Marvin 3.0.6

[eschwartz]

Originally Posted by JSWolf

You just don't get it. That nonsense about ADE page numbers needing proprietary crap is 100% wrong. ADE pages numbers are calculated based on the contents of the ePub not some OPF garbage that causes a validation failure. Take a look at the count pages plugin. That correctly calculates ADE page numbers and does not use anything proprietary. It's just an algorithm that you program in the reading software and there you go, ADE page numbers. So please don't go saying things that are 100% false like it's true in order to further your agenda.

But that isn't even what he said...

The proprietary crap is what you need to override ADE page numbers with real page numbers.

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This isn't even a strawman argument.

You have actually accused JKenP of saying the exact opposite of what he in fact actually said, then proceeded to attack him over it.

I am not sure there are words to describe how completely off-kilter this is.

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I would also like to reiterate:

Originally Posted by eschwartz

@Faterson, @JSWolf,

I'll be happy to take the lead for the "down with all pagenumbers" side, if you cannot find anyone else.
Though really, feel free to carry on the catfight in the existing thread(s).

I really mean it.

We are more than happy to continue the catfight (at least I am)... just as long as you restrain yourselves to catfighting in the pre-existing catfight thread.

Jumping around from thread to thread and derailing them all in an attempt to make the issue look bigger than it is, annoy more people in the hope that they will have to take a side, and generally evade the resolutions made in other threads (to wit: you two out of all of Marvin's users are the only ones who care), is not very impressive and only serves to make your arguments look progressively sillier.

I am starting to wonder if you are merely trying to smear Marvin's reputation in revenge for @kguil disagreeing with you.

[Faterson]

I'm not sure what you're talking about, eschwartz, or who you're even talking to, but to make it clear for my part, there is no "jumping around from thread to thread" from me. Please consult the opening post of this thread: it's the release notes for Marvin 3.0.6, claiming to have "fixed page numbers". I reacted with exactly 5 lines of text, as brief as I could make them, pointing out that page numbers in Marvin are anything but fixed. I also took the trouble to post specific links to threads where this same issue was discussed earlier, so that it doesn't have to be discussed here, too.

But you couldn't let it go, could you? You, Turtle et al. had to go berserk over this once again.

Also, since when have you been promoted to the role of a MobileRead moderator, given that you feel you can constantly berate other MobileRead users?

As I said many times, the only reasonable way to discuss software issues is by strictly observing the "1 thread per issue" principle. I – not you – am the one who's been demanding that in these forums, and for years, but to no avail. That is why I've been advocating for Marvin's GitHub, because that crucial "1 thread per issue" principle can be more easily observed there. Here in MobileRead forums, due to the generic forum software, it's far more difficult or impossible. If this Marvin forum had real moderators instead of folks who simply enjoy snapping at fellow users, then the moderators would have long ago merged any duplicate threads dealing with page-counts or other frequently discussed Marvin issues.

[eschwartz]

Actually, I am pretty sure it is a matter of self-discipline.

On GitHub, an issue can be closed as a duplicate, on MobileRead a thread can be closed or merged... no limitations of the "generic" forum software... but if people continue to post mentions in other threads or issues, what do you do?

The fact that you continue to insist you believe in the "one issue per thread" paradigm, while at the same time going ahead and posting comments to irrelevant threads (e.g. this one here), tells me that you are being a hypocrite.
And yes, it is an irrelevant thread. kguil did not claim to have "fixed" the ideology behind the pagenumber calculations, he claimed a fix for what I can only assume is pagenumbers being calculated in a manner that failed to conform to any sane calculation at all (even, and specifically, the one Marvin was intended to display).

In other words, those "exactly 5 lines of text, as brief as I could make them" are exactly what I mean when I say "[j]umping around from thread to thread and derailing them all in an attempt to make the issue look bigger than it is".
And therefore, yes, I was talking to you in my previous post.

I hope this has cleared things up for you.

