Wizpac txtr reader announced - the Kindle killer?

[kacir]

Originally Posted by treesaver

Txtr prototype video?

There were some guys in a quiet corner at the CCC-Congress last december that had a ebook-prototype, something that looked a lot like that txtr-device. Since wispac/txt is in Berlin, that could have been some developers who were too proud not to show of?
A friend made a video back then, its up here: http://www.vimeo.com/2984025

This is by far THE coolest e-ink device I have seen demonstrated. Ever.
It definitely does have a control pad very similar to the one on the txtr homepage.

Welcome treesaver.
Thank you for a very nice first post on the forum.

[DG25]

Originally Posted by kacir

It definitely does have a control pad very similar to the one on the txtr homepage..

I think it is the txtr device. It even has the accelerometer enabled.

[Phogg]

Originally Posted by DG25

I think it is the txtr device. It even has the accelerometer enabled.

/pushes for hint from noonscoomo

I hope the production model is at least as small as the prototype.

[rhadin]

Originally Posted by treesaver

Txtr prototype video?

There were some guys in a quiet corner at the CCC-Congress last december that had a ebook-prototype, something that looked a lot like that txtr-device. Since wispac/txt is in Berlin, that could have been some developers who were too proud not to show of?
A friend made a video back then, its up here: http://www.vimeo.com/2984025

After watching the video my enthusiasm for the design has waned considerably, although I would still consider the device. My problem is the location of the crossbar. If it were movable, that is slideable up or down the side so that it could be placed in a comfortable position, it would be fine. But when I look at how I hold my Sony and how I hold my pbooks, I realize that changing pages on the TXTR will be awkward -- I often do not hold my Sony in 2 hands and usually change pages using the bottom left buttons and sometimes the right side buttons. The TXTR is going to require, I think, 2 hands, especially as the control is centered.

Certainly the device in the video is visually "cool" but I wonder about the ergonomics for more than a few minutes of reading. Has anyone actually tried to read for a few hours at a stretch using the device to test the ergonomics?

[wallcraft]

Originally Posted by JasonB

Can somebody describe what that means in terms of the difference in readability from only 8 (as with the Sony I have)? I'm assuming that it's the same as in the computer world, and there will simply be better contrast, making it look even that much more realistic?

The iRex products have 16 gray levels. This does make a difference for images, but some of the same effect can be obtained by dithering. I don't know how much it helps font anti-aliasing, but this might be the most significant reason for using 16 levels.

[noonscoomo]

We updated the txtr reader spec. with the dimension now.
It is 146mm x 128mm x 8mm and weights aprox. 260g

[JasonB]

Originally Posted by HarryT

A "progress bar", such as the CyBook has, gives you that same information, and, moreover, remains valid no matter how much you change the font size, etc.

Ah! I've never seen a CyBook, and, thinking back, I may have missed a post here about that feature. That would certainly put a different spin on things. I would certainly appreciate that feedback also - in addition to page numbers. <grin>

Originally Posted by Mr. Goodbar

I understand that font sizes will change the number of pages in a book, but can't we just recalculate the number of pages in respects to the larger font size? This is how the Sony does it and it works very well.

I've only used a Sony reader so, again, it seems I've let my experience with it colour my earlier statements. Yes, with the Sony the total number of pages (and your current page) are recalculated dynamically as the font size is changed. It displays [current] / [total] on the display.

Originally Posted by rhadin

After watching the video my enthusiasm for the design has waned considerably, although I would still consider the device. My problem is the location of the crossbar. If it were movable, that is slideable up or down the side so that it could be placed in a comfortable position, it would be fine. But when I look at how I hold my Sony and how I hold my pbooks, I realize that changing pages on the TXTR will be awkward -- I often do not hold my Sony in 2 hands and usually change pages using the bottom left buttons and sometimes the right side buttons. The TXTR is going to require, I think, 2 hands, especially as the control is centered.

