on public transport, where there is hustle and bustle, noise, jostling, distractions, bad behavior, etc. So I use an ereader app on my phone instead.

On vacation, where the transport is more calm, I don't have a problem taking my Kindle.

[cromag]

Originally Posted by lindaP

quick question to kindle (or the likes) users. Do you bring your kindle along on the subway/bus? or do you only use it at home.
How about on vacation.

I take an ereader with me most places I go -- which includes trains (and subways), planes, and vacations. I have a couple inexpensive readers that I take if I have cause to worry, but so far none have strayed or come to harm.

Honestly, long trips and stays in waiting rooms would be a lot less tolerable if I didn't have good reading material available.

[Timboli]

In addition to my earlier word wall (sorry about that), one mustn't ignore the author/publisher factor. Many plainly and simply, don't like ebooks. They feel books are cheapened by being an easily disposable product like a file, etc, etc.

So it is not just reluctant book readers at the heart of it all, but the institution ... especially the older members, amongst whom, ebook is a dirty word.

These institutions have always been out for themselves, whilst always maintaining what they see as a quality product they can gain the most profit out of. Some have enjoyed a kind of monopoly and a certain snobbishness. Then many just love the physical product itself, and see themselves as the last bastions of maintaining a quality item and product institution. For them, it has been a craft, after all.

In some ways, you can liken it to the CD vs Vinyl situation. Where great full size album sleeves were one of the losses from the CD revolution. We were left with a much smaller, less detailed image ... and where its impact was often far less.

At least with CD, the cover image is always there to see. Especially if like me, you embed the cover as artwork in an MP3 or other file, and play on big screen via a media player.

Ebook covers are not so lucky. Probably the only time you see it properly, is before purchase while browsing (if not just a thumbnail). You may also see it fairly decently in your library on a tablet, with a large view setting while browsing. Most just probably see a black & white shades of grey image, and not often or properly ... even if they can be bothered to actually look at them with more than a glance.

[HarryT]

Originally Posted by Timboli

In addition to my earlier word wall (sorry about that), one mustn't ignore the author/publisher factor. Many plainly and simply, don't like ebooks. They feel books are cheapened by being an easily disposable product like a file, etc, etc.

So it is not just reluctant book readers at the heart of it all, but the institution ... especially the older members, amongst whom, ebook is a dirty word.

There are very, very few authors and (especially) publishers who don't produce ebooks these days. The attitude you describe may have been common 10 years ago; I really don't think it is today. Publishers generally care about one thing and one thing only: making a profit. It would be a very foolish publisher who missed out on the profit potential in ebooks today.

Can you give us an example of a mainstream publisher who doesn't produce ebooks?

[ApK]

Originally Posted by HarryT

There are very, very few authors and (especially) publishers who don't produce ebooks these days. The attitude you describe may have been common 10 years ago; I really don't think it is today. Publishers generally care about one thing and one thing only: making a profit. It would be a very foolish publisher who missed out on the profit potential in ebooks today.

Can you give us an example of a mainstream publisher who doesn't produce ebooks?

Some business execs are foolish. Sometimes they are wrong about what is the best path to profit.
I don't know if there are any who DON'T produce ebooks, but I would not be surprised if there were some who's leaders thought that hamstringing their ebook business in someway to try to bolster their hard back business was the Right Thing to Do.

[barryem]

Originally Posted by Timboli

@Sirtel & @barryem - each to their own.

Of course. I was describing what I enjoy, not what you should do. What you should do is for you to decide.

I love words and language too ... but keep that as a separate interest to reading for pleasure ... where for me, it is about getting lost in another world ... suspending disbelief at times even ... especially if SciFi or Fantasy. I do not like being in clinical mode when reading for pleasure.

I don't feel that looking up words is clinical. To me it's a natural part of reading. I guess I read less to get lost in a world than you do although that does happen. For the most part I read because I enjoy stories. It's just that short interruptions for a good reason don't bother me. I go right back into the story.

If you ever want a challenge of reading the archaic form of English, then if you haven't read it already, I suggest the brilliant original version of William Hope Hodgson's The Night Land. That's a doozy.

I used to enjoy reading challenges but no more. Now I read for the fun of it. I like a book to have a little meat but not always. As I get older and my mind reacts more poorly to challenges I just want the fun. I guess for me looking up words is part of the fun.

I seriously considered buying a 6" Kobo once, for that very reason. But in the end, could not justify it based on the projected usage ... and the fact my Samsung phone could do as much with the Kindle app or other app.

And now they have a bigger Samsung phone, which is ample for the amount of time I might read that way. Ultimately I would prefer to read larger E-Ink anyway, if it is reading for sustained periods. 30 minutes on public transport or in a waiting room somewhere, and my phone is plenty good enough.

On a longer journey (i.e. Plane) I would be in a position to have my Kindle and/or Tablet anyway.

I prefer reading on a phone but unfortunately my eyes limit the length of my reading sessions on LCD. If I keep it under 15 or 20 minutes I'm fine. Much more than that and I'm done reading for a few hours and sometimes longer.

But I always have my current book on my phone and I find lots of short breaks for reading. Recently that Russian phone with the back with e-ink went on sale for $150 and I was very tempted but I had read reviews some time back that said it didn't work well with most reading apps other than the built-in one, which wasn't that good. I didn't want to risk that much money on something I didn't feel fairly confident in. But if it did work that would have been really nice so it was very tempting.

I prefer a 5" screen with Moon+ so I can manually scroll. I don't know a nicer way to read than that. But I end up doing most of my reading on my Voyage.

Barry

[barryem]

Originally Posted by Timboli

Many plainly and simply, don't like ebooks. They feel books are cheapened by being an easily disposable product like a file, etc, etc.

Back when all books were made of paper the term "book lover" referred to people who love books and to people who love reading. I think these days we need a new term to describe people who love reading because they don't all LOVE books.

I've always thought of myself as a book lover and yet all my life I've bought books, read them and passed them on in some way. I rarely kept books I'd read unless it was to find someone to share it with. And then they were gone.

I've never been a note-taker so I never wrote in books are marked them but I never minded folding the corner down to mark a page. And I nearly always read paperbacks and had my current book in my back pocket and i was pretty hard on those books. Fussy people didn't want them when I finished.

So I think I'm probably not a book lover but a lover of reading; a lover of stories.

Barry

[Neru]

Good evening,
Are there any rumors about new e-reader devices for 2017 or late 2016 like with i.mx 7 processor or something new?
If there's none then how about make a list of what kind of reader we want and spreading it to the world so some small kickstarters would start making better e-readers? I think there already are enough people who would give their money for a better e-reader (there are some really good ones but they still lack of something just as simple as better processor or better firmware/ or another os) , maybe it's just that people who are making e-ink devices and never releasing them because they are thinking that they wont gain anything from selling e-readers, I mean just look how many concepts and working e-ink stuff there are and only small amount of 'em is released!

[ZodWallop]

A pretty close to ideal e-reader for me would be the Nook Glowlight Plus running Kobo software. Six inch screen, nice lighting, high resolution screen and waterproof. I'd like buttons, but still...