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The Marvin forum has four moderators, one of which is kguil and the other three of which are not active members (GRiker is permanently retired from MobileRead, he may in theory return one day but I wouldn't suggest planning on it, Philantrop and MeSue are infrequent posters one of whom has not been seen in over a year).

Perhaps there are valued, active members of the Marvin subforum who are willing to take on the responsibilities of being a Marvin moderator?

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Regardless, I hardly need to be a moderator in order to have the right to speak my mind and express my opinions on other members' posts.
If you feel I am "constantly berat[ing] other MobileRead users", well, have you considered the fact that you may be constantly complaining about the exact same thing, in inappropriate locations?

Of course, if you would rather just think I am going berserk, I cannot stop you...

[Turtle91]

Oh no... now you've gone and dunnit.... you gave him the idea to be a moderator...he considers himself the premier know-it-all of all things Marvin - the one and only true valued, active member on Marvin's subforum... If he is given that power, heaven help us all!!

[JSWolf]

delete post

[JSWolf]

Most people want page numbers. Because of this, Amazon added page numbers to Kindle eBooks. Page numbers do not have to be tied to some pBook version's page numbers. But page numbers do need to be constant so they do not change when you change settings (font, font size, line spacing, paragraph spacing, margins, etc.) and ADE page number do this. So that's why they are the best choice for eBook page numbers.

Given Marvin's way of offering choices, if anyone can come up with other page numbers that would work, add them in too and give us a choice of which we want to use.

The number of screens until the end of the chapter do work as they do what they are meant to do. But there are no other page numbers to show how much you have left. A % doesn't work. You don't know how long you have left if you are 40% into the book. Besides, 40% of one book is not the same as 40% of another book.

Does anyone have any other ideas on page numbering other than doing away with them?

[eschwartz]

Originally Posted by Turtle91

Oh no... now you've gone and dunnit.... you gave him the idea to be a moderator...he considers himself the premier know-it-all of all things Marvin - the one and only true valued, active member on Marvin's subforum... If he is given that power, heaven help us all!!

Alex (the site owner) is unlikely to make anyone a moderator unless they have a history of being helpful in the relevant subforum, and a good influence besides. The latter qualification being more important.

It isn't about what that person thinks that matters... it is what other people think about that person that will decide whether they are deserving of such power.

So I don't think you have to worry, one way or another.

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That does raise the interesting point though... which members do tend to serve in that way?
I wouldn't know, I am a fringe observer of this subforum. (I have a vague interest in most everything, but unless something catches my interest, like pagenumbers , I usually stick to Kindles and calibre. Marvin news is of side interest to me, but no more since I am not actually among the owners of iThings.)

[Turtle91]

Originally Posted by JSWolf

Most people want page numbers. Because of this, Amazon added page numbers to Kindle eBooks. Page numbers do not have to be tied to some pBook version's page numbers. But page numbers do need to be constant so they do not change when you change settings (font, font size, line spacing, paragraph spacing, margins, etc.) and ADE page number do this. So that's why they are the best choice for eBook page numbers.

Well, I'm not sure where you got the idea that "Most people want page numbers". Even if there are valid numbers to back them up, I seriously doubt they said "We want ADE page numbers" specifically. I think the rest of that paragraph is your opinion, which is fine. As I said before, I don't care either way. I'm just tired of seeing this topic show up in every. freekin. thread.

Originally Posted by JSWolf

The number of screens until the end of the chapter do work as they do what they are meant to do. But there are no other page numbers to show how much you have left. A % doesn't work. You don't know how long you have left if you are 40% into the book. Besides, 40% of one book is not the same as 40% of another book.

I mentioned the % left thing as what I, personally, look at...remember the part about I don't care about page numbers. However, all you need to do is go to settings to select how you want Marvin to show you how many pages you've read, or how many pages are left, or how many pages total, etc. There are many options.

