The Vent and Rant Thread

[DMcCunney]

Originally Posted by CRussel

Too true!

I have reached the point elsewhere of saying "If you can't be bothered to trim your replies, I can't be bothered to read them."

I won't even get started on top posting...
______
Dennis

[ApK]

Originally Posted by DMcCunney

Now if only everybody would delete the quoted text they aren't commenting on...

Originally Posted by CRussel

Too true!

Yeah, let's get that particular vent and rant over with.

I don't want to name names.

Cindy.

OK, I feel better now.

What's "top posting?"

[CRussel]

Top posting is posting method that some people seem to think is suitable and appropriate. In a forum, it makes no sense. In an email thread, it makes perfect sense. On the Baen Bar, it is the preferred and requested form of posting, primarily because the Bar is read in three different forms: forum, email and NNTP. And because the software doesn't do any form of auto-trimming you end up with every post in the thread automatically quoted. (See earlier rant about trimming...)

Originally Posted by ApK

What's "top posting?"

[WT Sharpe]

Originally Posted by DMcCunney

Now if only everybody would delete the quoted text they aren't commenting on...
______
Dennis

I usually use ellipses for that purpose, although I've seen some people, and sometimes do myself, use "<snip>" to indicate omitted portions of a quote.

[WT Sharpe]

Originally Posted by DMcCunney

...I won't even get started on top posting...
______
Dennis

That's one of Jon's big beefs. I sometimes use it if the occasion warrants, but otherwise use it only in PMs.

[wodin]

Originally Posted by ApK

... What's "top posting?"

Originally Posted by CRussel

Top posting is posting method that some people seem to think is suitable and appropriate...

Which doesn't answer the question.

[badgoodDeb]

Originally Posted by CRussel

Top posting is posting method that some people seem to think is suitable and appropriate. In a forum, it makes no sense. In an email thread, it makes perfect sense. On the Baen Bar, it is the preferred and requested form of posting, primarily because the Bar is read in three different forms: forum, email and NNTP. And because the software doesn't do any form of auto-trimming you end up with every post in the thread automatically quoted. (See earlier rant about trimming...)

Originally Posted by ApK

What's "top posting?"

AND in case it wasn't obvious, top posting is what he just did. Putting the new post ABOVE the part he was quoting. Some people love it, some people hate it.

Re multi-quoting: after clicking the little teeny box beside the quote box, you could also click the NEW REPLY button, instead of the QUOTE button, as your last choice. In case you didn't realize you were done, and ready to start writing. Just sayin .....

[DMcCunney]

Originally Posted by ApK

What's "top posting?"

Evil spawn of Satan foisted on all by Microsoft Outlook, along with HTML email formatting, because both are Outlook defaults. Your reply is added to the top of the message you're replying to, and you must scroll through a potentially long message to get context when you read top posted replies.

I dislike HTML email in general. I know folks who read mail through Unix shell accounts and must open a browser to view HTML formatted mail. If you can't make your case in plain text, HTML won't help you.

I went through some trouble at a former employer to make Outlook default to plain text when I replied. I then discovered that while Outlook was doing so, Exchange Server on the back end was undoing my good work, and replies to a tech list that mandated plain text were bouncing because of stuff Exchange was adding. It took the Exchange admin a bit to discover where to neuter that bad habit.

There are occasions where HTML mail can be useful, but they are exceptions, not the rule.
______
Dennis

[orlok]

Originally Posted by badgoodDeb

Re multi-quoting: after clicking the little teeny box beside the quote box, you could also click the NEW REPLY button, instead of the QUOTE button, as your last choice. In case you didn't realize you were done, and ready to start writing. Just sayin .....

Ooooh, thanks! Didn't know that so I usually end up having to Quote a post I'm not replying to and then delete it from the reply manually.

[Cinisajoy]

Originally Posted by ApK

Yeah, let's get that particular vent and rant over with.

I don't want to name names.

Cindy.

OK, I feel better now.

You hollered?
Oh and this post makes no sense without quoting the quotes you quoted.

[ApK]

Originally Posted by wodin

Which doesn't answer the question.

Originally Posted by badgoodDeb

AND in case it wasn't obvious, top posting is what he just did. Putting the new post ABOVE the part he was quoting. Some people love it, some people hate it.

Yeah, I saw what he did there....but I must admit, I had to think about it for a second.

[ApK]

Originally Posted by Cinisajoy

You hollered?
Oh and this post makes no sense without quoting the quotes you quoted.

...she said. :-) (meta-quote!)

[DMcCunney]

Originally Posted by CRussel

Top posting is posting method that some people seem to think is suitable and appropriate. In a forum, it makes no sense. In an email thread, it makes perfect sense.

Oh, is that a religious argument.

Personally, I don't think it makes sense in email, either.

But I began corresponding electronically on BBSes when the standard way to connect to something was a dial up modem, and you were encouraged to trim posts to reduce the amount to be downloaded, and to reduce the costs for sysops in BBS networks who passed message traffic around via dial up at long distance rates.

With pervasive broadband and message transport via TCPIP the norm, network bandwidth is less of a concern.

User bandwidth still is...

On the Baen Bar, it is the preferred and requested form of posting, primarily because the Bar is read in three different forms: forum, email and NNTP. And because the software doesn't do any form of auto-trimming you end up with every post in the thread automatically quoted. (See earlier rant about trimming...)

I used to read Baen's Bar via NNTP. I stopped when the system hosting the NNTP form was having issues unlikely to be fixed because the guy who ran the system was having issues. I haven't looked in in a while. Does NNTP work now?
______
Dennis

[CRussel]

Originally Posted by DMcCunney

Oh, is that a religious argument.

Personally, I don't think it makes sense in email, either.

Well, I'm NOT going down that particular rabbit hole. But if you live in Outlook (and I do), it makes a lot of sense. But YMMV.

Originally Posted by DMcCunney

User bandwidth still is...

AMEN.

Originally Posted by DMcCunney

I used to read Baen's Bar via NNTP. I stopped when the system hosting the NNTP form was having issues unlikely to be fixed because the guy who ran the system was having issues. I haven't looked in in a while. Does NNTP work now?

Yes, it does. They have completely new software, which isn't my favourite, but it's specifically chosen because it supports NNTP, email, and forum. Many old barflies are still NNTP only, others are email only (including Toni, the managing editor, last I heard.)

Overall participation is down substantially from what it used to be, I'm told. I didn't read it in Albert's day, joined when I got my first Kindle.

[DMcCunney]

Originally Posted by CRussel

Well, I'm NOT going down that particular rabbit hole. But if you live in Outlook (and I do), it makes a lot of sense. But YMMV.

Back when I did live in Outlook, it made guarded sense at employers, because it was The Way Things Were Done. Outside that context, the equation changed.

These days I use Gmail as my primary email account, my mail lives on Google's servers, I read it in my browser, and while I have Outlook, I haven't actually used it in years. This makes me happy.

Yes, it does. They have completely new software, which isn't my favourite, but it's specifically chosen because it supports NNTP, email, and forum. Many old barflies are still NNTP only, others are email only (including Toni, the managing editor, last I heard.)

I recall the shift to new software. It at least works, for suitable values of the term. Given the need to support web forum, email, and NNTP, the wonder is that anything does.

Overall participation is down substantially from what it used to be, I'm told. I didn't read it in Albert's day, joined when I got my first Kindle.

I read it back when Albert was still the principal technology driver at Baen.

How much of the participation being down relates to exactly how folks participate would be an interesting question.
______
Dennis