MobileRead May 2016 Discussion: The Steerswoman (spoilers)

[CRussel]

An interesting point that's easy for me to forget as I am re-reading the series for at least the third time, and probably the fourth. We learn about the universe as Rowan learns. That's part of what makes her discovery of orbital dynamics so interesting. The use of trigonometry and successive approximations to calculate something we all take for granted is part of that gradual discovery process. (Though one wonders why the old weight at the end of a spinning string analogy might not have come along first.)

FWIW, Grey Ram, I strongly suspect that you'd enjoy the second book more. Much is discovered, but there's also more of a self-contained feel to it. And it contains one of my favourite three word phrases. ("RBC" for those who've read it without doing a spoiler for those who haven't.)

[din155]

I really enjoyed the book. Don't get to read too many lead women characters. However I also found it a little weird that wizards could keep the knowledge hidden for so long especially when the steerswomen were always there to search and provide the knowledge freely. Probably the next few books will provide some answers

[Grey Ram]

Originally Posted by CRussel

I strongly suspect that you'd enjoy the second book more. Much is discovered, but there's also more of a self-contained feel to it. And it contains one of my favourite three word phrases. ("RBC" for those who've read it without doing a spoiler for those who haven't.)

Actually, I'm reading the second book right now; yeah, more information about the world and a better read. I think the problem is that here at the book club we are only talking about the first one, and it doesn't fare very well when read standalone.

[Grey Ram]

Originally Posted by RosemaryKirstein

Grey Ram, I think that part of the issue here is that the book is a series, and I'm not spelling out all the details of how everything works in the first volume. Some things will be developed more fully further down the line, in subsequent books, and my plan is to use the opportunities that arise in the natural course of the overall plot to explore or reveal the justifications behind the world-building background and social setup. In fact, the core of the actual story is Rowan herself learning these things.

Just to be clear, I don't want everything spelled out and I certainly can wait until Rowan figures things out instead of knowing them beforehand. Actually I like this approach, and I think it's one of the merits of the plot.

What I would like to know is more of what Rowan already knows, not the *why* (which I will find out in due time), simply the *what*, like:

. This is an interesting world, if the map at the beginning is the known world, well it seems kinda small, and they already know it is round. So for example why can't they go west of the wolf river? Would it be that inconvenient to mention what physical barriers have limited the exploration of the world?.

. There is a mention of a Duke, but otherwise, I have no idea of he social structure. Is it governed by Dukes? some other civil authority? Is it anarchy for the most part? I know it's not the wizards that govern because it is said of The Crags that "its politics depend on the wizard's decisions".

. What is the place of the wizards in the society?, I mean, they keeep to themselves and so on, but what do they do when they are not at war? Do they build things (for whom)? extract natural resources? torture the peasants for their amusement? spend the whole time in their keeps studying?

. Same goes for the steerswomen; I don't think that their whole interaction with the people is to answer trivial questions or the day's news. I see that they are very well respected, althought not exactly revered, but I don't see the source of that respect in their actions.

... and I could go on. Basically, I'm dropped along Rowan and I'm supposed to follow her and understand what she's doing, but I'm an alien from another world! that would still be fine if I were allowed to investigate this world and find about how it is. But I can't, I'm stuck at Rowan's side and the only information I have is what she receives, not even what she already knows unless she comunicates it to someone else.

Originally Posted by RosemaryKirstein

As the saying goes: your mileage may vary. If you can't engage without more explication up front, well, possibly I'm just not the author for you.

I would say that you gave up too soon . Why not recommend the second book, which I am reading now?

As you can see, I don't consider this book unworthy of my time, or otherwise I would not have taken the time to read it and comment; as a matter of fact I find it interesting but at the same time I'm somewhat disappointed by what wasn't there. And one last thing, I still cringe at all that passed from the time Rowan, Will and Bel met the soldiers up to the explosion of the keep (torture? speaking in tongues to maintain secrecy, really?) and I should have liked the book a whole lot better if things have gone differently then.

