eBay auction Reserve prices are evil!

[Canuck_in_Japan]

Originally Posted by ApK

You can accomplish THAT by simply not listing the item at all. Keep it in your attic. Or throw it in the trash.

But if your goal is to actually SELL it for the price you want, you're better off just listing it at the price you're willing to let it go for, with no reserve.

There must be a reason for people not doing that, otherwise no one would. Probably they want their listing to show up when you list from cheapest to most expensive.

[ApK]

Originally Posted by Canuck_in_Japan

There must be a reason for people not doing that, otherwise no one would. Probably they want their listing to show up when you list from cheapest to most expensive.

Indeed. I see it as false advertising and a disrespectful waste of bidder's time, but it's there for a reason.
I think the main reason is that it's a concept familiar to off-line live auction goers, so it makes the experience more familiar for them. Flawed, and inappropriate, but familiar. Many people might stop using it once they understand the differences, but I guess from eBay's point of view, it helped attract a new user, so mission accomplished.

Also keep in mind that it only works to feature that false low price and attract that sort of ill-gotten attention if NO ONE BIDS!
That is, the false super-low starting price only gives you extra attention if the price STAYS TOO LOW TO SELL THE ITEM!
Once people bid the item up to near it's reserve price, then it's right there in line with all the other auctions for a similar item that were listed at a realistic price to start with.
The difference being, some people were turned off by the reserve, felt no need to waste time trying to get the deal that attracted them, which the seller had no intention of actually offering, and they go and bid on one of those other auctions instead. That keeps the reserve auction at that enticingly low, misleading price, unsold.
That's likely why, statistically, reserve auctions end with lower prices, and fail more often, than non-reserve auctions.

As I mentioned above, I can see that when the value of an item is highly speculative for both seller and potential buyers, then a reserve might be appropriate. The auction becomes essentially a mini stock exchange for establishing the value of that one item.

But for everything else: Evil.

I've read on some of the forums and FAQs on eBay, they have considered eliminating the feature from time to time.

[DiapDealer]

Originally Posted by ApK

I've read on some of the forums and FAQs on eBay, they have considered eliminating the feature from time to time.

Until such tme as eBay does eliminate it (the thing you've adimitted is a "feature"), I would think the best course of action would be to lobby eBay for its removal rather than accost, ridicule, or attempt to bully users into not using a tool that has been made available to them (whether it's to their benefit to use it or no).

You've said it yourself: it's there for a reason. So convince eBay to remove it. Until then, users have every right to employ it (even to their own detriment). Change the rules, not the players. *shrug*

[issybird]

A reserve price isn't going to affect me, one way or the other. It's been a while since I've bought much of anything on eBay, but I always sniped in the last seconds and had a sniping tool do it for me, meaning I'm not personally on line at the close.

That way, I see the auction, decide what it's worth to me, set up the snipe and walk away. If I win, fine; if I don't win, that's fine, too.

Since voters on eBay are irrational (i.e., they're influenced by what other people do), sniping is the only reasonable way to bid on any auction other than BINs. Early bids just jack up the price.

[ApK]

Originally Posted by DiapDealer

Until such tme as eBay does eliminate it (the thing you've adimitted is a "feature"), I would think the best course of action would be to lobby eBay for its removal rather than accost, ridicule, or attempt to bully users into not using a tool that has been made available to them (whether it's to their benefit to use it or no).

You've said it yourself: it's there for a reason. So convince eBay to remove it. Until then, users have every right to employ it (even to their own detriment). Change the rules, not the players. *shrug*

I wouldn't have expected such an attitude from you.

There's lots of things people SHOULDN'T do just because they can (see Jurassic Park), and i don't see why we shouldn't express opinions or make recommendations in a public discussion forum. I don't think I'm accosting or bullying anyone. Ridiculous opinions are subject to ridicule.

And why are you trying to accost, bully or ridicule me out of using the available feature of this forum to post opinions? Shouldn't you, by your reasoning, only be asking the mods to change the rules and not allow this discussion?

[ApK]

Originally Posted by issybird

A reserve price isn't going to affect me, one way or the other. It's been a while since I've bought much of anything on eBay, but I always sniped in the last seconds and had a sniping tool do it for me, meaning I'm not personally on line at the close.

That way, I see the auction, decide what it's worth to me, set up the snipe and walk away. If I win, fine; if I don't win, that's fine, too.

