What sort of ebook reader do we really want?

[barryem]

Then thanks. I'm not sure I deserve a lot of praise. I'm kind of a gadget freak and I save up for things and buy them. Then when I get newer ones I loan or give or sell my old ones to my neighbors. My neighbors live in the same retirement home I'm living in and that's just the kind of people we have living here. We share stuff. I'm the one who shares tech. Others share home cooked meals for those of us who don't cook or trips to the store for those of us who don't have cars. Trust me, I come out way ahead.

Lately 3 people in these forums have seen my comments about that and offered ereaders to pass out around here. I've already received one Aura HD and I have a very happy neighbor as a result. There are a couple more pending with one neighbor waiting for one of them and I'm sure I'll find someone for the other one when it gets here.

Barry

[Cinisajoy]

Originally Posted by barryem

Then thanks. I'm not sure I deserve a lot of praise. I'm kind of a gadget freak and I save up for things and buy them. Then when I get newer ones I loan or give or sell my old ones to my neighbors. My neighbors live in the same retirement home I'm living in and that's just the kind of people we have living here. We share stuff. I'm the one who shares tech. Others share home cooked meals for those of us who don't cook or trips to the store for those of us who don't have cars. Trust me, I come out way ahead.

Lately 3 people in these forums have seen my comments about that and offered ereaders to pass out around here. I've already received one Aura HD and I have a very happy neighbor as a result. There are a couple more pending with one neighbor waiting for one of them and I'm sure I'll find someone for the other one when it gets here.

Barry

You are helping to keep a generation reading.

[barryem]

People who are going to read are going to read. I do make it a little easier for them.

Barry

[Timboli]

Originally Posted by barryem

Then thanks. I'm not sure I deserve a lot of praise. I'm kind of a gadget freak and I save up for things and buy them. Then when I get newer ones I loan or give or sell my old ones to my neighbors. My neighbors live in the same retirement home I'm living in and that's just the kind of people we have living here. We share stuff. I'm the one who shares tech. Others share home cooked meals for those of us who don't cook or trips to the store for those of us who don't have cars. Trust me, I come out way ahead.
Barry

Sounds like a nice place to retire to and you sound like a good man.

P.S. Could be something to do with your name, which is not unlike my middle name.

Keep on reading.

[ZodWallop]

Originally Posted by Timboli

Ereaders and ebooks have well and truly proved their value, feasibility and popularity among a good number of people, now manufacturers need to start making them beautiful, just like many physical books are with their brilliant covers. To do that properly, the covers need to be transparent, and look more like a book than an ereader or tablet. In fact, I really think the cover should house the device, to the point of only showing the screen itself, unless you open the medium it is embedded in, right up.

So in other words, the ereader or tablet is fully embedded in some sort of book looking cover, where only the screen shows, when the front book like flap is opened. So in essence it looks non plastic-like and non techno.

Warm and friendly for the masses, I'd call it.

Man, I was glad when Apple finally dropped all that skeuomorphism from iOS. I don't think bringing it to an e-reader would do much for anybody.

You mentioned the iPod as a success. It wasn't a success because it tried to mimic the appearance of a Walkman. It succeeded because it did what it was designed to do and it did it better than what had come before.

Arguments could be made that both Kobo and Amazon are trying to do for e-readers what Apple did for MP3 players. They may not be your cuppa, but the Nook ST, the original Aura and the Oasis all tried to be different than what was currently on the market.

One of the major hurdles e-books have are periodic articles like this one, where people hold forth on why e-books aren't as good as paper while admitting they've never tried an e-reader. I was that guy up to the point I bought my first Nook: http://thefederalist.com/2016/09/27/...ce-real-books/

[mbovenka]

Originally Posted by ZodWallop

One of the major hurdles e-books have are periodic articles like this one, where people hold forth on why e-books aren't as good as paper while admitting they've never tried an e-reader. I was that guy up to the point I bought my first Nook: http://thefederalist.com/2016/09/27/...ce-real-books/

Sigh. Indeed, e-readers aren't paper books. They're better than books. I realized I would never go back to paper the first time I tried to tap a word to find its' definition. In a paper book. And, for a second, wondered why it didn't work. Or wished I could enlarge the font a bit for my tired eyes.

No, neo-luddites like the author of that article can have their paper, and get out of the way so that we can get get on with the future.