Originally Posted by RosemaryKirstein

Thanks for giving my book your attention.

I appreciate the time you took for responding, it's the first time I talk to an author

[treadlightly]

Originally Posted by RosemaryKirstein

Also: Why are you assuming the dragons were an accident?

I have only read the first book, and the explanation given was the wizard who normally keeps the dragons in check was sleeping, or on a bender, or whatever. I'm highly suspecting that there is more going on there, but have no further info at the present time. That's why some background for the reasons behind Rowan's bias against the wizards would be good to have.

[DiapDealer]

I just assumed all the secrecy, the mysticism, and the hoading of knowledge for personal gain (for which the Wizards were known) ran counter to the "knowledge and truth for all" philosophy practiced by the Steerswomen. Rowan was biased against magic, in my opinion. Which seemed only natural given her position/role.

[RosemaryKirstein]

Treadlightly: What DiapDealer said.

Originally Posted by DiapDealer

I just assumed all the secrecy, the mysticism, and the hoading of knowledge for personal gain (for which the Wizards were known) ran counter to the "knowledge and truth for all" philosophy practiced by the Steerswomen.

That's it, basically, with references to it showing up throughout the book. Especially in Chapter Nine, at the Archives. There also is a quick little hint in that chapter that at some point in the past some wizard had acted directly against the Steerswomen (that event to be further explored in later books).

And Chapter Nine is also where Hugo concludes that the dragon attack was no accident.

[CRussel]

I never thought the dragon attack could be an accident. Just too convenient, especially after the attack on the road.

[pdurrant]

Originally Posted by CRussel

However, I was not then, nor am I now, an expert on the explosive power of black powder, so can't comment on the technical accuracy.

Note that he doesn't have only explosive in his armoury. At the ship clearing he refers to an explosive that's set off by impact - using one explosive to set off this other explosive.

Originally Posted by Grey Ram

What I would like to know is more of what Rowan already knows, not the *why* (which I will find out in due time), simply the *what*, like:

You will find out about the physical barriers to exploration shortly.
The political system is, I think, as it appears - feudal-ish.
Rowan doesn't know what the Wizards do, that's one of the problems the Steerswomen have with Wizards!
I think Steerswomen are basically walking libraries. But I agree that the reason for the deep respect is not made clear.

As for not finding out everything at once - as with most SF (& fantasy), part of the fun is finding out what the situation is without having a massive 'as everyone knows' infodump at the start!

[BenG]

Originally Posted by Grey Ram

Actually, I'm reading the second book right now; yeah, more information about the world and a better read. I think the problem is that here at the book club we are only talking about the first one, and it doesn't fare very well when read standalone.

I first read them as The Steerswoman's Road which had the first two books in one volume.

[DiapDealer]

Originally Posted by pdurrant

Note that he doesn't have only explosive in his armoury. At the ship clearing he refers to an explosive that's set off by impact - using one explosive to set off this other explosive.

Agreed. There's some rather advanced technology being described (and slowly revealed to the reader) by characters who don't have enough perspective to differentiate it from magic (from satellites to printed circuit boards, and solar panels and such). I think it's a mistake to assume that Willam's "magic" was limited to something as primitive as black powder. I get the distinct impression that his seemingly inherent chemical knowledge (albeit, perhaps, limited to things explosive in nature) is not at all basic.

A question for those who've read all four books (so far) in this series: I typically don't like to start a series until it's finished (or at least reached a very solid and satisfying stopping point). If I read the next three books, am I going to reach such a satisfying jump-off point? Or will I be left completely in the lurch waiting for books as yet unpublished? I'm a very patient waiter, but I just like to know before-hand.

