Sick of Amazon Kindle books without Page Numbers...

[HarryT]

Originally Posted by eschwartz

How is it the Kindle which does "make believe" page numbers "when they bother to do them at all"?
The Kindle only does page numbers when an APNX exists -- which is translated from an NCX PageList or Adobe Page-map.

If, however, you sideload your Kindle books using Calibre, Calibre does indeed generate fake numbers for you using essentially the same method that ADE uses (ie based on character count).

[eschwartz]

Originally Posted by HarryT

If, however, you sideload your Kindle books using Calibre, Calibre does indeed generate fake numbers for you using essentially the same method that ADE uses (ie based on character count).

And I can open the book for editing and insert a PageList or Page-map with fake numbers, too. It is hardly the Kindle's fault for being tricked by calibre into thinking there are publisher-curated page numbers.
As I have never cared about fake page numbers, I've never tried finding out whether there is a similar tool which can generate fake page numbers for an EPUB -- but no doubt there is one.

What is your point?

[jackie_w]

Originally Posted by eschwartz

As I have never cared about fake page numbers, I've never tried finding out whether there is a similar tool which can generate fake page numbers for an EPUB -- but no doubt there is one.

What is your point?

There's no need to generate fake page numbers for epubs being rendered by ADE-based reading apps (Kobo, Sony, Nook???, some Android) as ADE does it automatically on the reading device. No user intervention required, even when there is no publisher-inserted page-map.

I must admit I find the ADE page numbers quite useful because they are exactly the same on my Kobo einks and Android devices. I swap between them frequently and it's easy to find my place. In the absence of a Whispersync-like facility, it does the trick fairly well.

I also like to have the exact same page count available in calibre (via Count Pages plugin) for quick and dirty assessment of short/medium/long books.

[HarryT]

Originally Posted by eschwartz

And I can open the book for editing and insert a PageList or Page-map with fake numbers, too. It is hardly the Kindle's fault for being tricked by calibre into thinking there are publisher-curated page numbers.
As I have never cared about fake page numbers, I've never tried finding out whether there is a similar tool which can generate fake page numbers for an EPUB -- but no doubt there is one.

What is your point?

I wasn't disagreeing with you; I was just elaborating on your comment that "The Kindle only does page numbers when an APNX exists -- which is translated from an NCX PageList or Adobe Page-map". There are other methods of generating the APNX file.

[eschwartz]

Originally Posted by jackie_w

There's no need to generate fake page numbers for epubs being rendered by ADE-based reading apps (Kobo, Sony, Nook???, some Android) as ADE does it automatically on the reading device. No user intervention required, even when there is no publisher-inserted page-map.

I must admit I find the ADE page numbers quite useful because they are exactly the same on my Kobo einks and Android devices. I swap between them frequently and it's easy to find my place. In the absence of a Whispersync-like facility, it does the trick fairly well.

I also like to have the exact same page count available in calibre (via Count Pages plugin) for quick and dirty assessment of short/medium/long books.

Well, generating fake page numbers can be quite useful in the event that you want to choose the algorithm used, or manually set the number of pages.

Although I guess I could hear that EPUB is a less interesting target for those reasons -- not that I'd know anyway, I already said I don't care about fake page numbers.

[Tarana]

I primarily read novels, so page numbers are not an issue. However, if you are a student or reading stuff that refers to other sections of the book or using an index, you are up a river without a paddle. General cookbooks are also a nightmare without page numbers.

[shalym]

Originally Posted by Tarana

However, if you are a student or reading stuff that refers to other sections of the book or using an index, you are up a river without a paddle. General cookbooks are also a nightmare without page numbers.

This is only true if the ebook is just an exact copy of the print book. If the ebook is formatted properly, then all references to other parts of the book, as well as the index will link back to the relevant parts of the book.

It's not a drawback of the format, it's laziness on the part of the author/publisher. Done properly, indexes and reference points are actually easier to use in an ebook.

Shari

[Cinisajoy]

Originally Posted by Tarana

I primarily read novels, so page numbers are not an issue. However, if you are a student or reading stuff that refers to other sections of the book or using an index, you are up a river without a paddle. General cookbooks are also a nightmare without page numbers.

Car owners manual is another that needs page numbers.

[shalym]

Originally Posted by Cinisajoy

Car owners manual is another that needs page numbers.

Again, only if the ebook is an exact copy of the print version.

Shari

[HarryT]

Originally Posted by Tarana

I primarily read novels, so page numbers are not an issue. However, if you are a student or reading stuff that refers to other sections of the book or using an index, you are up a river without a paddle.

Why? An index, or references to other parts of the book, can entirely satisfactorily be done using hyperlinks.

[HarryT]

Originally Posted by Cinisajoy

Car owners manual is another that needs page numbers.

Why does it need page numbers?

[Cinisajoy]

Originally Posted by HarryT

Why does it need page numbers?

Because the people that put them together do not bother with making a workable TOC or index on the ebook so one needs to know where to scroll to.
It isn't like the book is 20 pages. Heck there were 20 pages just on how to install a child's car seat.
The darn thing is 900+ pages. It took almost 2 weeks to get in the paper copy.

[HarryT]

Originally Posted by Cinisajoy

Because the people that put them together do not bother with making a workable TOC or index on the ebook so one needs to know where to scroll to.

That indicates that the ebook has been poorly made, not that car owner's manuals inherently require page numbers. My car (a Mini) has an electronic owner's manual, displayed on its central display console, which is entirely hyperlinked.

[Cinisajoy]

Originally Posted by HarryT

That indicates that the ebook has been poorly made, not that car owner's manuals inherently require page numbers. My car (a Mini) has an electronic owner's manual, displayed on its central display console, which is entirely hyperlinked.

That is totally cool. Our Ram does not have that capability.
Poorly made is an understatement.
I should have said "General Motors Owner's Manuals need page numbers".
At least I think General Motors does Chrysler, Dodge and Ram.

[Hitch]

Originally Posted by shalym

This is only true if the ebook is just an exact copy of the print book. If the ebook is formatted properly, then all references to other parts of the book, as well as the index will link back to the relevant parts of the book.

It's not a drawback of the format, it's laziness on the part of the author/publisher. Done properly, indexes and reference points are actually easier to use in an ebook.

Shari

Shari:

Out of curiosity, what do you deem as "done properly?"

Hitch