Do Amazon and the Publishers want to Kill Digital Sales ?

[eschwartz]

"Less value" is subjective.

Many people feel ebooks provide more value. After all, they can be searched, they are much more durable, you can take bookmarks or notes and delete them without defacing the text...

[fjtorres]

Originally Posted by DiapDealer

But even so, profit margins will play no part in that. Profit margins will only play a major part in tradpub ebook pricing when they become too narrow, and not before.

So far, profit margins only seem to impact staffing.
As the VANITY FAIR article said, when profits fall, "some guy from Germany" shows up dishing out pink slips.

http://www.amazon.com/Vanity-Fairs-H.../dp/B005LEWYYU

[whismerhill]

Originally Posted by eschwartz

"Less value" is subjective.

Many people feel ebooks provide more value. After all, they can be searched, they are much more durable, you can take bookmarks or notes and delete them without defacing the text...

I respectfully disagree with that opinion
As what you're saying is provided by the ereader device which you also bought & not the ebook itself

therefore the added value to the ebook you speak off, comes from the device used to read it. if the device didn't have a firmware allowing searches, bookmarks & notes, you'd be stuck with a simple book.

[DiapDealer]

Originally Posted by fjtorres

So far, profit margins only seem to impact staffing.
As the VANITY FAIR article said, when profits fall, "some guy from Germany" shows up dishing out pink slips.

http://www.amazon.com/Vanity-Fairs-H.../dp/B005LEWYYU

I'm referring, of course, to the "extra" profits made on ebooks, rather than a publisher's total profit margin.

[DiapDealer]

Originally Posted by whismerhill

I respectfully disagree with that opinion
As what you're saying is provided by the ereader device which you also bought & not the ebook itself

therefore the added value to the ebook you speak off, comes from the device used to read it. if the device didn't have a firmware allowing searches, bookmarks & notes, you'd be stuck with a simple book.

Nope. The ebook itself, is more valuable to me than the pbook. Period. The device is not responsible for all the added value.

The device isn't what allows me to back up copies that will last forever. The device isn't what allows me to edit an ebook and change the formatting in whatever manner I see fit.

The device is a sunken cost. I can't unbuy it. So given that I have a device that I already own: I'm willing to pay the same or a little bit more for the ebook than the pbook, because I don't want the pbook. At. All. The ebook is my preference which makes it inherently more valuable to me. I don't care what something I don't want costs compared to something that I do.

[eschwartz]

Originally Posted by whismerhill

I respectfully disagree with that opinion
As what you're saying is provided by the ereader device which you also bought & not the ebook itself

therefore the added value to the ebook you speak off, comes from the device used to read it. if the device didn't have a firmware allowing searches, bookmarks & notes, you'd be stuck with a simple book.

No, it is an intrinsic property of the ebook.
On account of, using an electronic text format fundamentally enables those features.

Also, every dedicated ereader has those features.
Perhaps there are apps that don't (in fact ISTR KOReader does not support notes), but in that case the user has specifically chosen to sideload their books into that app, so, whatever.

[4691mls]

Originally Posted by Ravensknight

Yes. Amazon wants to destroy all digital transactions. They feel guilty about making so much money that this is their only recourse...

[whismerhill]

Originally Posted by eschwartz

No, it is an intrinsic property of the ebook.
On account of, using an electronic text format fundamentally enables those features.

it is, but the feature is provided at the device level. the device actually process the action required. the book only acts as the data source.

Originally Posted by eschwartz

Also, every dedicated ereader has those features.

irrelevant to who provides the feature.

So yeah, no need to go in circles & debate this. It's going to be a completely circular debate.
At least now I understand that if anything the price for ebooks' prices are gonna go up since people like you find it adds more value.

Personally I seldom use notes, bookmarks & searches, probably because my kindle 2 is a bit cumbersome to use those features, either way I just read. About the only thing I need is the "last page read" feature, and my wife does custom page markers for me and my pbooks

[whismerhill]

Originally Posted by DiapDealer

The device isn't what allows me to back up copies that will last forever.

My mistake forgot to escape this argument from my initial quote.

Originally Posted by DiapDealer

The device isn't what allows me to edit an ebook and change the formatting in whatever manner I see fit.

hu ... I disagree ???
I'm not exactly sure of what you're talking about, but the ability to change the display of text on the fly is provided by my kindle's firmware....

