Do Amazon and the Publishers want to Kill Digital Sales ?

[darryl]

Originally Posted by SteveEisenberg

How is one to measure whether they have adapted well?

In my view, the most important measure is artistic. Are the books they are publishing as good as the ones in the past? I say yes. Of course, judgments here are utterly subjective. I do realize that the number of misprints in a book is objective, but it is utterly subjective how significant that is compared to quality of research and writing.

I hate to disagree with you Steve. But artistic quality as a measure? Firstly, it is about as subjective as you can get. Secondly, if it could be used as a useful indicator it would be as to whether digital had been good, bad or indifferent for artistic quality.

I won't attempt here to discuss what would be good measures of how well publishers have adapted. Except to say that Amazon's creation and domination of a now extensive competing Self-Published/Indie sector does not point towards a good adaptation.

[eschwartz]

Originally Posted by SteveEisenberg

How is one to measure whether they have adapted well?

I can think of three ways:

1. Tapping into a parallel universe to see how things could have and did go differently. The optimum solution, if you (rhet.) happen to be G-d or some other entity with the power to perform the flat-out impossible.
2. Glancing in the general direction of their (in)competence and deriving a "conclusion". This does depend on you (rhet.) having a modicum of common sense.
3. Making an inaccurate comparison to the closest thing that bears a surface resemblance to them. Predictably enough, this is the option you chose.

In my view, the most important measure is artistic. Are the books they are publishing as good as the ones in the past? I say yes. Of course, judgments here are utterly subjective. I do realize that the number of misprints in a book is objective, but it is utterly subjective how significant that is compared to quality of research and writing.

Did you legitimately believe by "adapting" I was referring to their ability to upload a properly proofed ebook created from the same electronic source as the pbook??? I see we have bigger problems than I first thought.

Given that you seem to have started off in Wonderland, I am not going to touch this with a standardized ten-foot barge pole.

The less important, to me, measure is financial results. Book publishing is doing tremendously better there than what I think is the clearest point of comparison, newspapers. For example:

Penguin Random House Posts Record Profit for 2015

Why is it that book publishers are doing better than newspaper publishers? Maybe it's because of what Scarpad is complaining about!

And here we go with the inaccurate comparisons.

For the record, just because newspaper publishers are adapting even worse than book publishers, does not mean book publishers are adapting well.

Also, nice clickbait article headline there, pity the actual article itself has to spoil everything by talking about the whole "merger" thing -- and in fact specifically crediting that as the sole reason why PRH alone managed to come out ahead.

I would like to further note that your own article is consistent with the commonly held wisdom that book publishers are seeing declining ebook sales (and surely the One True Measure of successful adaptation is whether they succeed or fail at penetrating the new market -- ebooks).

[MGlitch]

Aside from pricing and DRM what other factors are within the publishers ability to control which would affect ebook sales.

I'd also point out piracy of ebooks, with or without DRM, is likely a factor in the declining sales.

The costs of ebook versus pbook have been debated before and while ultimately pbooks are more expensive the difference is less than what many tend to think. Up until printing and shipping the costs are, essentially identical. Thanks to bulk rates printing costs are kept lower than what the general public would spend. And shipping costs are often offloaded to whatever seller is procuring the books for sale.

So how would publishers better adapt to ebooks?

[Mickyzip]

The amount of people I know who are not buying eBooks anymore is unsurprising given the present trend in splitting books into a series. With a PBook you get what you see!

[Phogg]

Originally Posted by MGlitch

Aside from pricing and DRM what other factors are within the publishers ability to control which would affect ebook sales.

I'd also point out piracy of ebooks, with or without DRM, is likely a factor in the declining sales.

The costs of ebook versus pbook have been debated before and while ultimately pbooks are more expensive the difference is less than what many tend to think. Up until printing and shipping the costs are, essentially identical. Thanks to bulk rates printing costs are kept lower than what the general public would spend. And shipping costs are often offloaded to whatever seller is procuring the books for sale.

So how would publishers better adapt to ebooks?

Ebook sales overall are still growing.
Not shrinking.
The independent pie is advancing, and it is partially at the expense of the publishing house pie.

I am not sure that the publishing houses have much to offer.

They could offer a better royalty split, and cease leaving people's back lists out of print. That ccould help.

They might quit shooting themselves in the stomach by treating editors and interns better. As it is, they are training some of the freelance editors who indie authors hire. Not the brightest move. At some point treating employees as disposable turns disastrous. All non competitive employment clauses which are not tightly defined are unenforceable. They might want to plug that wound before they bleed out. Not that I will miss them.

[Ravensknight]

Originally Posted by Scarpad

Does Amazon and the Publishers want to Kill Digital Sales ?

Yes. Amazon wants to destroy all digital transactions. They feel guilty about making so much money that this is their only recourse...

[Tarana]

Originally Posted by DrNefario

It's really helped me cut down on my spending.

Me too. There are certain books (mostly non-fiction) that never come down in price more than $1 or 2 and I buy those when I need them, but I've learned to simply add it to my wishlist and maybe someday the price will come down. If not, I have many other books I've purchased that I haven't read yet. I'll live.

It's kindof like paperbacks. In the 'old' days, the hardcover would come out and then 3 or 4 years later, the paperback would come out. I never bought the hardcover. I just learned to wait. I noticed for some of my authors, the hardcover and the ebook come out at the same price and a couple of years later, the ebook will be discounted. Don't know how that will work in the new model, but we'll just have to see. Some would say "get it at the library" but my library, although it has a large collection of ebooks/audiobooks, tends not to get science fiction.