I feel the exactly the same way as you. Having it centered vertically (especially when there is not also an additional set of controls along the bottom for more choice) would make it a bit of a pain for me also, given how I sometimes read. With the Sony, the right-hand controls are a bit farther down than centered, so that, with the bottom-right of the reader sitting at the base of your thumb, you can easily reach them with the tip of your thumb. If the controls were up a bit more, I'd have to keep moving my hand up and down the right-hand side of the reader - which would annoy me.

If the controls could slide up and down (and be locked into place once you've got them where you want them) that would be ideal.

Originally Posted by wallcraft

The iRex products have 16 gray levels. This does make a difference for images, but some of the same effect can be obtained by dithering. I don't know how much it helps font anti-aliasing, but this might be the most significant reason for using 16 levels.

I realized shortly after I posted, asking about the difference between 8 and 16 to contrast, that it may have been a bit of a foolish question. For pure text, you really only need black and white. Having any number of greater gray scales isn't going to improve the contrast between those two extremes. So, for reading in general, it probably isn't going to make a difference. However, for things like different font weights and illustrations, it probably would make a big difference. Although I'm also intrigued by the anti-aliasing question and how having the different levels explicitly available might affect visibility - even if just subtly.

[Alisa]

I'm surprised with all the debate about "page" numbering that no one has yet introduced a firmware or a hack that lets you select from multiple methods. You could have calculated page number or something like Amazon's location numbers (which are way more specific when you're trying to direct someone to an exact spot in a book). You could even have something like the chapter + paragraph number than many of us here would like to see. Personally, while I like the consistency of locations or c+p, what I miss is not being able to easily find out how far I am from the end of a chapter. The Kindle's progress bar tells me how far I have to go in the book which is nice, but when I'm tired and am trying to decide whether to go to sleep or plow through to the end of a chapter, I wish I could quickly find out how long that would take. Little hash marks on the progress bar would help that.

[noonscoomo]

page numbering sounds like an endless discussion. For txtr there are two aspects important. First the user should know where in the document he is and how "big" the document is. Second it should be possible to reference to a specific element of the document. The first part is a visual thing. No problem at all, just decide if you want to see it all the time or not. The second part has nothing to do with the first and is absolutely no problem with digital documents. Just reference to a position in the document, attach an annotation if you like and share that with others. The problem with this is, that it will not reference back to the (original?) paper document. For that you need to know meta information like the paperwork page count and how the content is spread over all the pages. This is a lot of work and cold be done automatically only if you have a digital document which is absolutely identical to the paper document (or maybe just a specific version of it). Question here is, if the worth of solving that specific problem is big enough to do all the work... We at txtr will be fine with the two digital soutions, if you need the analog as well, do it on you own with our sdk. ;-)

[Mr. Goodbar]

Originally Posted by noonscoomo

page numbering sounds like an endless discussion. For txtr there are two aspects important. First the user should know where in the document he is and how "big" the document is. Second it should be possible to reference to a specific element of the document. The first part is a visual thing. No problem at all, just decide if you want to see it all the time or not. The second part has nothing to do with the first and is absolutely no problem with digital documents. Just reference to a position in the document, attach an annotation if you like and share that with others. The problem with this is, that it will not reference back to the (original?) paper document. For that you need to know meta information like the paperwork page count and how the content is spread over all the pages. This is a lot of work and cold be done automatically only if you have a digital document which is absolutely identical to the paper document (or maybe just a specific version of it). Question here is, if the worth of solving that specific problem is big enough to do all the work... We at txtr will be fine with the two digital soutions, if you need the analog as well, do it on you own with our sdk. ;-)

For me, I'm not concerned on whether a page reference on an electronic document is the same as it is on the paper version. If I'm reading on my iLiad or Sony I won't be reading on a paper version. I know others will see this differently, but for me it's just important to know where I am in the document I'm reading. I would suggest looking at how Sony has implemented this.

