PW3: anything available to turn off LED

[Cinisajoy]

I sent you pictures.
If knc1 or eschwartz is interested in the side topic, they can message me here.
"However, some anecdotal evidence studies suggest that continuous exposure to certain EM frequencies (such as under 50/60-Hz high-tension powerlines) affect plant growth (increase it) and may also alter or stimulate unwanted biological activity in mammals due to resonating molecules of corresponding size. Such things are more pseudoscience than science, until proven otherwise, but not necessarily impossible."

[Yourcat]

@Cinisajoy: The changing electric/magnetic field does improve grows, at least initially. Too much of it is bad, leading to cancer/random growth/death. So it makes sense to keep as far away as possible from Wifi, 50/60Hz and microwaves. Even if the radiated power is small. Antennas and the body receive and react to the changing fields.
As science won't research there one calls it pseudo-science.

[geekmaster]

Originally Posted by Yourcat

@Cinisajoy: The changing electric/magnetic field does improve grows, at least initially. Too much of it is bad, leading to cancer/random growth/death. So it makes sense to keep as far away as possible from Wifi, 50/60Hz and microwaves. Even if the radiated power is small. Antennas and the body receive and react to the changing fields.
As science won't research there one calls it pseudo-science.

Interesting claims, but where is your NON-pseudoscience evidence? Quite contrary to your bogus "science won't research" claim, MANY double-blind studies found that people who BELIEVED they were exposed to EM (even when not) sufferered allergies. Nocebo effect every time. If you are interested in researching your own nonscientific belief system on this topic in a scientific way, follow the references starting here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electr...persensitivity

"Electromagnetic hypersensitivity (EHS) is a proposed pathological sensitivity to electromagnetic fields in the environment. ... Those who are self-described with EHS report responding to low-level electromagnetic fields at intensities well below the maximum levels permitted by international radiation safety standards. ... double-blind experiments have shown that people who report electromagnetic hypersensitivity are unable to detect the presence of electromagnetic fields and are as likely to report ill health following a sham exposure as they are following exposure to genuine electromagnetic fields, suggesting the cause in these cases to be the nocebo effect."

But electrical exposure does have its uses.

Electric bone growth stimulation: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2762253/

Electric brain stim for faster learning: http://www.wired.com/2013/05/brain-stimulation-math/

And for pain relief: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Transc...ve_stimulation

And medical diathermy (even using the same 2.45GHz frequency of wifi and microwave ovens): http://www.healthline.com/health/diathermy

And Samsung has been demonstrating VR goggles with GVS (galvanic vestibular stimulation) which electrically stimulate the brain to make you feel rotation that matches the rotating virtual scenery: http://www.theverge.com/2016/3/14/11...t-vr-inner-ear

And a DIY GVS version I posted years ago: http://www.mtbs3d.com/phpbb/viewtopi...100783#p100783

However, as I said before, excessive exposure to ionizing radiation (shortwave UV, X-rays, cosmic radiation, etc.) can cause biological damage. And you get WAY MORE of that flying on airlines than in medical x-rays, which is a concern for repeated exposure: http://www.cdc.gov/niosh/topics/airc...radiation.html

Also as mentioned before, even human bodies emit radiation (photons at LWIR frequencies visible on thermal cameras). Here is a wonderful chart from xkcd showing relative exposures (too big to post, so a link): https://xkcd.com/radiation/

So yeah, though politicians are easily confused by science and do pass bogus laws, EM allergies have pretty well been proven false, and websites pushing it are pseudoscience. Wifi is more than safe. Personal beliefs are fine, but your bold public claims need a bold preponderance of evidence, especially when there is a ton on evidence to the contrary as I have shown beyond a shadow of a doubt (and I barelt scratched the surface).

Thus ends another great "little professor" lecture.

[Yourcat]

Thanks for this nice lecture. One will discuss these things for years.

Mixing EM and allergies is pseudoscience. As we all know the digestive system is protected very good from EM and usually the source for allergies. Getting an allergy is just the result of the self-fulfilling prophecy told the people before the study. The EM effects are not that easy to spot.
Wifi with 0.1W vs 1kW microwave is indeed a big difference while some people wear their smartphone 12h a day.
Besides, what happens if a drop of water hits the floor? Can you see the stalagmite already?

[NullNix]

Originally Posted by Yourcat

Thanks for this nice lecture. One will discuss these things for years.

