The Vent and Rant Thread

[ApK]

Originally Posted by DMcCunney

Since this is an always on desktop plugged into an outlet, power saving is not a concern

Eco-terrorist! If my lights go out, I'm blaming you.

[badgoodDeb]

Is Windows 10 any easier to use than Windows 8? IE more recognizable to a Windows NT (for example) user?

My neighbor's dead cheap machine might need to be upgraded before the free offer runs out. Since her home internet has been snafued for more than a year, that means I'd have to offer to bring the machine to my place to fix it. AND would have to run a backup first, in case it fails in the middle of the upgrade (as you mention above). Cuz I'm more familiar with Macs than with PCs, and wouldn't be able to trouble-shoot it.

BUT if the end result would be best for her (& me*), I'll do it. Just wondering if I should volunteer to do so ....

*and me: I recognize the desktop on a PC, but have a hard time with the Windows 8 huge-button interface. When I have to trouble shoot her machine, that is. She doesn't even know what a desktop is. Nor a "browser". She knows Office, and email, and thinks that means she knows how to use a computer. Sigh....

[DMcCunney]

Originally Posted by badgoodDeb

Is Windows 10 any easier to use than Windows 8? IE more recognizable to a Windows NT (for example) user?

Depends on what you consider easier. Win10 brings back the Start Menu, but in Yet Another Case of fixing what wasn't broken, it's rather different from the Win7 version.

That's an easy fix - I run the open source Classic Shell, which works fine under Win10 (and worked under 8.1) to restore the Start menu. The default is to look like the Win7 version.

I don't use IE, never have, and strongly recommend others don't. I use Firefox, but Chrome is also a viable option.

Win10 has IE 11, but defaults to a new MS browser called Edge, which does not look and act the same as IE. I won't use it, either.

My neighbor's dead cheap machine might need to be upgraded before the free offer runs out. Since her home internet has been snafued for more than a year, that means I'd have to offer to bring the machine to my place to fix it. AND would have to run a backup first, in case it fails in the middle of the upgrade (as you mention above). Cuz I'm more familiar with Macs than with PCs, and wouldn't be able to trouble-shoot it.

I'd want to investigate why her Internet was snafued before upgrading. A Win10 upgrade is unlikely to magically fix the problem. And what are the specs on the machine? What does it run now? Will it successfully run Win10? (If she previously ran Win8.1, it should. The hardware requirements are basically the same.)

Mine did not fail in the middle of an upgrade. The upgrade itself went fine. My problems started when I was up and running under Win10. Per my earlier message, changing how the desktop handles power fixed the inability to shutdown or restart, and turning off write cache buffer flushing on the SSD I boot from seems to have fixed the application hangs. Right now, all is good.

BUT if the end result would be best for her (& me*), I'll do it. Just wondering if I should volunteer to do so ....

Hard to say. Sounds like you're unpaid tech support, and anything that reduces support issues will be a boon.

*and me: I recognize the desktop on a PC, but have a hard time with the Windows 8 huge-button interface. When I have to trouble shoot her machine, that is. She doesn't even know what a desktop is. Nor a "browser". She knows Office, and email, and thinks that means she knows how to use a computer. Sigh....

The Metro interface is an attempt at a One Size Fits All UI that can be used from a tablet on up. The touch screen stuff is questionable on a desktop unless you have something like an All-In-One machine that incorporates it. I understand what MS was trying to do with Metro, but I don't think a one-size-fits-all UI is really possible. The default Win10 interface is sort of a combo of Start Menu and Metro.

As for your neighbor, just tell her that what she sees on her screen when she boots her machine is her desktop. What she's in when she goes online to surf the Internet is her browser. What's she's in when she's doing email is likely MS Outlook, since that's part of Office. Everything she uses is a program, and isn't the only program that can do those things.
______
Dennis

[ApK]

I didn't realize classic shell worked under 10. It made 8.1 bearable. 10's start menu isn't horrible once you remove all the tiles, but if Classic Shell works without issue, I may go back to that.

[CRussel]

Originally Posted by badgoodDeb

Is Windows 10 any easier to use than Windows 8? IE more recognizable to a Windows NT (for example) user?

My neighbor's dead cheap machine might need to be upgraded before the free offer runs out. Since her home internet has been snafued for more than a year, that means I'd have to offer to bring the machine to my place to fix it. AND would have to run a backup first, in case it fails in the middle of the upgrade (as you mention above). Cuz I'm more familiar with Macs than with PCs, and wouldn't be able to trouble-shoot it.

BUT if the end result would be best for her (& me*), I'll do it. Just wondering if I should volunteer to do so ....

