MobileRead May 2016 Discussion: The Steerswoman (spoilers)

[Grey Ram]

Originally Posted by DiapDealer

She's not a Steerswoman at that point. She resigned to take up the quest--so she could lie (and be lied to or ignored). From the time they leave the Archives in chapter eleven until she gets captured by Shammer and Dhree in chapter twenty-two, she's not bound by the usual Steerswoman rules.

ooops, you're right and I retract that. It would have been interesting to watch her squirm at not being able to get the information though
But I seem to remember that she got her ring and pendant back before ambushing the soldiers and that's what got her relation to Will on better terms.

[caleb72]

I finished the book and enjoyed it.

I didn't have any particular issue with torture or mass murder as I live in a world that is supposed to be civilised but can still justify both quite easily.

I didn't necessarily consider the Wizards bad, just like I didn't necessarily consider the Steerswomen to be good. I could definitely see why they were in different corners though. The Wizards seemed to have a responsibility that wasn't really revealed and this may have impacted their protection of information and Steerswomen were almost fanatical about freedom of information.

I was not surprised at all to find the obvious contradiction of lying side-stepped in a grand "ends justifies the means" rationale. This is not an uncommon situation in this world, so I felt quite at home in this story. I even liked the fact that the "good guys" hired a particularly brutal attack dog who - for reasons not really that obvious - decides to make their quest her own. I doubt we'll see her betray her current "loyalties", but it did feel a bit like previous alliances of the U.S. with characters such as Saddam Hussein and Bin Laden - good while they're on your side.

I was neither here nor there on the classification. I think fantasy still fits as the genre as of this episode. On the other hand, I'm not totally uncomfortable with a science fiction classification either. It seems like the series is going to gradually move more and more into the science fiction arena - so the destination of the story is likely the deciding factor.

It was a good story. I gave it 4 stars.

[RosemaryKirstein]

Originally Posted by Grey Ram

But I seem to remember that she got her ring and pendant back before ambushing the soldiers and that's what got her relation to Will on better terms.

Um, no... she didn't put on her ring and chain, and return to being a steerswoman until the scene where she was being questioned by Shammer and Dhree.

What got her on a better basis with Willam was that she told him who she really was, and she no longer had to maintain the entire fake persona. She could speak to him as honestly as she chose, but was not duty-bound to do so; and he was also free to decline to answer questions-- which he did, regarding the nature of his magical abilities.

[RosemaryKirstein]

Originally Posted by caleb72

I even liked the fact that the "good guys" hired a particularly brutal attack dog who - for reasons not really that obvious - decides to make their quest her own.

Thanks for the four stars -- but you do know that Bel wasn't "hired,", right?

Rowan and Bel went undercover, as Attise the merchant and Sala the hired bodyguard; but that was just a cover story.

[caleb72]

Originally Posted by RosemaryKirstein

Thanks for the four stars -- but you do know that Bel wasn't "hired,", right?

Rowan and Bel went undercover, as Attise the merchant and Sala the hired bodyguard; but that was just a cover story.

Yes. If she was hired her decision to stay would have made more sense. The 'hired' was just a careless slip.

[nurseshelly]

Originally Posted by CRussel

In some sense, I'm with Tom here. I pretty much ignored any political overtones, because I was caught up on the science. For me, the highlight of the entire book was Rowan's working out how the Guidestars are falling but never reach the ground. The scientific method laid out in logical detail.

Other high points include the overall world building - the very concept of having a whole group of people whose job it is to walk around and learn while teaching. (Yes, there are other examples in history, but none with quite this flavour that I'm aware of.)

Also, the relationship between Bel and Rowan, and the development of both characters. As some here know, I'm strongly drawn to books that are character driven, and especially when there are strong female characters who are more than just "super-amazons". In The Steerswoman, we have two very different women protagonists who are both multi-faceted. (Both characters continue to grow in later books in the series, but I'm trying to avoid going into anything there.)

Finally, the one thing I really, really didn't like. I thought the scene with Bel extracting information was unnecessary, inappropriate, and detracted from both the story and the character. And I'd actually like to ask Rosemary to justify it, or explain why she thought it was necessary.

Hi Charlie,

I agree with all of your thoughts on the book. I also especially like how two such different women were drawn together and grow as characters in the book.

It was interesting for me how the author showed how each character was working things out for themselves too. I don't usually see this in as much detail in other books.

I also agree about the information scene as being unnecessary, and I'm not really sure why it needed to be in the book.

I went on to read the entire series and have enjoyed them to date.

Actually that's kind of why I forgot to start talking about them - I already finished the series, another trilogy and am now on a new set. I read too fast and I can't help it. I think because my son interrupts me and it made me start reading faster and faster and now I'm in the habit of trying to cram it in asap before he interrupts me. He's older now and doesn't interrupt like he used to, but I have difficulty slowing down.