[din155]

Originally Posted by DiapDealer

A question for those who've read all four books (so far) in this series: I typically don't like to start a series until it's finished (or at least reached a very solid and satisfying stopping point). If I read the next three books, Am I going to reach such a satisfying jump-off point? Or will I be left completely in the lurch waiting for books as yet unpublished? I'm a very patient waiter, but I just like to know before-hand.

Thanks DD. I also would like to know that before I start rest of the series.

[Dazrin]

I really enjoyed this (other than the torture and death of the whole keep parts already mentioned) and will be continuing the series at some point.

I did find myself wondering how many of the obvious clues wouldn't have been obvious if I didn't know that this was a science fiction book rather than a fantasy book.

CRussel tried very hard not to spoil things (Thank you!) but just knowing that the book was science fiction rather than fantasy is enough to make you look at the book in a different way. I found myself looking at anything "magic" and asking "what is the SF interpretation of this?" and now I am wondering how much more satisfying some of the reveals would have been if this had been in the free-for-all category and nothing was said about genre.

[CRussel]

Originally Posted by DiapDealer

A question for those who've read all four books (so far) in this series: I typically don't like to start a series until it's finished (or at least reached a very solid and satisfying stopping point). If I read the next three books, am I going to reach such a satisfying jump-off point? Or will I be left completely in the lurch waiting for books as yet unpublished? I'm a very patient waiter, but I just like to know before-hand.

Originally Posted by din155

Thanks DD. I also would like to know that before I start rest of the series.

Hmmm. I haven't read book 4 yet in this round, though I'm about to. My memory is that, like the first 3 books, it ends at a reasonable place, but I was definitely ready for the next and could see what it needed to be. It was not, as some books recently, left at a total cliff-hanger where you felt like the author hit her/his xxx number of pages and simply stopped.

Ms. Kirstein hasn't publicly said when she's going to have the next book ready (at least that I've seen), but she is, finally, actively working on it as her "day job", so I'm hopeful.

Originally Posted by Dazrin

I really enjoyed this (other than the torture and death of the whole keep parts already mentioned) and will be continuing the series at some point.

I did find myself wondering how many of the obvious clues wouldn't have been obvious if I didn't know that this was a science fiction book rather than a fantasy book.

CRussel tried very hard not to spoil things (Thank you!) but just knowing that the book was science fiction rather than fantasy is enough to make you look at the book in a different way. I found myself looking at anything "magic" and asking "what is the SF interpretation of this?" and now I am wondering how much more satisfying some of the reveals would have been if this had been in the free-for-all category and nothing was said about genre.

You're welcome, Dazrin, but I'm convinced you'd have picked up on them no later than the middle of the book. But I couldn't propose it for this category without at least what I did say (and even as it was, Jon got a bit excited.)

But wait until you move forward in the series. There's all sorts of SF things going to happen, only some of which have to do with "magic" and/or "wizards".

[Dazrin]

Originally Posted by CRussel

You're welcome, Dazrin, but I'm convinced you'd have picked up on them no later than the middle of the book. But I couldn't propose it for this category without at least what I did say (and even as it was, Jon got a bit excited.)

I hope I would have! If I hadn't I would have been hitting myself later. And Jon tends to do that.

Originally Posted by CRussel

But wait until you move forward in the series. There's all sorts of SF things going to happen, only some of which have to do with "magic" and/or "wizards".

Part of my frustration is that I decided to look for books that might tie into the June categories a little early (around 75%) thinking that I had enough of it figured out, and one article I read had some details in it that went beyond anything described in this book. That "review" was supposed to be just of this one book but was written by someone who had read the whole series to date, so I don't know if they realized what they were giving away or not. Either way they wrote way too much in their review for just the first book. It is similar to the picture of bricks* that was going around recently, once you have seen it, it is impossible to go back.

* I was going to use Phil Plait's link but he has a spoiler in the URL. He does have links to some other interesting illusions in his post though so I still wanted to include it...

Spoiler:

http://www.slate.com/blogs/bad_astro...t_a_cigar.html