*and me: I recognize the desktop on a PC, but have a hard time with the Windows 8 huge-button interface. When I have to trouble shoot her machine, that is. She doesn't even know what a desktop is. Nor a "browser". She knows Office, and email, and thinks that means she knows how to use a computer. Sigh....

IMHO, and I live with, administer, and write about computers for a living, yes, Windows 10 is way better than Windows 8 and a lot easier to live with. You can easily set it to automatically go directly to the desktop. It has easy logons with PIN or facial recognition, and is just generally a better OS in many ways. Windows 10 is to Windows 8x as Windows 7 was to Windows Vista.

[DMcCunney]

Originally Posted by ApK

I didn't realize classic shell worked under 10. It made 8.1 bearable. 10's start menu isn't horrible once you remove all the tiles, but if Classic Shell works without issue, I may go back to that.

Classic Shell works just fine under Win10.

I didn't mind the tiles in the default Win10 interface. I did mind the alterations to the Start menu.
______
Dennis

[badgoodDeb]

Originally Posted by DMcCunney

Depends on what you consider easier. Win10 brings back the Start Menu, but in Yet Another Case of fixing what wasn't broken, it's rather different from the Win7 version.

That's an easy fix - I run the open source Classic Shell, which works fine under Win10 (and worked under 8.1) to restore the Start menu. The default is to look like the Win7 version.

I don't want to install anything on her machine other than the basics. Oh, and OpenOffice, because she can't afford to buy Office and the initlal trial ran out and she can't understand that ....

Originally Posted by DMcCunney

I don't use IE, never have, and strongly recommend others don't. I use Firefox, but Chrome is also a viable option.

Win10 has IE 11, but defaults to a new MS browser called Edge, which does not look and act the same as IE. I won't use it, either.

Actually, I probably did install Firefox. Cause that's what I'm most familiar with.

Originally Posted by DMcCunney

I'd want to investigate why her Internet was snafued before upgrading. A Win10 upgrade is unlikely to magically fix the problem. And what are the specs on the machine? What does it run now? Will it successfully run Win10? (If she previously ran Win8.1, it should. The hardware requirements are basically the same.)

I'm not expecting this to fix the internet issues. She needs to call her DSL provider, and she hasn't the time and doesn't care enough to do so. She never uses this machine, even though it was new 2 years ago. Now that she needs to look for a better job and submit resumes, she is visiting ME and using my mac and my internet. Because that's easier than getting her own internet to work. I told her to get hers fixed or cancel it to save the money, but I don't think she has even done THAT. Still, she is learning a teensy bit about desktops and browsers over on my Mac, which is good for her!

Originally Posted by DMcCunney

Hard to say. Sounds like you're unpaid tech support, and anything that reduces support issues will be a boon.

Precisely. But she is wont-take-money dog care when I go on vacation, so she saves me a ton. So I put up with it.

She hasn't asked for Windows 10; I'm just wondering if I should inflict her with it, while it is free. She hates Win8 too, so either way, she won't like it overly much.

[badgoodDeb]

Originally Posted by CRussel

IMHO, and I live with, administer, and write about computers for a living, yes, Windows 10 is way better than Windows 8 and a lot easier to live with. You can easily set it to automatically go directly to the desktop. It has easy logons with PIN or facial recognition, and is just generally a better OS in many ways. Windows 10 is to Windows 8x as Windows 7 was to Windows Vista.

Thanks - I appreciate the recommendation here.

[ApK]

Originally Posted by badgoodDeb

She hasn't asked for Windows 10; I'm just wondering if I should inflict her with it, while it is free. She hates Win8 too, so either way, she won't like it overly much.

I say yes, get her the free upgrade.
I'm not sure where MS will be taking things in the future, but it's a risk I'm willing to take.
If the start menu/metro interface is what she likes least about 8.1, then put on Classic Shell as mentioned above, regardless of whether you go to 10 or not.

Honestly, if she's the kind of user you describe, it's unlikely she'll notice a difference in the OS one way or the other. You could probably give her a browser and Open Office on Linux for all it would matter to her.

But on 10, she'll have a longer future of updates and support (from people like you, if not MS.)

Dog sitting for tech support. Yeah, that would work for me.

[DMcCunney]

Originally Posted by badgoodDeb

I don't want to install anything on her machine other than the basics. Oh, and OpenOffice, because she can't afford to buy Office and the initlal trial ran out and she can't understand that ....

The next question is Open Office or Libre Office.

OO was a project of Sun Microsystems. Oracle bought Sun, and OO's future got cloudy. Various folks were unhappy, and created a fork of the Open Office code thy called Libre Office, to be out from under Oracle's control.

Oracle finally got around to transferring Open Office to the Apache Foundation and no longer is involved, but meanwhile the damage was done and there are now two similar products based on the same code but beginning to diverge. Either will do.