Mixing EM and allergies is pseudoscience. As we all know the digestive system is protected very good from EM and usually the source for allergies. Getting an allergy is just the result of the self-fulfilling prophecy told the people before the study. The EM effects are not that easy to spot.
Wifi with 0.1W vs 1kW microwave is indeed a big difference while some people wear their smartphone 12h a day.
Besides, what happens if a drop of water hits the floor? Can you see the stalagmite already?

The digestive system is at body temperature. As such, it is saturated with thermal electromagnetic radiation, just like every other part of our bodies, inside and out.

As for allergies being associated with the digestive system, well, yes. That's because the mechanism of action of allergies is specifically an overreaction of mast cells, which sit in mucous membranes -- such as the digestive system -- specifically in order to kill off things arriving from the outside world before they can do harm.

There's been a lot of progress in this area of late. Allergies have long been mysterious: counter to what you learn in school, they are not caused by the immune system mistakenly assuming a bit of pollen is something disease-causing or something like that, and going into overdrive because pollen delivers such a large dose.

In the 90s it was discovered that nearly all antibodies cannot trigger allergic reactions: only one newly-discovered, rare subtype, immunoglobulin E, can do it, and for some time nobody knew what IgE was for: it couldn't just be for triggering allergic reactions! That's now been answered as well: it responds to eukaryotic parasites, mostly helminths (parasitic worms and flukes) but also things like P. falciparum. Where are parasitic worms found in nature? The intestinal tract (right up to the nose, horrifyingly) and the skin, just where the mast cells which detonate to cause allergic reactions are found. So we know why allergic reactions are so common: we don't get parasitic worms any more, and this component of our immune system gets hypersensitized and triggers on the wrong sort of multicellular eukaryote: pollen, rather than worms. This also explains why giving yourself tapeworms can often cure allergies, though frankly I prefer my pollen filter.

Even the specific symptoms of allergic reactions are explained by this hypothesis: why does an allergic reaction induce sneezing? Because it washes out parasitic worms in the nose, mouth, and airways. (I'm just glad evolution didn't go the whole hog and have allergic reactions give us diarrhoea as well. That's probably because sneezing isn't lethal, but diarrhoea often is: there's no point wiping out your parasitic worms if you die of dehydration and give your entire tribe cholera shortly afterwards.)

So, yes, allergies *are* associated with digestion, but because the digestive system is where you find tapeworms, not because it's a magic no-EM zone. (The Wikipedia article on immunoglobulin E has a lot of useful links on this subject.)

[geekmaster]

Originally Posted by Yourcat

Thanks for this nice lecture. One will discuss these things for years.

Mixing EM and allergies is pseudoscience. As we all know the digestive system is protected very good from EM and usually the source for allergies. Getting an allergy is just the result of the self-fulfilling prophecy told the people before the study. The EM effects are not that easy to spot.
Wifi with 0.1W vs 1kW microwave is indeed a big difference while some people wear their smartphone 12h a day.
Besides, what happens if a drop of water hits the floor? Can you see the stalagmite already?

Agreed that it could be a cumulative effect, if the exposure rate is too high. Your body is pretty good at removing damaged pieces at the cellular level (even cancer) until it isn't. Autoimmune diseases are not a joke, and we do not know what triggers many of them (such as Meniere's Disease, which causes intermittent deafness, thought to be an autoimmune problem, like most other inflammations).

I use earphones for long conversations (especially in weak signal areas where the phone uses a higher transmit power). Not so much for "allergies", but because it is so close to my eyeball (where heating cooks them causing cataracts). But wifi? It is absorbed by water and causes mostly heating effects (yeah, in eyeballs too). I worry more about potential resonant hormone stimulation from high-power ELF, not about WiFi (much weaker than cellphones), and of course, such hormone-stim is very frequency-selective (if even a problem, though some claim children should not use electric blankets to keep warm), due to that "hormone stim" thing perhaps affecting growth rates in children. But adults? Probably no worries, until proven otherwise (as double-blind experiments show). The nocebo effect BELIEF SYSTEM is as damaging as the placebo belief system is helpful, but only for those who believe. Science and knowledge tend to damage such false but effective (just like witchdoctor medicine) belief systems.

[geekmaster]

Originally Posted by NullNix

... we don't get parasitic worms any more, and this component of our immune system gets hypersensitized and triggers on the wrong sort of multicellular eukaryote: pollen, rather than worms. This also explains why giving yourself tapeworms can often cure allergies, though frankly I prefer my pollen filter. ...

