Can't eBooks be beautiful if they're not designed?

[crich70]

Originally Posted by pdurrant

Current eReaders bear a remarkable resemblance to the first E-Ink ereaders of 8-9 years ago....

I think eReaders are much like the P.A.D.D. of Star Trek myself. Granted that devices like the Kindle Fire are closer to that device in that they can access the net, be used to play games, view movies, etc. but even the dedicated devices are pretty close to what used to be pure Sci. Fi. tech.

[murg]

Originally Posted by MGlitch

I'd have thought of Wonder Woman, or a certain river .

Going along with your analogy (which I snipped from the quote as it should be the post directly above this one), ebooks are due for reform now. They went through a period of relative obscurity where few people picked them up, and have at this point captured a noticeable percentage of the market (I am not arguing that they are taking over the market).

Improving the design of ebooks would involve the publishers to spend money on them. Since the publishers aren't even spending money on fixing OCR errors at the moment, nor even spending money on proof-reading physical books, I shan't wait for publishers to start spending money on adding some more design to ebooks.

[sydmalicious]

Originally Posted by Cinisajoy

On a book's layout.
I bought an ereader so I could adjust the font. I also don't care about small caps and stuff like that.

Using my iPad and apps like Marvin, I rarely have an issue with layout. The text is crisp and rendered the way I like so I don't pay attention to it.

I may be in the minority but tbh layouts don't bother me unless the offsetting and text alignment is super noticeably out of whack.

[sydmalicious]

Originally Posted by murg

Improving the design of ebooks would involve the publishers to spend money on them. Since the publishers aren't even spending money on fixing OCR errors at the moment, nor even spending money on proof-reading physical books, I shan't wait for publishers to start spending money on adding some more design to ebooks.

Publishers aren't even spending money on marketing and promotion, leaving mid-list authors to build some ridiculous social media platform. And they don't really care about ebooks so of course they are going to be stingy with the funds for ebook layouts.

[Hitch]

Originally Posted by murg

Improving the design of ebooks would involve the publishers to spend money on them. Since the publishers aren't even spending money on fixing OCR errors at the moment, nor even spending money on proof-reading physical books, I shan't wait for publishers to start spending money on adding some more design to ebooks.

Indeed. We tried swimming in publisher-house waters, but for what they pay for an entire book, we could barely do a chapter. That's hyperbole, of course--but not by much.

Originally Posted by sydmalicious

Publishers aren't even spending money on marketing and promotion, leaving mid-list authors to build some ridiculous social media platform. And they don't really care about ebooks so of course they are going to be stingy with the funds for ebook layouts.

I'm not sure I'd call it "ridiculous." I'm constantly surprised at the phenomenon of fans wanting personal contact with authors. I mean, sure, if I was already in a bookstore, and one of my fave authors happened to be there, great, I'd probably grab a signature, or something, but get all stalk-ery, on a website? Meh.

Nonetheless--it's obviously something that works. Indy authors that cultivate that type of relationship, create mailing lists, send out announcements and the like seem to have better sales than those that don't.

FWIW.

Hitch

[Cinisajoy]

Originally Posted by Hitch

Indeed. We tried swimming in publisher-house waters, but for what they pay for an entire book, we could barely do a chapter. That's hyperbole, of course--but not by much.



I'm not sure I'd call it "ridiculous." I'm constantly surprised at the phenomenon of fans wanting personal contact with authors. I mean, sure, if I was already in a bookstore, and one of my fave authors happened to be there, great, I'd probably grab a signature, or something, but get all stalk-ery, on a website? Meh.

Nonetheless--it's obviously something that works. Indy authors that cultivate that type of relationship, create mailing lists, send out announcements and the like seem to have better sales than those that don't.

FWIW.

Hitch

Some indie authors even hold contests to name characters and advise on other stuff.
They actively engage their readers.

But then, there is the flip side to that one.
Some authors will cull their mailing list if the reader does not actively click a link to their website or if it appears the reader isn't looking at it. Some people use mail previewers.

Now the funniest one that ever happened to me was an author got upset because I left a comment on a review at Amazon so he kicked me off his mailing list.
Oh well, his loss.

[Hitch]

Originally Posted by Cinisajoy

Some indie authors even hold contests to name characters and advise on other stuff.
They actively engage their readers.

Indeed. Many of our clients do precisely that, along with free book contests, meet-the-author contests, etc. Seems to really work. (This may well explain why I can never write a book. I'm such a cranky old bat...the idea of "meet the author" would make all my hair fall out.)

But then, there is the flip side to that one.
Some authors will cull their mailing list if the reader does not actively click a link to their website or if it appears the reader isn't looking at it. Some people use mail previewers.

That seems utterly bizarre to me. Why on earth would an author do that? I suppose if it's Stephen King, or whomever, sure, but an Indy? If an Indy author is paying for his mailing list, based on volume, I can certainly see curation for cost control. But let's face it, most are using Mailchimp and that ilk, and the tiers are pretty damned tall, in terms of costs.

Now the funniest one that ever happened to me was an author got upset because I left a comment on a review at Amazon so he kicked me off his mailing list.
Oh well, his loss.

