HTML TOC listed in .ncx?

[brahms]

Many thanks for the advice. I've gone with the ToC in a smaller font size. I really don't want any Amazon problems when I've got plenty else to think about.

[JSWolf]

I downloaded an eBook from Overdrive Leonard: My Fifty-Year Friendship with a Remarkable Man by William Shatner and the HTML ToC is the second to last page. After the title page the third page is a smaller HTML ToC. When I looked inside at Amazon, it seems Amazon is allowing thi eBook to do this.

So, why is it that Amazon has such double standards? The HTML ToC cannot bee in the back and embedded fonts get stripped (in most cases) unless you are a publisher and not a self-published author. This is just plain stupid (IMHO) and as I said before, Amazon is being stupid.

[Hitch]

Originally Posted by JSWolf

I downloaded an eBook from Overdrive Leonard: My Fifty-Year Friendship with a Remarkable Man by William Shatner and the HTML ToC is the second to last page. After the title page the third page is a smaller HTML ToC. When I looked inside at Amazon, it seems Amazon is allowing thi eBook to do this.

So, why is it that Amazon has such double standards? The HTML ToC cannot bee in the back and embedded fonts get stripped (in most cases) unless you are a publisher and not a self-published author. This is just plain stupid (IMHO) and as I said before, Amazon is being stupid.

Friends, Countrymen, Chilluns: (Gosh, there I go with "patois" again)

You should all pay attention, asap, (those of you publishing, those of you bookmaking, at least), to this:

https://davidgaughran.wordpress.com/...-hits-authors/

Hitch

[brahms]

Sounds a very plausible explanation. Thanks for the link.

[Hitch]

Originally Posted by brahms

Sounds a very plausible explanation. Thanks for the link.

Any time.

Hitch

[brahms]

Well I'll be blowed. How about this:

Just got a second mail from KDP. I'd asked them if we had to have an html toc if we had an ncx. Answer = no.

<<
Hello,

Thank your for contacting KDP Support. I hope this email finds you well.

If you already have an NCX Table of Contents, is not necessary to include or have an HTML Table of Contents.

As long as your book has a Table of Contents, it doesn't matter the format of it. We just ask our authors and publishers to include a Table of Content on their books for best customer experience.

I hope this helps. Thanks for using Amazon KDP. I hope you have a nice day ahead.

Regards,
>>>

[Hitch]

Originally Posted by brahms

Well I'll be blowed. How about this:

Just got a second mail from KDP. I'd asked them if we had to have an html toc if we had an ncx. Answer = no.

<<
Hello,

Thank your for contacting KDP Support. I hope this email finds you well.

If you already have an NCX Table of Contents, is not necessary to include or have an HTML Table of Contents.

As long as your book has a Table of Contents, it doesn't matter the format of it. We just ask our authors and publishers to include a Table of Content on their books for best customer experience.

I hope this helps. Thanks for using Amazon KDP. I hope you have a nice day ahead.

Regards,
>>>

Uh...

Given what I've just gone through this past week, on behalf of a fairly big client (not just for me--for Amazon, too), I'd be VERY leery of this. Remember that sometimes, (I hate to say this) the lower-level KDP Tech support folks are talking out of their asses.

The PG (Publishing Guidelines) state, in NO uncertain terms, that both are required.

I can tell you, though, that TPTB (The Powers That Be), have said that the FORMAT of the TOC can be as short as you want it to be--even simply:

TITLE OF BOOK
Start Reading
About the Author (or whatever back-matter you may wish the reader to see, like "Other Books By...")

Hope that helps. Of course, you do HAVE that email, so...at least you'd have something to fall back on. Hmmmm.


Hitch

[JSWolf]

Originally Posted by Hitch

Friends, Countrymen, Chilluns: (Gosh, there I go with "patois" again)

You should all pay attention, asap, (those of you publishing, those of you bookmaking, at least), to this:

https://davidgaughran.wordpress.com/...-hits-authors/

Hitch

Nice article on why Amazon is so screwed up.

In the article is a link to Guido's (Who is this Guido?) blog and there is a rather large article on formatting eBooks. The formatting Guido is showing is is not all that good.

[JSWolf]

Originally Posted by brahms

Well I'll be blowed. How about this:

Just got a second mail from KDP. I'd asked them if we had to have an html toc if we had an ncx. Answer = no.

<<
Hello,

Thank your for contacting KDP Support. I hope this email finds you well.

If you already have an NCX Table of Contents, is not necessary to include or have an HTML Table of Contents.

As long as your book has a Table of Contents, it doesn't matter the format of it. We just ask our authors and publishers to include a Table of Content on their books for best customer experience.

I hope this helps. Thanks for using Amazon KDP. I hope you have a nice day ahead.

Regards,
>>>

That reply is just plain wrong. If all you have is an NCX ToC, when the ePub is converted using Kindlegen, there will be NO ToC. Kindlegen does not convert an NCX ToC to an HTML ToC. You do need an HTML ToC and a guide entry for the HTML ToC. This is for the ePub that goes to Amazon to be converted to a Kindle eBook.

