Marvin 3.0

[Grendel_]

okay what I hear you saying is you think its possible and you want it to be done but @kguil said he cant or wont (whatever). why do you keep arguing about it. it makes you sound like your throwing a tantrum. you complained that all 3 of my posts are arguments against you but looks like all your posts are wining about how your right and everyone else isnt.

[eschwartz]

Originally Posted by Faterson

Absolutely. What we need to do here, is to choose the lesser of two evils, because a perfect solution doesn't exist. So, what's the lesser evil here?

1. The user instructs Marvin to sort by authors' last names, but Marvin 3 ignores that and sorts authors by their first names anyway.
2. In the comprehensive authors listing, some authors (if the "author sort" meta-tags for some of their books are incorrect) may appear with double, triple, etc. entries – thus signaling to the Marvin user that his/her meta-tags need to be fixed.

Option 1 is the status quo in Marvin 3. Option 2 is my proposal to fix it. Which of the two is the lesser evil? Would anyone really argue it's option no. 1?


Nope, not necessary. I've always known and appreciated you as a fair debater, eschwartz. Unlike some hyper-politically-correct posters around here, I never assume ill will on the part of fellow MobileRead contributors. But you've really gotta be thick-skinned to participate here on MobileRead, because ill will is going to be imputed to you by others all the time...

Originally Posted by Faterson

Nope, you're mistaken. And the programmer never said it's impossible to implement my proposed solution – he couldn't say that, because of course it is possible to implement, since it's implemented in Marvin 2. Rather, Kris has so far refused to even consider the solution proposed by me, sticking to the preconceived notion that a solution doesn't exist. As I said, the misunderstanding of authors sorting goes back to Marvin 2 and Marvin 1. But in Marvin 2 and Marvin 1, at least, through a lucky coincidence in their development, I'd say, it was possible to arrive at the desired authors sorting. This is no longer possible in Marvin 3, and all we're left with is a clear-cut bug.

Well, obviously anything is "possible", given enough man-hours of programming.
I don't recall him saying it is impossible, ISTR he said it wasn't going to happen, "for technical reasons".

Not everything is worth the investment in time. And not everything is worth the performance penalties.

And once again, @kguil might simply disagree with you about which is the superior UI.
The best solution is simply not practical.
And your solution is only the "lesser evil" as a matter of opinion, I can hear both ways.

...

At one point, you insisted that @kguil was refusing to give examples demonstrating why it was a problem... and therefore you refused to believe it was a problem.
Can I assume you have backed down from that position, and we are now arguing about which solution is (in our respective subjective opinions) the best workaround for a clearly demonstrated problem?

(And surprisingly, it wasn't even difficult for someone to produce an example scenario. )

...

Also, FWIW, my ideal solution involves assuming regular English-style FN [MN] LN and sorting by the last word in the name.
But I am noted for my US-centrist views on everything...

EDIT: My second solution involves that elusive magic known as the "settings". Just in case the world wasn't full of enough settings -- but I happen to like settings and think the more the better.
And I still don't have any way of knowing whether that comes with performance penalties that @kguil deems not worth it. But there is definitely a complexity penalty for making "it" (whatever "it" may be) optional.

[JBaby]

Originally Posted by Faterson

Still nothing in that regard in Marvin 3. It's a bit easier to sync manually now (using AirDrop, for example, instead of emailing annotations back and forth between devices), but there's still no automatic syncing of highlights, annotations and bookmarks for now. This has been, from my and many other users' perspective, Marvin's no. 1 missing feature for almost 5 years now – ever since Marvin was born. We've just got to be patient.

I don't care about highlight, annotations, or bookmarks. I read strictly for pleasure.

Originally Posted by Faterson

Ah, if you guys mean simple location syncing, that works a lot better for me in Marvin 3 than in Marvin 2. iCloud is used in Marvin 3, as opposed to Dropbox in Marvin 2. In Marvin 3, just tap the button in the right corner of the bottom toolbar, and that will give you a very nice listing of possible locations to sync to. That's a lot more elegant solution, to me, than the rather haphazard method of location syncing in Marvin 2, and I'm also landing in the proper locations now in Marvin 3, unlike (frequently) in Marvin 2.