Since voters on eBay are irrational (i.e., they're influenced by what other people do), sniping is the only reasonable way to bid on any auction other than BINs. Early bids just jack up the price.

I totally agree about the value of sniping, but if you read some of those article I linked, it gives some reasoning as to why reserve auctions might more often be a signal of a less experienced seller who might not deliver as smooth a transaction for you, even if you win.

Again, why risk it? Evidence suggests they perform worse, some bidders are put off, and none, to my knowledge, think "Oh goody, a reserve! I prefer bidding on those!" So why do it? What's the value? I'm still waiting for an argument as to why reserves do anything positive that listing at an acceptable starting price wouldn't also do. We have established that reserve prices are legal and don't kill anyone. And they probably do as good a job at keeping tigers away as this stone I found in my driveway. So what?

[DiapDealer]

Originally Posted by ApK

And why are you trying to accost, bully or ridicule me out of using the available feature of this forum to post opinions? Shouldn't you, by your reasoning, only be asking the mods to change the rules and not allow this discussion?

The mistake you're making is that I'm not suggesting this (or any other) conversation be barred from taking place. I'm merely making suggestions that I think would help you better accomplish your goals. You're quite free to ignore my suggestion, however. I won't mind.

[BearMountainBooks]

I don't bid on reserve auctions. If someone wants to sell with a base price, that's fine. I can see that the bidding starts at X--so they don't have to "give it away" below a certain price. The cards are on the table, so to speak. Reserve prices just mean people end up having to guess and I don't have time for games when I'm shopping for something. In general, reserve auctions mean that someone has too high a "reserve" price and doesn't want to show the floor price because if he/she did there would be no interest. So I don't bid. I just move on and look for a fair price.

[issybird]

Originally Posted by BearMountainBooks

Reserve prices just mean people end up having to guess and I don't have time for games when I'm shopping for something.

But there's no guesswork involved. What the seller wants or thinks his item is worth is irrelevant. All you have to do is decide how much the item is worth to you. Bid that amount; if it beats the reserve, fine, and if it doesn't, that's fine, too, as you wouldn't have paid more.

What makes ebay difficult are irrational bidders who think of ebay as a traditional auction. It isn't. If everyone bid once and bid his maximum, it would be very efficient. But it's more the bidders who are influenced by other bidders to overvalue an item and not the sellers who try to profit thereby who turn it into a game.

[BearMountainBooks]

It's a moot point. I don't bid on reserve auctions if I notice they are reserve auctions.

[Hemmi]

I would only bid on a reserve auction if the seller disclosed their reserve price. A seller can always list that right in the auction text. By all means, if you want to sell your item, at least disclose a reserve price if a bidder asks you what it is. If you won't, I'll take my money elsewhere.

[ApK]

Originally Posted by BearMountainBooks

Reserve prices just mean people end up having to guess and I don't have time for games

Originally Posted by issybird

What makes ebay difficult are irrational bidders

Girls, girls, don't fight. They're both evil.

But seriously, I agree that reserves don't make me guess about anything. To me, they are simply a lie. They lure me there with the promise of a deal that doesn't actually exist. I'd rather bid on a more open and honest auction.

It's not a matter of getting something for nothing, but auctions are about trying to get a good deal if it's available, and trying to deal with sellers who will be honest in dealing with you.

[BearMountainBooks]

Originally Posted by ApK

Girls, girls, don't fight. They're both evil.

But seriously, I agree that reserves don't make me guess about anything. To me, they are simply a lie. They lure me there with the promise of a deal that doesn't actually exist. I'd rather bid on a more open and honest auction.

It's not a matter of getting something for nothing, but auctions are about trying to get a good deal if it's available, and trying to deal with sellers who will be honest in dealing with you.

Completely agree.

[Tarana]

Duplicate post

[Tarana]

Originally Posted by ApK

As I mentioned above, I can see that when the value of an item is highly speculative for both seller and potential buyers, then a reserve might be appropriate. The auction becomes essentially a mini stock exchange for establishing the value of that one item.

Ok, well, that is what I used it for, so I guess we are on the same page. It's a lot easier to set a minimum price when you have similar things that sell, not so easy when the item is hard to price (say completed cross stitch of a wanted designer or a signed copy of a book by a popular author).

There are also folks who put reserve prices on stuff NOT to sell the item but to find out how much interest it garners by people checking out the ad.