[fjtorres]

Originally Posted by Phogg

Ebook sales overall are still growing.
Not shrinking.
The independent pie is advancing, and it is partially at the expense of the publishing house pie.

I am not sure that the publishing houses have much to offer.

Phillip Pullman seems to agree:

http://www.thebookseller.com/news/pu...ir-role-326121

They key sticking point on the author side isn't just the services they "offer" or how they go about delivering (or failing to deliver) them but rather the price they demand for their "nurturing".

Even tradpub bound authors are starting to challenge the balance between the value of trapub services and its added value.

Pullman sounds like he's giving them one last chance to reform before recommending going Indie. They ought to listen to him.

(Probably won't. There is still no shortage of dreamers looking for validation by contract, including a fair amount of good writers.)

[darryl]

Still Amazon first, Daylight Second, and likely to stay that way.

[whismerhill]

Originally Posted by MGlitch

Aside from pricing and DRM what other factors are within the publishers ability to control which would affect ebook sales.

I'd also point out piracy of ebooks, with or without DRM, is likely a factor in the declining sales.

Bold claim that remains to be proven!
I would like to remind everyone that before, ebooks piracy even existed, there was printed book sharing which was always huge in my environment & completely legal + libraries.
Anyway I don't really want to start a debate on this, I don't have numbers either so I'm just giving out my opinion.

Originally Posted by MGlitch

The costs of ebook versus pbook have been debated before and while ultimately pbooks are more expensive the difference is less than what many tend to think. Up until printing and shipping the costs are, essentially identical. Thanks to bulk rates printing costs are kept lower than what the general public would spend. And shipping costs are often offloaded to whatever seller is procuring the books for sale.

So how would publishers better adapt to ebooks?

Shipping costs are offloaded to the seller ?? how is that important ????
I mean the problem we have in the shop is the FINAL price of both products, ebook or pbook who cares which business pays for the shipping costs ?

Whats-more whoever pays for the shipping costs, those are not to be shrugged off, the weight of paper is huge, so transport actually cost a lot
also don't forget that all parties involved actually get a cut, and don't forget storage & their costs, in case of unsold copies

In the gaming industry, Brad Wardell (Stardock) once published results on a game saying that he approximately sold 10 times less copies of a particular game, online compared to retail, yet he gained as much money in his company pocket from both . Do the math ...
Sure the advantage he has is that he sold the games online with his own online shop so he gets one less intermediary that gets a cut
but still I think it gives something to think about.

When a publisher sells a book online, there's only 1 intermediary to deal with between the publisher to the consumer, at the very least twice that number for printed books.
To conclude, in my humble opinion, it is a given that the publisher gets more money out of an ebook sale than a pbook sale.

[DiapDealer]

Originally Posted by whismerhill

To conclude, in my humble opinion, it is a given that the publisher gets more money out of an ebook sale than a pbook sale.

Which in turn, in my humble opinion, has very little to do with what an ebook should get sold for. Profit margins are certainly relevant to pricing strategies, but they've never been nearly as important as "what the market will bear." Clearly, a lot of consumers have not yet bought into the idea that ebooks should be drastically cheaper than their physical counterparts--else they already would be (regardless of who's setting the price).

[darryl]

Originally Posted by DiapDealer

Clearly, a lot of consumers have not yet bought into the idea that ebooks should be drastically cheaper than their physical counterparts--else they already would be (regardless of who's setting the price).

But of course they already are, except for traditionally published ebooks.

Having said that, I don't disagree that there are still many consumers who are prepared to pay the higher prices. As I have said in other posts, people's perceptions of value are different. I do, however, expect to see lower prices for traditionally published ebooks as time passes.

[DiapDealer]

Originally Posted by darryl

I do, however, expect to see lower prices for traditionally published ebooks as time passes.

Quite possible. A slow market adjustment downward could happen with tradpub books (though I doubt it would be very marked, if at all). But even so, profit margins will play no part in that. Profit margins will only play a major part in tradpub ebook pricing when they become too narrow, and not before.

[darryl]

Originally Posted by DiapDealer

Quite possible. A slow market adjustment downward could happen with tradpub books (though I doubt it would be very marked, if at all). But even so, profit margins will play no part in that. Profit margins will only play a major part in tradpub ebook pricing when they become too narrow, and not before.

I don't disagree with what you say about the role of the profit margin in pricing. What I think will drive prices down is simple supply and demand. A huge increase in supply not matched by a correspondingly huge increase in demand. A so-called buyer's market.

[whismerhill]

Originally Posted by DiapDealer

Which in turn, in my humble opinion, has very little to do with what an ebook should get sold for. Profit margins are certainly relevant to pricing strategies, but they've never been nearly as important as "what the market will bear." Clearly, a lot of consumers have not yet bought into the idea that ebooks should be drastically cheaper than their physical counterparts--else they already would be (regardless of who's setting the price).

which is true & a shame

particularly since an ebook has indeed less intrinsic value than a pbook :
***a pbook can be easily sold back for at least 75% it's original price if kept in good conditions & sold back quickly after being read
Whereas an ebook is yours end of story, no reselling.
***a pbook can easily be shared with lots of friends. Heck in some communities people just pass books from one person to another.
Whereas an ebook well .... even if it's not DRM protected I don't think you can copy it to someone else ereader legally. (unless the ebook is completely free to begin with, which is not what we're talking about)


So it all comes down to paying the same or more for less value.

The gaming industry has the same problem (physical copies often cheaper than digital copies). Though they kind of work around it with frequent seasonal huge sales.
I hope to see the same in ebook but I'm not very confident in this happening.