[Hitch]

Originally Posted by JSWolf

Nice article on why Amazon is so screwed up.

In the article is a link to Guido's (Who is this Guido?) blog and there is a rather large article on formatting eBooks. The formatting Guido is showing is is not all that good.

Guido Henkel. He put up his blog posts about how to DIY for eBooks dog's years ago, and is frequently mentioned as if he's attained god-like status. I've seen any number of things in his blog that are...questionable. But if you post a question, there's no answer.

{shrug}. You know, some folks in my line of work are really good at promotion. Some are good at making books. A rare few (one?) can do both. I'm not good at promotion. Truth be told, I'm probably not a steely-eyed ePUB pilot any longer, either, as the vast bulk of what I do these days is answering emails and doing admin tasks.

Originally Posted by JSWolf

That reply is just plain wrong. If all you have is an NCX ToC, when the ePub is converted using Kindlegen, there will be NO ToC. Kindlegen does not convert an NCX ToC to an HTML ToC. You do need an HTML ToC and a guide entry for the HTML ToC. This is for the ePub that goes to Amazon to be converted to a Kindle eBook.

Yeah. I wondered if perhaps the tech guy MEANT that the newer devices navigate by the NCX, rather than requiring the toc.html (in order to build an NCX, etc.). The irony is, the answer is almost 180 degrees wrong.

Hitch

[JSWolf]

Originally Posted by Hitch

Guido Henkel. He put up his blog posts about how to DIY for eBooks dog's years ago, and is frequently mentioned as if he's attained god-like status. I've seen any number of things in his blog that are...questionable. But if you post a question, there's no answer.

{shrug}. You know, some folks in my line of work are really good at promotion. Some are good at making books. A rare few (one?) can do both. I'm not good at promotion. Truth be told, I'm probably not a steely-eyed ePUB pilot any longer, either, as the vast bulk of what I do these days is answering emails and doing admin tasks.

I found Guido's blog posting about how to make properly formatted eBooks to be full of nonsense. He gives some rather bad advise. And his formatting is not all that good given his sample. He has a lot of output and hardly any of it is useful. He reminds me of a magician that uses a lot of smoke and mirrors.

Yeah. I wondered if perhaps the tech guy MEANT that the newer devices navigate by the NCX, rather than requiring the toc.html (in order to build an NCX, etc.). The irony is, the answer is almost 180 degrees wrong.

Hitch

I would not say 180 degrees of wrong. I would say 360 degrees of wrong. The tech guy has no idea about making eBooks. He should have passed on the message to someone who does to get the correct answer.

[Hitch]

Originally Posted by JSWolf

I found Guido's blog posting about how to make properly formatted eBooks to be full of nonsense. He gives some rather bad advise. And his formatting is not all that good given his sample. He has a lot of output and hardly any of it is useful. He reminds me of a magician that uses a lot of smoke and mirrors.

In fairness to him, Wolfie, he did write this quite a few years back. I found a few of his suggestions to not pan out, and from the comments on his blog, I wasn't the only one. Nonetheless, he holds "guru" status. As you noted: Gaughran links to him. Think someone like that links to ME? Sh**, no. (To continue my theme of fairness, it's true that I don't post A-->Zed "how to" blogs, either.)

I would not say 180 degrees of wrong. I would say 360 degrees of wrong. The tech guy has no idea about making eBooks. He should have passed on the message to someone who does to get the correct answer.[/QUOTE]

No, sweetie, I meant that the advice was precisely inverted. The books could derive an NCX from the toc.html...but not the other way around. It's patent that Amazon's figured out how to inveigle an NCX from a well-formed toc.html quite some time back; but the other direction--unlike Sigil--seems to still not exist. {sigh}.

Hitch

[JSWolf]

Originally Posted by Hitch

In fairness to him, Wolfie, he did write this quite a few years back. I found a few of his suggestions to not pan out, and from the comments on his blog, I wasn't the only one. Nonetheless, he holds "guru" status. As you noted: Gaughran links to him. Think someone like that links to ME? Sh**, no. (To continue my theme of fairness, it's true that I don't post A-->Zed "how to" blogs, either.)

Has his advice gotten any better? It was pretty rubbish in his blog post. I would not say he's a guru if he's not gotten any better.

[Hitch]

Originally Posted by JSWolf

Has his advice gotten any better? It was pretty rubbish in his blog post. I would not say he's a guru if he's not gotten any better.

Wolfie:

Not that I know of, but then again, I'm not hanging out at how-to blogs. I'd have to go check it out to answer intelligently.

Hitch

[JSWolf]

Originally Posted by Hitch

Wolfie:

Not that I know of, but then again, I'm not hanging out at how-to blogs. I'd have to go check it out to answer intelligently.

Hitch

Let's just agree that Guido is an overblown thinks he knows it all and leave it at that.