Attached is a screenshot - notice the page numbers at the bottom. Pages read of pages total is how I set up that one. Yes it is only pages of that chapter because it's quite pointless (and time consuming) to calculate that number for chapters that aren't open yet. If you want an idea of how far till the end of the book look at the progress bar just under the page numbers. The exact number of pages remaining in the book really doesn't mean anything until you're on the last chapter anyway.

Percentage is exactly right for every book... If I've read 40%, then I have 60% left to go...or 1.5 times what I've already read. How many screen flips is that?? Who Cares?!?! It all depends on my rendering settings...or even if I have auto-scroll enabled....

I don't really care about comparing books either. I don't judge my reading prowess because I've read a book with 15000 pages or 150 pages... And if you are really set on comparing two books, then just look at the word count which Marvin provides. A book with 100,000 words is bigger than a book with 50,000 words in exactly the same way that a book with 1000 pages is bigger than a book with 500 pages.

Cheers,

[Turtle91]

Originally Posted by eschwartz

Alex (the site owner) is unlikely to make anyone a moderator unless they have a history of being helpful in the relevant subforum, and a good influence besides. The latter qualification being more important.

It isn't about what that person thinks that matters... it is what other people think about that person that will decide whether they are deserving of such power.

So I don't think you have to worry, one way or another.

...

That does raise the interesting point though... which members do tend to serve in that way?

Thank you - I can sleep soundly tonight!

Interesting question too - Definitely not me...I'd probably go all Bruce Almighty on a few posters.

[JSWolf]

You don't get it. The pages you show are not pages but screens. They change with different settings. Page numbers are meant to stay the same when settings change and ADE page numbers do so. One you get used to ADE page numbers, you get a sense of how much you've read and how much you have left better than a line and better than a %. You don't use ADE page numbers because you've gone Kindle. So unless you've experience with ADE page numbers, you have no idea with what you speak.

[Turtle91]

Nope...don't use kindle...just Marvin. And when you say "you get a sense of how much you've read and how much you have left" then you are saying that an exact number isn't really necessary. One is only better because you prefer it that way. That's fine too...but I find it very unbelievable when you make claims like "most people want page numbers" without posting some references.

And just because an ADE device is not in my recent usage list, does not mean I don't have a brain in my head. I'm old enough to have read enough text books and pBooks to be familiar with the concept thank you very much...

...and when reading pBooks I still never cared about what page I was on or exactly how many pages were left...I could see at a glance how far I'd read compared with how far I had to go by comparing the thickness of the two sides of the book - just like the progress bar shows how much I've read vs. how much I have to go in Marvin.

[JSWolf]

You may not care for page numbers but lots of people do care. So why not let them care instead of trying to take page numbers away?

[Turtle91]

Originally Posted by Turtle91

Well, I'm not sure where you got the idea that "Most people want page numbers". Even if there are valid numbers to back them up, I seriously doubt they said "We want ADE page numbers" specifically. I think the rest of that paragraph is your opinion, which is fine.

As I said before, I don't care either way. I'm just tired of seeing this topic show up in every. freekin. thread.

Emphasis added...

[eschwartz]

Originally Posted by JSWolf

You may not care for page numbers but lots of people do care. So why not let them care instead of trying to take page numbers away?

We cannot take away what you never had, right?

And it seems you feel that without ADE page numbers, you have nothing...

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@Turtle91,

Do try to remember that JSWolf tends to believe in absolutes, and his posts frequently conflate beliefs with facts. So the fact that he makes such a claim is not in fact all that unbelievable.

[pwalker8]

Originally Posted by Turtle91

Thank you - I can sleep soundly tonight!

Interesting question too - Definitely not me...I'd probably go all Bruce Almighty on a few posters.

Kind of depends on what this forum is suppose to be. If it's for Marvin and issues with Marvin, then there really aren't many choices. If it's to try to get certain posters to start playing nice with others, well good luck with that.

I've been the moderator on a forum on a different board who had to deal with one poster who was absolutely sure he was right, refused to follow the rules and refused to acknowledge anyone had the right to tell him that he that enough was enough. Not something that I would like to have to do again. Moderating is a tough job.