[Timboli]

Originally Posted by ZodWallop

.....You mentioned the iPod as a success. It wasn't a success because it tried to mimic the appearance of a Walkman. It succeeded because it did what it was designed to do and it did it better than what had come before.

Nothing to do with the Walkman in my view. Never found them particularly good. If you read all my posts, I talk about more than purely imitating a book. In fact I am more about emulating what is good about a good physical book. And books have been around for a long long time, and are very well-loved by a huge number of people. They have in fact stood the test of time.

Arguments could be made that both Kobo and Amazon are trying to do for e-readers what Apple did for MP3 players. They may not be your cuppa, but the Nook ST, the original Aura and the Oasis all tried to be different than what was currently on the market.

Maybe. But you could also posit they are somewhat lame, like all the MP3 Players that preceded the iPod, and still continued for some time afterward, despite the example. In my view it is about understanding ... which is why so many didn't get it and failed to emulate the success of Apple's iPod.

One of the major hurdles e-books have are periodic articles like this one, where people hold forth on why e-books aren't as good as paper while admitting they've never tried an e-reader. I was that guy up to the point I bought my first Nook: http://thefederalist.com/2016/09/27/...ce-real-books/

Talking about ebooks and ereaders are two different things.

I was a convert long before a decent enough ereader became available. So it has never been an issue for me whether ebooks are good enough, just when the device you read them on comes of age. In my view, they haven't matured enough yet, and are still mostly in the realm of a toy almost. And let's be honest, many are happy with that. Many like their tech toys, gizmo's, plastic doodah's, etc.

As I said, iPad's and Tablets will continue to grab ever bigger slices of the potential ereader market, for a ton of obvious reasons, many already mentioned.

That mean's the E-Ink reader will continue to become more of a niche only product. Unless it offers something, beside a better read for your eyes, that the tablet form doesn't.

Hell, you need only look at how many are happy to pay for hardcover books, when paperbacks are much cheaper. People want a better reading experience if they can get it. And many hardcovers are heavy buggers.

Many want to sit back and cuddle almost with a book, by the fire in a rocking chair, so to speak. Many love the feel and smell, not just the look. It is about an experience. A lot more to divulge yourself of, when sitting down with a tech device, that looks all too techy. Some of us want an easier journey to other worlds. A good traditional book is easier to do that with.

In time, with the right approach, an ereader within the proper housing, can be better than a physical book. That is my belief. An ereader already has a lot going for it. Cripes, I even prefer to read an ebook these days. Font and lighting benefits just two major ones among many ... especially with an easy on the eyes E-Ink reader.

Many are very sad to see the traditional humble book die a slow death ... me too. We need more than just a bunch of text, to play tribute to it. I want to feel, that I am not just reading yet another screen ... every moment of the day.

Let's put some friendly magic into our lives in this increasingly tech based world.

We owe it to ourselves. Look at how much time we are going to be spending with these devices, no doubt ever increasing. Let's do it in style and comfort .... pleasure even.

[Timboli]

Originally Posted by mbovenka

Sigh. Indeed, e-readers aren't paper books. They're better than books.

Only in some areas, by no means all. You can toss a book down onto a table, leave it on the floor even. You don't have to concern yourself with battery power or a Wifi connection etc. Much easier and quicker to find (thumb to) a section you remember ... in some scenarios anyway. I've got books that are 80 or more years old, and still look great and require nothing more than my mind, eyes and time to read. Spill a drink on it and you just get a stain and maybe a few sticky pages. They don't die easy, and will live far longer than any ereader probably will. And so on........

And something else we should consider. Bookcases. What will happen to them?
Me I love looking at the spines of books in a bookcase. Some show age, others look brand new, and then all those in-between. Some are thick, some thin. Tall, short, paperback, hardcover, sleeves or not. When I look at a bookcase, I get a warm fuzzy feeling. That's probably why I have several.

Every book is an individual object and imparts some kind of value. You don't really get that sense with an ereader ... partly because the ereader is just a piece of plastic and glass, and ebooks are just files.

You have more of a sense of ownership too, with a physical book. While it is easy enough to remove DRM, you are always left feeling like you still aren't a full owner with a file. You can't even sell it on.

I realized I would never go back to paper the first time I tried to tap a word to find its' definition. In a paper book. And, for a second, wondered why it didn't work. Or wished I could enlarge the font a bit for my tired eyes.

For sure, ebooks and ereaders have their great benefits. I enjoy them very much too.