Again--utterly bizarro. WHY do that? Why alienate even a single reader? We all know that readers can be like super-powered dominoes, via WOM (word-of-mouth), which in this day and age, with Tweeting, FaceBooking, etc, can be gigantic. Was it a shitty comment? Or...? Happy readers can be like breeding bunnies, creating ever-more bunnies. Unless you or some other reader were total asshats, I can't understand the logic.



I don't get it.

Hitch

[Cinisajoy]

Originally Posted by Hitch

Indeed. Many of our clients do precisely that, along with free book contests, meet-the-author contests, etc. Seems to really work. (This may well explain why I can never write a book. I'm such a cranky old bat...the idea of "meet the author" would make all my hair fall out.)



That seems utterly bizarre to me. Why on earth would an author do that? I suppose if it's Stephen King, or whomever, sure, but an Indy? If an Indy author is paying for his mailing list, based on volume, I can certainly see curation for cost control. But let's face it, most are using Mailchimp and that ilk, and the tiers are pretty damned tall, in terms of costs.



Again--utterly bizarro. WHY do that? Why alienate even a single reader? We all know that readers can be like super-powered dominoes, via WOM (word-of-mouth), which in this day and age, with Tweeting, FaceBooking, etc, can be gigantic. Was it a shitty comment? Or...? Happy readers can be like breeding bunnies, creating ever-more bunnies. Unless you or some other reader were total asshats, I can't understand the logic.



I don't get it.

Hitch

Nope, no shitty comments. Just honesty about the book.
The author made some unbelievable statements that his editor should have caught and said something about.
The book was just not up to the standards his readers expected.
It seemed like he started listening to the wrong crowd.
This crowd was every book must have nudity. Now I don't mind nudity in a mystery if there is some purpose to the nudity but just to get a cup of coffee and then get dressed nope.
Also he repeated too much from his previous books, not important stuff just trivia.
And lastly too graphic and incorrect on one scene.
Sorry but you really don't want your readers throwing up mid-book.
Gory murder scene ok. Guy cleaning out his undies (ewww).

[Hitch]

Originally Posted by Cinisajoy

Nope, no shitty comments. Just honesty about the book.

Uh...something tells me, Cin, that you and he may have different tiers of distinction between honest comments and evil ones. :-)

The author made some unbelievable statements that his editor should have caught and said something about.
The book was just not up to the standards his readers expected.
It seemed like he started listening to the wrong crowd.

Was this a traditional author? I mean, trade-pubbed? I saw an author--actually, really, two of them--go in wildly different directions on books, and both were trade-pubbed. I suspect that midlisters that are Indy-pubbing are more responsive to their readers than most others. Bestsellers don't have to, and the others--all those folks crowing about their "experimental" fiction (you know, that experiment that says that you don't need quotation marks, or any mechanism to tell one paragraph from another, and that dialogue paragraphs should be indented, while narrative should be flush-left...) don't seem to give two hoots, or at least, claim that they are indifferent to, reader feedback.

This crowd was every book must have nudity. Now I don't mind nudity in a mystery if there is some purpose to the nudity but just to get a cup of coffee and then get dressed nope.

This reminds me of Laurell K. Hamilton. Started out with a perfectly good urban fiction detective/mystery series, and descended like a homesick rock into what can be politely called, er, "romantica?" (Maybe?). I finally gave up on her, quite a few years/books back, but I was pretty disappointed that the series just did a 180 like that. Or maybe even a 270.

Also he repeated too much from his previous books, not important stuff just trivia.
And lastly too graphic and incorrect on one scene.

Ah, yes, recycled content. A real favorite.

Sorry but you really don't want your readers throwing up mid-book.
Gory murder scene ok. Guy cleaning out his undies (ewww).

OK--that's a gorge-riser, right there. What author is this? If you wish to say?

Returning this thread to its original topic,

Hitch

[Cinisajoy]

Originally Posted by Hitch

Uh...something tells me, Cin, that you and he may have different tiers of distinction between honest comments and evil ones. :-)



Was this a traditional author? I mean, trade-pubbed? I saw an author--actually, really, two of them--go in wildly different directions on books, and both were trade-pubbed. I suspect that midlisters that are Indy-pubbing are more responsive to their readers than most others. Bestsellers don't have to, and the others--all those folks crowing about their "experimental" fiction (you know, that experiment that says that you don't need quotation marks, or any mechanism to tell one paragraph from another, and that dialogue paragraphs should be indented, while narrative should be flush-left...) don't seem to give two hoots, or at least, claim that they are indifferent to, reader feedback.



This reminds me of Laurell K. Hamilton. Started out with a perfectly good urban fiction detective/mystery series, and descended like a homesick rock into what can be politely called, er, "romantica?" (Maybe?). I finally gave up on her, quite a few years/books back, but I was pretty disappointed that the series just did a 180 like that. Or maybe even a 270.



Ah, yes, recycled content. A real favorite.


OK--that's a gorge-riser, right there. What author is this? If you wish to say?

Returning this thread to its original topic,

Hitch

So as not to derail completely will pm you.

[Hitch]

Originally Posted by Cinisajoy

So as not to derail completely will pm you.

Good-o. Don't want those good folks being derailed. :-)

Hitch