Interesting, and thanks for the informative post! I read awhile back (too lazy to find a link now, before my morning coffee) that immune systems need exercise to be effective, and they become aggressive bullies, attacking their own neighbors when they get out of shape (i.e. autoimmune attacks).

Even for cancer. In areas with high natural radiation, there is a high correspondence with longevity (because almost no cancer even at their "longest in the world" typical lifespan). Studies suggest it is the constant radiation exposure that exercises their immune systems to be much more effective at eliminating pre-cancer cells. I will post a link here if I find one...

So it appears that the "moderation in all things" even applies to ionizing radiation. Too much or too little are both bad. Just like germs. There is a high correspondence between autoimmune diseases and being raised in a "too clean" environment. Not too mention MRSA in American hospitals. Perhaps we would be healthier raised with dirt floors? Well, other than the parasite problem that often accompanies such living conditions. But eating dirt should perhaps NOT be discouraged in children, eh? Eating food pulled fresh out of the ground too, should we wash it or not (removing government food safety warnings from the equations).

[HarryT]

Originally Posted by geekmaster

Interesting, and thanks for the informative post! I read awhile back (too lazy to find a link now, before my morning coffee) that immune systems need exercise to be effective, and they become aggressive bullies, attacking their own neighbors when they get out of shape (i.e. autoimmune attacks).

It has been suggested that the massive increase in allergies in children is due to the fact that children in western countries tend to be brought up in overly sterile environments, and so their immune systems don't develop a healthy resistance to all sorts of bugs that children were exposed to when I was a child in the 1960s.

[knc1]

The nocebo effect BELIEF SYSTEM is as damaging as the placebo belief system is helpful, but only for those who believe.

Isn't this bordering on questioning the tenets of some people's religion?

There has been enough trouble throughout history over tenets of people's religions, lets not start a new holy war at this forum.

[geekmaster]

Belief systems are not religion, though the reverse is true. Efficacy and scientific reality are independent, which is why religions (and pseudoscience medicine) work for those who believe. In fact, some folks call SCIENCE a religion.

Those who wish to continue to believe should not stimulate such a discussion amongst "hard science" nerds if they do not want a scientific education that may damage their (previously) effective belief system.

[geekmaster]

Originally Posted by HarryT

It has been suggested that the massive increase in allergies in children is due to the fact that children in western countries tend to be brought up in overly sterile environments, and so their immune systems don't develop a healthy resistance to all sorts of bugs that children were exposed to when I was a child in the 1960s.

That is what I tried to say, but your words are somewhat more eloquent on that topic.

My parents sent me to visit children at home in bed, who had various childhood diseases, so I could get it young without the nasty problems that come when adults contract such childhood diseases. That highly beneficial practice was common before immunization therapy (essentially the same thing, in a way), but probably considered "child abuse" (or even "terrorism") these days in some communities.

And with the proven-false link between immunization and autism (a genetic condition) causing such a stir, we may even see the return of polio. But it is especially worrying for folks with compromised immune systems...

[HarryT]

Oh, absolutely, yes. "Measles parties" were a normal thing in Britain in the 1960s. If a local child caught a mild childhood illness like measles or chickenpox, all the local parents would send their children around in the hope of them catching it. As you say, this would probably be regarded as child abuse by some today!

[geekmaster]

More worries for those allergic to the idea of EM (electro-magnetic) exposure (some of whom contradictorily believe exposure to therapeutic electro-magnetic fields cures all ills):

FCC TO INVESTIGATE RAISED RF NOISE FLOOR

Conurbation? That sounds like a dirty word...

[Cinisajoy]

Originally Posted by HarryT

Oh, absolutely, yes. "Measles parties" were a normal thing in Britain in the 1960s. If a local child caught a mild childhood illness like measles or chickenpox, all the local parents would send their children around in the hope of them catching it. As you say, this would probably be regarded as child abuse by some today!

In 1990, I was told by my pediatrician to let my baby (under 6 months old) go spend time with a child that had the chickenpox. He said she was too young to catch it but would develop the antibodies.
No that didn't work but she didn't get the chickenpox then. She got them when she was 4.

[Yourcat]

@NullNix Let's hope that the external EM field is not so strong that it penetrates 2cm skin/fat and influences directly the inner body parts. It should be shorted by the sourrounding body. That's one of the reasons why there's a Colon therapy.