[astra]

Originally Posted by Mr. Goodbar

For me, I'm not concerned on whether a page reference on an electronic document is the same as it is on the paper version. If I'm reading on my iLiad or Sony I won't be reading on a paper version. I know others will see this differently, but for me it's just important to know where I am in the document I'm reading. I would suggest looking at how Sony has implemented this.

I am signing under every word.

[Mr. Goodbar]

Originally Posted by noonscoomo

We updated the txtr reader spec. with the dimension now.
It is 146mm x 128mm x 8mm and weights aprox. 260g

The size is looking very nice. I think there is also a general consensus arising that you all have done a really good job with the industrial design. The device just looks great. I can't wait to see actual prototype pictures.

One comment would be to not cut short the quality of case material. Cheap plastic that shows a bunch of fingerprints does not convey a high quality message. Design, function and price are always tradeoffs, but if the device conveys quality when someone picks it up it certainly sends a strong message. Again, Sony has done a fantastic job in this area. The soft touch coating on the iLiad also does this, but the general size and creakiness of the unit does just the opposite. I personally find the cybook feels a little on the cheap side, but I know others have a different opinion. I think adding less gloss and soft touch paint to the Cybook would make a big difference.

One other point to raise is to give some thought to how the device is attached to any case or cover. Having covers attached by straps, velcro, corner pockets of leather just looks sloppy. You've obviously put a lot of thought into the design and the way the unit looks, please don't mess it up with sloppy covers. Think of the covers as a way to present the device, not just as a means to protect. Again, Sony has done a brilliant job in this area compared to all the others. You don't want or need to copy them, but some of their decisions are head and shoulders above what their competitors are doing.

At some point all of these devices are going to support similar formats and be available in stores. Think about all of the readers lined up next to each other for comparison shopping and what the design conveys when someone picks it up. Does it feel good in the hand, does it look good, how does it look in the cover?

Enough of my design ramblings for now and once again thanks for taking an active interest in the community. You folks look to be on track for rolling out a really nice device and from the initial specs and design I will be at the head of the line to pick one up.

[HarryT]

Originally Posted by Mr. Goodbar

I personally find the cybook feels a little on the cheap side, but I know others have a different opinion. I think adding less gloss and soft touch paint to the Cybook would make a big difference.

I entirely agree with you. Without the cover, the CyBook feels very "cheap and flimsy". It isn't, but it certainly feels as though it is. With the cover on, it's a different story - thankfully!

One other point to raise is to give some thought to how the device is attached to any case or cover. Having covers attached by straps, velcro, corner pockets of leather just looks sloppy. You've obviously put a lot of thought into the design and the way the unit looks, please don't mess it up with sloppy covers. Think of the covers as a way to present the device, not just as a means to protect. Again, Sony has done a brilliant job in this area compared to all the others. You don't want or need to copy them, but some of their decisions are head and shoulders above what their competitors are doing.

I think personally that the CyBook cover (the original tan one) is excellent. Makes the device look like a high-quality leather-bound book.

[pilotbob]

Originally Posted by HarryT

I think personally that the CyBook cover (the original tan one) is excellent. Makes the device look like a high-quality leather-bound book.

One thing I would suggest it to use a good solid way to fasten the cover to the reader.

I have to say, the Sony 500 had the best method. It provided a solid attachment method without getting in the way of any of the edges of the device. I think they made a mistake with the change they made with the 505. Now the cover sticks out to the left of the device when folded back. Also, the little clips don't hold as well and are not a sturdy at the 500 clasp was.

BOb

[Mr. Goodbar]

Originally Posted by pilotbob

One thing I would suggest it to use a good solid way to fasten the cover to the reader.

I have to say, the Sony 500 had the best method. It provided a solid attachment method without getting in the way of any of the edges of the device. I think they made a mistake with the change they made with the 505. Now the cover sticks out to the left of the device when folded back. Also, the little clips don't hold as well and are not a sturdy at the 500 clasp was.

BOb

I would agree with you Bob. Something similar also has the advantage for Wizpac in regards to their design. It could be flipped around to allow the controls to be on either side while still having the same type of cover.