The size of current-day companies

[Katsunami]

Originally Posted by pdurrant

Me too. I don't have very clear memories of them, but my lingering impressions mean that I have no desire to re-read them.

Wow. It seems I must read those novels, just to see for myself.

Always having a protagonist who does the (expected) right thing, and behaves perfectly (as expected) gets a bit boring sometimes.

Thomas Covenant, an embittered and cynical writer, afflicted with leprosy and shunned by society, is fated to become the heroic savior of The Land, an alternate world. In six novels published between 1977 and 1983, he struggles against the satanic Lord Foul, "The Despiser", who intends to escape the bondage of the physical universe and wreak revenge upon his arch-enemy, "The Creator".

Stephen R. Donaldson's works are infused with psychological undertones involving an exploration of the darker side of the protagonist Thomas Covenant whilst preserving strong humanist ideals.

I think I'm moving this to somewhere near the top of my to-read list, just to see for myself. I have the books, but I just bought them on a discount after seeing so many referrals to them in the forums

[Sirtel]

Those quotes would make me want to read the books too. Unfortunately they make Thomas Covenant seem far more interesting than he really was, in the first book at least (I admit I haven't read the rest of them).

[Phogg]

Originally Posted by PeterT

I managed the first 3 books of Thomas Covenant, struggled with the second 3 and gave up on the final 3.

I just discovered there are actually 10 books!

Thomas Covenant; the books written for that mood when "Less Than Zero" is just too damned cheerful.

[FizzyWater]

Well. Hmm.

I read the first three Thomas Covenant books when I was in college - probably right around the time they came out. Love 'em, even with the very horrible first encounter of Covenant with the Fantasy land.

I could imagine someone being so bitter after everyone in his life abandoned him.

I found the second three harder to read and hated how they ended.

I have the newest four in my TBR pile.

I know I'd have to do a re-read to remember almost all the details, just so the last four made sense. But I've been afraid it would be more like the 2nd trilogy than the first.

Now as I read all these comments, I wonder if my point-of-view would be completely different on Covenant, since I'm no longer that naive and soft-hearted young adult. I'm old and suspicious and getting closer to 60! I might just want to punch him in the mouth.

Disclaimer: I'm actually not a big fan of epic fantasy. I enjoyed Jordan's Wheel of Time books well enough, but got disgusted by book 10 and never finished those either. For nothing-like-real-life stories, I prefer science fiction and romance. (What? You think I believe "romance heroes" are for real?!)

The only fantasy series I'm enjoying these days is Michelle Sagara's Chronicles of Elantra. And I'm sure large chunks of it are going over my head because I'm not steeped in all the fantasy tropes.

[Katsunami]

That does it. I'm going to start the Covenant series after I finish my current book.

[Sirtel]

Originally Posted by Katsunami

That does it. I'm going to start the Covenant series after I finish my current book.

Well, let us know what you think, then.

[Katsunami]

Originally Posted by Sirtel

Well, let us know what you think, then.

I have a feeling I'm going to enjoy this.

Music I like the best often also sounds evil and / or in minor Think "Toccata and Fugue in D Minor" (The first few lines are THE horror movie music), or The Prophecy (Lord of the Rings).

For some reason, I like evil, dissonant, violent and depressed music, games and writing, possibly because in real life, I'm none of those things (most of the time).

[Sirtel]

A couple of fantasies from the 80's and 90's that I also enjoyed are The Last Rune series by Mark Anthony (six books, all of them doorstoppers and the pacing is sloooooow... but I liked them ) and the Vlad Taltos books by Steven Brust (his writing style is totally different from Anthony's, but no less enjoyable).

[pwalker8]

Originally Posted by Sirtel

A couple of fantasies from the 80's and 90's that I also enjoyed are The Last Rune series by Mark Anthony (six books, all of them doorstoppers and the pacing is sloooooow... but I liked them ) and the Vlad Taltos books by Steven Brust (his writing style is totally different from Anthony's, but no less enjoyable).

I liked the early Vlad Taltos books. I kind of lost interest after a point though. I missed the Last Rune series. I'll have to check it out.

[Krazykiwi]

I love the Vlad Taltos books. They're very often quite hilarious, and cover a variety of styles which I find a lot of fun. It also means if you find you're losing interest, the next book might just reawaken it since it's likely to be written in a completely different way. Some are written like old noir detective stories, one begins with a literal laundry list from the protagonist, and proceeds to explain how each item of clothing got on it and needing exactly that repair or bloodstain removed, one plays out over a single meal, and one of the spinoff subseries is basically a Three Musketeers rewrite set in the Taltos world. I think Brust is wholly underrated, he's one of my all time favourite authors.