I've always wondered though about those who stop to check on the definition of a word. Me, I prefer to keep the flow going and just try to get meaning from the context it is used in, when it comes to a word I am unsure of ... don't like to be taken away from the story, even for a moment. That's with a novel anyway ... I'd rather pretend I understood. Non-fiction is a different kettle of fish, where I would maybe check on a word.

No, neo-luddites like the author of that article can have their paper, and get out of the way so that we can get get on with the future.

Didn't read the article, but I can imagine.

There is not just one version of the future out there, and I am one of those who also believes in looking back while looking forward. Not all that is new is a worthy replacement or complete successor.

The future is more promising if it contains elements of the past, and learning - knowledge and wisdom, are certainly the way to grow properly.

Don't throw the baby out with the bath water.
Or eschew beauty for practicality, as some see it.

Many a book will tell you that.

[ZodWallop]

Originally Posted by Timboli

...Every book is an individual object and imparts some kind of value... Don't throw the baby out with the bath water.
Or eschew beauty for practicality, as some see it.

Many a book will tell you that.

Absolutely. I'm a champion of eBooks and e-readers, but I'm not pushing to get rid of paper books any time soon. I say whatever the market will bear.

I just don't think disguising an e-reader as a hard cover book will do anything except make them look precious and goofy. But that's just my opinion and you know what thy say about opinions.

I will say since switching over to e-books, I haven't bought any more paper books. But I haven't had the heart to get rid of any of the 2,800 books in my collection, even those I now have e-copies of.

But I'm also very interested in downsizing and it isn't escaping my notice that a digital version of the contents of my entire paper library (which includes books scattered all over the house) could easily fit within the free storage space of something like Google Drive.

"A house without books is like a room without windows." Just maybe I could use less windows

[ApK]

Originally Posted by ZodWallop

"A house without books is like a room without windows." Just maybe I could use less windows

Yeah, 'cuz, by extension, people in houses full of books shouldn't throw stones.
And by further extension, if he who is without sin should cast the first stone, people with lots of books shouldn't be without sin.

Which explains why so many book clubs meet in Las Vegas.

[ZodWallop]

Your logic is impeccable.

[HarryT]

Originally Posted by Timboli

I've always wondered though about those who stop to check on the definition of a word. Me, I prefer to keep the flow going and just try to get meaning from the context it is used in, when it comes to a word I am unsure of ... don't like to be taken away from the story, even for a moment. That's with a novel anyway ... I'd rather pretend I understood.

That's your choice, of course, but can you really not understand that someone might want to learn what an unfamiliar word means, rather than guessing? There are some authors who constantly challenge my vocabulary, and learning new words is always good. I love the fact that I can just tap and hold a word on my Kindle's screen to see its definition.

[Timboli]

Originally Posted by HarryT

That's your choice, of course, but can you really not understand that someone might want to learn what an unfamiliar word means, rather than guessing? There are some authors who constantly challenge my vocabulary, and learning new words is always good. I love the fact that I can just tap and hold a word on my Kindle's screen to see its definition.

It's not so much me saying, don't do it or it isn't worthwhile to check, just that in the moment, I don't want to be taken away from being lost in the story, and returned to the world of mundane considerations.

So in a purely theoretical sense I understand, but in a practical sense, for me at least, it is not something that makes sense to do at the time ... unless of course, the book is boring or it isn't the gripping type.

Did you or anyone, when lost in a good book, ever refer to a dictionary before the days of ebooks? If not, how did you cope?

I guess some might have read with a dictionary at their side. I never did.

If I was really stuck on a word, especially when young and my language skills not as well developed, I might have chased up a word in a dictionary at the end of a chapter or when I finished my reading session ... provided I remembered of course. Generally though, I am pretty good at determining the meaning of a word, by the context it is in (and or by taking the word apart) ... or by further enlightenment later in a story. Sometimes a little mystery until then, adds to the experience.

I guess you can liken it to watching a movie, and not wanting to be interrupted for a toilet break or a phone call or a discussion. You are lost in the moment, and don't want any distractions taking you out of the zone, until it's over.

I also liken it to being lost in the joy of your favorite song, only to be brought back to reality by an unpleasant sound or interruption, which takes you out of the moment, and brings the world around you crashing back in. Joy, enrapture, etc are to be held onto as long as possible for maximum benefit in my view.

I realize that some other people aren't like that, but I can't relate to being like them myself. Perhaps it is a concentration or brain compartmentalizing thing?