[nurseshelly]

Originally Posted by Dazrin

I can certainly understand that position. The Steerswoman, even after spoiling it for myself and knowing I was wrong, still had me fooled. It just never felt like a science fiction book. In the vote thread one person went as far as "this is fantasy, not science fiction, we need a do-over!" And that was after being ensured that it was SF. I really liked that slightly confused feeling, not many books can completely fool you as to what genre they are. Especially not after being told what it is.

The largest "science fiction masquerading as fantasy" series that I can think of is the Pern series. They have fire-breathing dragons and a low tech society but when the reveal about their beginnings came and we find out that it is science fiction rather than fantasy it wasn't that surprising. I felt more relief than anything. "Oh, that's why this hasn't felt like fantasy. It isn't!"

With The Steerswoman, even though I spoiled it for myself and the dragons feel a little mechanical (glass eyes breaking?) and there is obviously a lot of high-technology being hidden by the wizards, the story always felt like a fantasy. I know in my head that it is science fiction but the writing style says THIS IS FANTASY and I just can't get my heart to believe anything else. Wonderful feeling really.

I know ... it was science - and that was clear with the steerswoman using such a scientific - almost scientific method approach to finding things out. But at the same time technology hidden to not look like technology to "regular" people. I kept waiting for the wizards to have "magic" even though it was science fiction, I felt like the book should have both because of how it was written.

[nurseshelly]

Originally Posted by DiapDealer

Agreed. There's some rather advanced technology being described (and slowly revealed to the reader) by characters who don't have enough perspective to differentiate it from magic (from satellites to printed circuit boards, and solar panels and such). I think it's a mistake to assume that Willam's "magic" was limited to something as primitive as black powder. I get the distinct impression that his seemingly inherent chemical knowledge (albeit, perhaps, limited to things explosive in nature) is not at all basic.

A question for those who've read all four books (so far) in this series: I typically don't like to start a series until it's finished (or at least reached a very solid and satisfying stopping point). If I read the next three books, am I going to reach such a satisfying jump-off point? Or will I be left completely in the lurch waiting for books as yet unpublished? I'm a very patient waiter, but I just like to know before-hand.

You will be in the lurch ... in case nobody else answered. Almost mid-sentence. sigh

Same with book three, but it's okay because book four is out and you can immediately download it and pick up where you left off.

[fantasyfan]

I found it to be an enjoyable read and I may well continue the series. As to the genre perhaps it could be classed as "science fantasy" a term recognised in the "Encyclopedia of Science Fiction" though they do state that it was in general use primarily between 1950-1966. Science fantasy does not necessarily contain the types of magical characters found in pure fantasy but "these may be present, often in a quasirationalizesd form." I think that Meredith Ann Pierce does create a kind of science fantasy in her "Dark Angel" sequence. The "Incomplete Enchanter" by de Camp and Pratt would be another.

I think that Pierce puts the emphasis on science and de Camp/Pratt on fantasy. Though I suppose that hairsplitting categories isn't all that important, I very much enjoy the unique approach of Kerstein in her book.

[bfisher]

I read this book as science fiction. It seemed like a lost colony - mostly reverted to a wind-and-muscle energy technology. There is residual high-technology - satellites, but starting to fail (jewels are debris from an orbital that fell out of orbit). The planet is gradually being terraformed by (bioengineered?) goats. Are the wizards descended from Crew, with some access to tech?

[CRussel]

Originally Posted by bfisher

I read this book as science fiction. It seemed like a lost colony - mostly reverted to a wind-and-muscle energy technology. There is residual high-technology - satellites, but starting to fail (jewels are debris from an orbital that fell out of orbit). The planet is gradually being terraformed by (bioengineered?) goats. Are the wizards descended from Crew, with some access to tech?

Several of those statements require knowledge of the later books. But none the less true.

[pdurrant]

Originally Posted by CRussel

Several of those statements require knowledge of the later books. But none the less true.

No, several will be confirmed by later books. But it's possible to guess that that's the situation from the first book, read as SF.

[bfisher]

Originally Posted by pdurrant

No, several will be confirmed by later books. But it's possible to guess that that's the situation from the first book, read as SF.

Yes, I have book 2 on my TBR, but some elements are strongly suggested by the text of book 1. Sorry, I was too lazy to quote:

“It must be a different type of goat.” With dust from their scrambling rising around her, Rowan’s mind filled with speculations and calculations. “That might explain a great deal. It might even be one of the reasons the Outskirts keep moving.”

"The Guidestars hovered forever in the sky. They did not fall, but neither did they move. They hung immobile on the celestial equator and seemed to shift only as the traveler below changed position on the world’s surface.
They were neither far suns, nor immeasurably distant. Their height was easily calculable from their apparent displacement when viewed from different locations on the world. Though they were very high indeed, if they had been suns the world would have been aflame from the heat of their proximity."

[CRussel]

I stand corrected. (And having just finished my re-read of the last of the currently available ones, I freely admit to having trouble keeping track of what is disclosed where!)