Not yet mentioned is the Pern Books by Anne McCaffrey. A huge long series, eventually covering thousands of years, if you like them you're in for a lot of fun.

Re Thomas the Covenant, I actually have a problem seeing that recommended to anyone without a caveat what you're in for. He's a bit more than unpleasant, he's broken and rotten and not a good man, at least at the beginning. This is a book that has a protagonist, not a hero.

There is one incident only about 6 or 7 chapters in that pretty much will make or break if you are going to continue reading it, when the protagonist commits a really vile act.

Spoiler:

It's a portal fantasy, where one character crosses from one world into another. The problem is he doesn't believe the new world he's in is real, he thinks he's dreaming. When challenged on this by the teenage girl who has just healed him of all his woes and is pretty much his only friend, he proceeds to rape her - but since it's not real, it doesn't matter anyway.

Fans say: Realising what he's done when he decides the other world is in fact real, breaks his already fragile psyche, makes him hate himself, and pretty much starts a quest for some kind of redemption that threads the entire story. And that the direct ramifications are still making him pay right to the end of the third book of the first chronicle.

Not-Fans say: There is no redemption, and the book is stupid.

YMMV.

[pwalker8]

Originally Posted by Krazykiwi

I love the Vlad Taltos books. They're very often quite hilarious, and cover a variety of styles which I find a lot of fun. It also means if you find you're losing interest, the next book might just reawaken it since it's likely to be written in a completely different way. Some are written like old noir detective stories, one begins with a literal laundry list from the protagonist, and proceeds to explain how each item of clothing got on it and needing exactly that repair or bloodstain removed, one plays out over a single meal, and one of the spinoff subseries is basically a Three Musketeers rewrite set in the Taltos world. I think Brust is wholly underrated, he's one of my all time favourite authors.

Not yet mentioned is the Pern Books by Anne McCaffrey. A huge long series, eventually covering thousands of years, if you like them you're in for a lot of fun.

Re Thomas the Covenant, I actually have a problem seeing that recommended to anyone without a caveat what you're in for. He's a bit more than unpleasant, he's broken and rotten and not a good man, at least at the beginning. This is a book that has a protagonist, not a hero.

There is one incident only about 6 or 7 chapters in that pretty much will make or break if you are going to continue reading it, when the protagonist commits a really vile act.

Spoiler:

It's a portal fantasy, where one character crosses from one world into another. The problem is he doesn't believe the new world he's in is real, he thinks he's dreaming. When challenged on this by the teenage girl who has just healed him of all his woes and is pretty much his only friend, he proceeds to rape her - but since it's not real, it doesn't matter anyway.

Fans say: Realising what he's done when he decides the other world is in fact real, breaks his already fragile psyche, makes him hate himself, and pretty much starts a quest for some kind of redemption that threads the entire story. And that the direct ramifications are still making him pay right to the end of the third book of the first chronicle.

Not-Fans say: There is no redemption, and the book is stupid.

YMMV.

I found Brust's three musketeer's pastiche to be particularly annoying. Different strokes for different folks. To an extent, I got the impression that Brust was getting bored with things and started to experiment with literary devices rather than focus on telling a good story. I actually have the main line stories up through Hawk (# 14).

[Apache]

Originally Posted by Krazykiwi

I love the Vlad Taltos books. They're very often quite hilarious, and cover a variety of styles which I find a lot of fun. It also means if you find you're losing interest, the next book might just reawaken it since it's likely to be written in a completely different way. Some are written like old noir detective stories, one begins with a literal laundry list from the protagonist, and proceeds to explain how each item of clothing got on it and needing exactly that repair or bloodstain removed, one plays out over a single meal, and one of the spinoff subseries is basically a Three Musketeers rewrite set in the Taltos world. I think Brust is wholly underrated, he's one of my all time favourite authors.

I love the series too.

Originally Posted by pwalker8

I found Brust's three musketeer's pastiche to be particularly annoying. Different strokes for different folks. To an extent, I got the impression that Brust was getting bored with things and started to experiment with literary devices rather than focus on telling a good story. I actually have the main line stories up through Hawk (# 14).

It took me a couple of chapters to get the flow, but I actually like that he wrote it in the style he did. I have reread this series at least 4 times.
Apache

[pwalker8]

Originally Posted by Apache

I love the series too.


It took me a couple of chapters to get the flow, but I actually like that he wrote it in the style he did. I have reread this series at least 4 times.
Apache

Like I say, different strokes for different folks. I might revisit some of those once I whittle down my reading list some.