I find it can take real effort to switch between states, and you also run the risk of being distracted enough, to start thinking down other channels ... and before you know it, you have been reading sentences, paragraphs, etc but not taking any of it in (because your thoughts are elsewhere) ... except maybe subconsciously.

In any case, the short answer to your question, is that I understand the sentiment, but don't understand engaging in the reality.

P.S. That is why I hate stories that have been poorly edited. Having to make mental corrections for grammatical errors, keeps interrupting the flow and retards or spoils any magic trying to build or be maintained. I either get my money back for such ebooks or use Sigil etc. If I have to use Sigil, I generally fix the ebook, then put it aside for weeks or months, and then come back to it with less fore-brain memory of it ... that way I am unlikely to remember the finer details ... especially distracting ones. I mention here, a little tool I have developed, that assists me with Sigil.

[radius]

Originally Posted by Timboli

P.S. For the record, no simple flap covers pass muster for me. If it is not full protection both front & rear, plus sides (device inset from edge), then it doesn't even appear on my radar. The cover has to be like thick (let's say 2mm) cardboard, only tougher than cardboard, waterproof (as in splash proof, obviously not immersion), and while heaviness is not a big issue for me, my general rule of thumb, is anything lighter than a standard hardcover novel, can pass muster ... I am always willing to trade off a weight though for improved protection.

Ah, I would have called that a case instead of a cover. I believe most of Mobileread would as well.

I read one handed on the bus and every extra ounce is a nuisance. So is any extra mechanical complexity. There is no way I would read a hardcover novel in those conditions either.

In fact, I read outside of the house at least twice as much as I do at home, always without protection. I have never damaged a screen.

And honestly, I can't abide slippery phones, tablets or ereaders ... not only do they feel b-grade, but you are just asking for trouble. I can savor the feel of my covers and grip them easily and ruggedly, without fear of cracking the screen.

What is b-grade about the materials used for electronic devices? They are typically made from glass and aluminium with some textured plastics. That is no worse than the vinyl, or cloth of many ereader cases. Even hardcover books are usually just cardboard and cloth. I don't know about your reading budget, but I don't have a library full of leather bound books with embossed, gold leaf covers

A book should be an experience in my view. It should open up, and have both a left and right page (right being where the device sits). It should feel nice, smell nice, and definitely look less like some tech toy as possible ... got enough of those. In short, an ebook should be as much like a traditional book as possible.

So as many know, there are people who listen to music and then there are those who love music. It is the same for books. Some dive in deep for the whole multidimensional experience, and some are just happy swimming in the shallows.

I find this very condescending. It is fully possibly to love reading and books without loving the physical artifact of a paper book; those readers can be just as much book lovers as someone who caresses and smells each book lovingly before opening it with reverence. And you can also love both. Do all books, like old pulps or hack romance novels for example, even "deserve" the luxury book binding treatment?

It's fine for you to feel that the essence, or Platonic ideal of a book includes certain feel in the hand and certain smells, and even certain memory evocations, but that would not increase ebook and ereader adoption in my opinion. Cost is the overwhelming driver. Adding the features you want is technically feasible, but would not work in the mass market because it adds cost. If customers were really all that bothered about the physical feel of books, then hardcovers would dominate book sales and they don't.

Maybe there is a market for high end ereaders with the features you'd like, but so far we have seen that price is more important by far for the average reader.

P.S.S. If someone spills a drink on the coffee table (etc) where your book is sitting, and it is a physical book, then at worst, you have wrecked one book. An ereader on the other hand, without a decent cover, is an expensive door stop ... not to mention the issue of where it may be your only one.

Here I think you are looking at the physical ereader as being equivalent somehow to physical books. That's not the way I see it at all. My ereaders are more like magical portals that allow me to scry into my *REAL* library which exists nowhere and everywhere at once. And a ruined reading device does nothing to harm any book in my library.

[HarryT]

Originally Posted by Timboli

It's not so much me saying, don't do it or it isn't worthwhile to check, just that in the moment, I don't want to be taken away from being lost in the story, and returned to the world of mundane considerations.

So in a purely theoretical sense I understand, but in a practical sense, for me at least, it is not something that makes sense to do at the time ... unless of course, the book is boring or it isn't the gripping type.

Did you or anyone, when lost in a good book, ever refer to a dictionary before the days of ebooks? If not, how did you cope?

No, I didn't used to use a dictionary with paper books, so it's an ability I've gained with ebooks. Easy access to a dictionary is one of the many benefits of ebooks.