I agree it works way, way better, but I don't consider it automatic since I still have to press a button. It's not a deal breaker for me though. M3 could totally suck, but I'd still be all in because of auto-scroll!!!! The only thing I miss from Marvin 2 is my pink color theme. I personally don't like any of the the themes in M3. On the plus side I love having a dark theme. And I also love the automatic theme change based on ambient light.



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[democrite]

Highlights and annotation are incredibly useful for research and non-fiction. Concerning them, would most people consider highlighting much more used than notes attached to them? Similar to 2.x, I find switching highlight colors a bit cumbersome since the popup that lets you add notes appears together along with the keyboard. I'd much prefer a color selector that includes an add notes button to appear when you select an annotation, similar to iBooks and many other iOS PDF readers.

[sbjb]

Nice looking app. I'm playing around with it, and have a couple of questions (I've been using Marvin since Stanza stopped working, so I'm somewhat familiar with the basic usage.)

1. Is there a way to show the word count on the home screen? Sometimes, I want to pick a short book (cuz I've only got a little while to read, or a long book (cuz I've got several hours to kill).

2. Sync isn't working. It insists that I don't have iCloud turned on. I do, and I have iCloud Drive turned on, too.

[Poodlemom1]

I am having a problem with syncing. It worked yesterday between my iPhone 5S and my iPad mini 2 but won't today. I added M3 to my Air 2 tonight and it will sync with my phone. Neither of them show on the device list on the mini.


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[cocolinlin]

kguil
Thanks for Marvin 3
I bought it yesterday
I'm exploring it and I can't find the way to make visible (in the menu popping when you tap and hold on a word) the custom commands buttons.
In Marvin 2 I had 3 of these buttons
Il Marvin 3, only one generic button appears labeled "custom". And I have to tap on it to obtain a list of my 3 custom commands and to choose one of them.
Less convenient for my use.
Do I miss something ?

[kguil]

@democrite I'm working on a much faster way to change highlight colours.

@cocolinlin Right now, as you correctly point out, they're listed under a sub menu when you tap "Custom". This will improve considerably in an update.

@sbjb - Word count on screen - yes. Settings > General > List info box > Markers.

Re iCloud - Go to device settings > iCloud (make sure that everything looks OK). Then tap on iCloud Drive and make sure that Marvin is turned on.

[Kumabjorn]

Granted I'm new to iOS and Marvin but I haven't been able to figure out how annotations work. Highlights works just fine, but how do I insert a little pop-up note?

Twitter is to communications as haiku is to literature.

[kguil]

@Kuma Tap on it any choose the pencil from the menu. Otherwise, if you want an option add a note to a newly created highlight immediately: Settings > EPUB > Turn on "Highlight and Annotate". Note the EPUB menu is also accessible when you're in a book (In book Main Menu > Advanced EPUB settings).

[dandelioncottage]

I miss the pink theme too. And I'd love to see more light themes.

Originally Posted by JBaby

The only thing I miss from Marvin 2 is my pink color theme. I personally don't like any of the the themes in M3. On the plus side I love having a dark theme. And I also love the automatic theme change based on ambient light.

[kguil]

@dandelion Thanks for your feedback

[Poodlemom1]

I got my sync issue resolved. I deleted the book on my iPad mini and redownloaded it. Sync is working now.

[Mr. Goodbar]

Anyone else having sync issues. I can't get it to work across my ipad and iphone. I have confirmed they are both enabled in icloud drive.

[Faterson]

Originally Posted by JBaby

I don't care about highlight, annotations, or bookmarks. I read strictly for pleasure.

Congrats. I also earn my living with (proof)reading (and annotating).

Originally Posted by democrite

Highlights and annotation are incredibly useful for research and non-fiction.

Not just non-fiction. I annotate fiction every bit as much as non-fiction.

Originally Posted by cocolinlin

I can't find the way to make visible (in the menu popping when you tap and hold on a word) the custom commands buttons.

Ditto here. It now takes 2 taps to access the custom commands instead of one tap. But Kris has said he'd bring back the one-tap access, so that's great.

Originally Posted by eschwartz

Well, obviously anything is "possible", given enough man-hours of programming.

Please don't make mountains out of molehills. I'm pretty sure this is a trivial fix, if only Kris could be persuaded to implement it. He just doesn't like the idea, that's all – and for some reason unfathomable to me, Kris prefers the current crude mode of operation: sorting authors by their first names, even when the user explicitly selects the opposite option in Marvin settings.