Originally Posted by DiapDealer

The device is a sunken cost. I can't unbuy it. So given that I have a device that I already own: I'm willing to pay the same or a little bit more for the ebook than the pbook, because I don't want the pbook. At. All. The ebook is my preference which makes it inherently more valuable to me. I don't care what something I don't want costs compared to something that I do.

Do you realize how messed up that opinion is ?
Basically you're claiming your right to be completely abused & ripped off by companies with abusive ebook prices, just because you bought the device so hey... now you have it, you NEED to make use of it ???

I'm sorry I don't want to come off as rude or anything, also not trying to start a flame war. I'm just like... completely destabilized by your arguments ...

[darryl]

Originally Posted by whismerhill

it is, but the feature is provided at the device level. the device actually process the action required. the book only acts as the data source.


irrelevant to who provides the feature.

So yeah, no need to go in circles & debate this. It's going to be a completely circular debate.
At least now I understand that if anything the price for ebooks' prices are gonna go up since people like you find it adds more value.

Personally I seldom use notes, bookmarks & searches, probably because my kindle 2 is a bit cumbersome to use those features, either way I just read. About the only thing I need is the "last page read" feature, and my wife does custom page markers for me and my pbooks

The distinction between whether a feature is provided by the device or by the ebook itself is artificial and irrelevant. What is relevant are the features available to the reader, not how or where in the chain they are provided. If you could not read, you could not enjoy the benefits or either pbooks or ebooks. Would you then say that the benefits of pbooks are not features of the books themselves but of your education?

Perceptions of value are subjective. There is no objective measure to say one perception of value is better than any other. My prediction, and it is only my opinion, is that prices of traditionally published ebooks will come down. Prices of some Indie/Self-Published books may also rise. It does not matter who sets the price but traditional publishers realise that their books must compete lest they continue to haemorrhage market share.

[DiapDealer]

Originally Posted by whismerhill

I'm sorry I don't want to come off as rude or anything

Too late.
And tone down the language. This is a family friendly forum.

[pdurrant]

Originally Posted by Scarpad

I mean I love Ebooks, I love my Readers. But I can preorder the Paperback version of my Latest Star Trek Novel in paperback for $5.92 plus Free shipping, or I can preorder the Kindle version for $6.99. Both have a RSP of $7.99. I'm left scratching my head. Should'nt it be the other way around ? I mean it costs them nothing to push it to my kindle. It makes no sense

It's the way it is because Amazon buy the paper books from the publisher at a discount (for paperbacks that's 55% or more) on the retail price, and are free to sell them on at whatever price they wish. For the Kindle books, their agreement with the publisher may mean that the publisher gets to set the retail price, and Amazon just get a fixed percentage (often 30%) of that. ("Agency pricing" - Amazon is acting as an agent for the publisher, rather than as an independent retailer).

And yes, it makes no sense. The publishers give a bigger discount on paperbacks, yet also have to pay the print/store/ship costs for paperbacks. It's crazy.

[pdurrant]

Originally Posted by MGlitch

I'd also point out piracy of ebooks, with or without DRM, is likely a factor in the declining sales.

[snip]

So how would publishers better adapt to ebooks?

Publishers would adapt better to ebooks by dropping DRM entirely.

As for piracy and declining sales — there is no decline in ebook sales. Any figures showing a decline in ebook sales only cover a fraction of the ebook market. Ebook sales are growing.

[darryl]

Originally Posted by whismerhill

Do you realize how messed up that opinion is ?
Basically you're claiming your right to be completely abused & ripped off by companies with abusive ebook prices, just because you bought the device so hey... now you have it, you NEED to make use of it ???

I'm sorry I don't want to come off as rude or anything, also not trying to start a flame war. I'm just like... completely destabilized by your arguments ...

This is your opinion. The point you make is one I was accused of implying in one of my posts. In fact I had not intended to make the point at all but the way I had expressed my post did leave that implication open. When it was pointed out to me I clarified what I had intended.

There were two reasons why I had not even thought to make that particular point. The first is that people's perceptions of value differ, and there is no reason why my perception of value is the correct one or any better than any other persons perception of value, other than to me. If someone perceives value at a particular price and pays that price, it does not follow that they were either naive or ripped-off. They simply acted rationally based on their own perception of value. That I do not share that perception of value is neither here nor there.

The second reason I did not intend to make this particular point is that it is both arrogant and condescending, and neither is justified.

Perhaps you should give this one some further consideration.

[kennyc]

"It's dead Jim," Bones.