Actually, I probably did install Firefox. Cause that's what I'm most familiar with.

So that's what she theoretically used before?

I'm not expecting this to fix the internet issues. She needs to call her DSL provider, and she hasn't the time and doesn't care enough to do so. She never uses this machine, even though it was new 2 years ago. Now that she needs to look for a better job and submit resumes, she is visiting ME and using my mac and my internet. Because that's easier than getting her own internet to work. I told her to get hers fixed or cancel it to save the money, but I don't think she has even done THAT. Still, she is learning a teensy bit about desktops and browsers over on my Mac, which is good for her!

What does she do for a living? If she finds herself needing to use her PC for job related stuff, her hands-off approach may change.

Precisely. But she is wont-take-money dog care when I go on vacation, so she saves me a ton. So I put up with it.

She hasn't asked for Windows 10; I'm just wondering if I should inflict her with it, while it is free. She hates Win8 too, so either way, she won't like it overly much.

She will likely hate Win10 less when she actually has the use the PC, so I think I'd do it.
______
Dennis

[badgoodDeb]

Originally Posted by DMcCunney

So [Firefox is] what she theoretically used before?

Perhaps not; I don't see it in my folder of "stuff I burned to CD for her PC". Her DSL was broken even a year ago. BUT Firefox is what she is using now, on my mac, for job searches. So she is getting a little exposure.

Originally Posted by DMcCunney

What does she do for a living? If she finds herself needing to use her PC for job related stuff, her hands-off approach may change.

"Administrative assistant" or some such, I think. At a banking type institution, where she has rather specific tasks, and no allowed use of the internet otherwise. Which is too bad, as she hadn't learned even basic skills, that might help on some NEXT job.

Originally Posted by DMcCunney

She will likely hate Win10 less when she actually has the use the PC, so I think I'd do it.

Thanks -- the several such recommendations here are exactly what I wanted to know. I'll get started on that project.

Can I download the Win10 package to my MAC and burn to a CD, or do I need internet access during the install? I can get the latter by bringing the PC to my house, but burning a CD at work (much faster internet) would get the process started faster.

edit: The only web source I see requires access FROM the PC, so it knows eligibility. If that's my only choice, that's OK. Just thought I'd ask.

[Blossom]

Don't forget to disable Cortana. She terrorizes my mother who gets so frustrated because Cortana constantly is awaken wrecking havoc on my mother laptop.

I prefer Windows 10 to Windows 8 which I had stability issues with. I got rid of Cortana though.

Sent from my Nexus 7 using Tapatalk

[badgoodDeb]

Originally Posted by Blossom

Don't forget to disable Cortana. She terrorizes my mother who gets so frustrated because Cortana constantly is awaken wrecking havoc on my mother laptop.

I prefer Windows 10 to Windows 8 which I had stability issues with. I got rid of Cortana though.

Sent from my Nexus 7 using Tapatalk

Gracious! Who on earth is Cortana? Is she on Win10 or on 8?

[DMcCunney]

Originally Posted by badgoodDeb

"Administrative assistant" or some such, I think. At a banking type institution, where she has rather specific tasks, and no allowed use of the internet otherwise. Which is too bad, as she hadn't learned even basic skills, that might help on some NEXT job.

I worked for a bank back when. They tend to be fussy about employee use of the Internet.

Can I download the Win10 package to my MAC and burn to a CD, or do I need internet access during the install? I can get the latter by bringing the PC to my house, but burning a CD at work (much faster internet) would get the process started faster.

Yes, you can, but it won't fit in a CD. It needs a DVD. I downloaded the upgrade stuff for an offline install and put it on a USB thumbdrive. It works from there, too.

edit: The only web source I see requires access FROM the PC, so it knows eligibility. If that's my only choice, that's OK. Just thought I'd ask.

As mentioned, you can DL the upgrade package and do it offline. But you probably do have to go online from the machine you want to upgrade to confirm it's eligible. Essentially, you are taking an existing Windows 7/8.1 license and applying it to Win10 instead, so there must be a valid existing license.

And before you upgrade, there will be a boatload of critical security patches that likely never got applied, and you'll need to let them apply first. Expect multiple reboots in the process, because some patches affect things that can't be modified while Windows is up and running. You must reboot after the patches are downloaded, and they'll be installed when you reboot before Windows fully loads.
______
Dennis

[DMcCunney]

Originally Posted by badgoodDeb

Gracious! Who on earth is Cortana? Is she on Win10 or on 8?

Cortana is an attempt at an intelligent virtual assistant. See http://windows.microsoft.com/en-us/w...hat-is-cortana
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Dennis