Originally Posted by eschwartz

I don't recall him saying it is impossible, ISTR he said it wasn't going to happen, "for technical reasons".

And I maintain that no such "technical reasons" exist. Or if they do, please state some specific examples. The scenarios analyzed earlier in this thread are no "technical reasons" for not implementing the fix. They are quite natural scenarios that would occur as a result of incorrect meta-tags in the Library. What could be more natural? Marvin 2 could sort authors reasonably, Stanza could sort authors reasonably, Calibre can sort authors reasonably – but Marvin 3 as the only e-reader will insist that the crude sorting of authors by their first names is the only possible option "for technical reasons"? Sorry, but that's preposterous.

Originally Posted by eschwartz

And once again, @kguil might simply disagree with you about which is the superior UI.

Absolutely. If Kris insists on making Marvin 3 dumber than Marvin 2, that would be his choice – though an extremely unfortunate one, wouldn't you say? There's enough dumb software on this planet – why multiply it? Apple's philosophy is to make their software as low-IQ as they can possibly get away with. Why compete with Apple in this race to the bottom?

Originally Posted by eschwartz

The best solution is simply not practical.

I disagree – it's extremely hands-on and practical. When you see multiple listings for a single author in the comprehensive authors listing in your Library, this is a very practical alert for you to fix your meta-tags. What more could anyone wish for? Do you really believe that a user would prefer to see authors sorted according to their first names instead, even though he/she checked the "sort by last names" preference in Marvin settings?

Originally Posted by eschwartz

Can I assume you have backed down from that position

Nope, sorry. (Please see above for the explanation.)

Originally Posted by eschwartz

Also, FWIW, my ideal solution involves assuming regular English-style FN [MN] LN and sorting by the last word in the name. But I am noted for my US-centrist views on everything...

Nope, that wouldn't work at all. Many authors have several last names, and many books have several authors.

Why would you wish to re-invent the wheel, eschwartz? Everything Marvin 3 needs to produce reasonable authors sorting already is available in Marvin 3: namely, the (unfortunately labelled) "author sort" meta-tag field. That is all that is needed. The unacceptable flaw in Marvin 3 is that despite Marvin 3 having such a meta-tag field, it chooses to ignore the data entered in that field in the comprehensive authors listing. And that's a big no-no, as I believe even you admitted.

And I must say it again: Marvin has always misused that "author sort" field, even in Marvin 1 and Marvin 2, because (I apologize to Kris) I believe Kris has misunderstood the field's true purpose all along, ever since Marvin was born. But, in Marvin 1 and Marvin 2, we could at least get around that misunderstanding on the part of the software developer, due to there being (absurdly), in Marvin 1 and Marvin 2, two sets of author sortings, titled (absurdly) "Author..." and "Author sort...". Please believe me, eschwartz, that I was alerting Kris to this anomaly 4 years ago, 3 years ago, and 2 years ago... to no avail. Kris is, overall, an extremely responsive and forthcoming developer, and a very nice guy to talk to, but in certain matters, when he sets his mind on something, he can be (my apologies to Kris again) phenomenally muleheaded, and he just won't budge a milimeter, and that's too bad. But, I'm not giving up hope. We may yet see the light one day, especially collectively. So, now Kris believes he has improved authors sorting in Marvin 3, thanks to removing those double menu items for authors sorting (which truly never were necessary) – but in reality, authors sorting is now in an even worse state in Marvin 3 than it ever was in Marvin 1 or Marvin 2.

Originally Posted by eschwartz

And I still don't have any way of knowing whether that comes with performance penalties that @kguil deems not worth it.

Well, all I know is that the fix I'm proposing does not come with any performance penalties whatsoever – because it's a trivial fix, fully logical and reasonable, and because I simply wish for Marvin 3 to work like Marvin 2 and Marvin 1 in terms of authors sorting: allowing us to sort authors either by their last names, or by their first names – whichever option the Marvin user prefers. And this is perfectly possible even with the current menu options in Marvin 3 – if only Kris finally agreed to put the meta-tag fields, primarily that (unfortunately labeled) "author sort" field, to their proper use!