Samhain Publishing is winding down and will close

[Cinisajoy]

Originally Posted by MikeB1972

I get you, the quoted figure of 640 followers just seemed a bit exact.
Either way the actual sales should be at least 1 order of magnitude higher than this right?
1 in 10 people who read your book care enough to spread the word (Unintentional pun, but what the heck, I'll keep it in)

That was the exact number the author used on his last book. 640 people that had signed up for his new releases bought his latest book when it came out.

[Cinisajoy]

Originally Posted by BearMountainBooks

It's more like 1 in 100 who leave a review and/or spread the word, but it varies by genre. Romance readers, for example, tend to converse more about characters/books online than some other genres.

Reviews also vary by whether the book is paid for or given away (probably because most books given away for free are not read. Kobo did a study and based on what they could see of "progress" from e-reader data, it was less than one percent read for freebie downloads). So, for example, I recently gave away 1000 copies of Executive Lunch (approx) and 1000 copies of Under Witch Moon in a free run of each. So far I've gotten 1 review on GR and two ratings for Lunch (it's a mystery btw). No new reviews on Amazon. Moon ran two weeks after Lunch and I've gotten one GR rating so far, and no reviews.

This 1 review per 1000 given away matches other authors I checked with before I did the run so that I knew what to expect. For 1000 books sold the number of reviews was about double, but I'm not sure if that holds true over the last year. The GR ratings for books sold is about 5 to 10 per 1000 sold, but the reviews...that is closer to the 1 per 1000 for me.

Keep in mind that GR has only been popular the last 4-5 years or so, which means books released before that will have different data. Some authors I know report almost no activity on GR, but they have very good sales and lots of Amazon reviews. Some of that is genre and some of it is just a complete mystery!

I agree with MikeB and the facebook followers info--we authors do giveaways on FB and we get likes that have nothing to do with followers/buyers. When Amazon used to show the number of followers via the author profile, it was probably a more accurate count of "core" followers. Mailing lists or subscriptions to blogs are probably better at identifying core followers, but those can be skewed by giveaways as well.

Hey Maria,
Logic question on free versus paid books.
Are the freebies not being read because the reader's TBR got so large that the reader is about 3 years behind?
Or could it be the freebies aren't worth what the reader paid for them?
Or perhaps a bit of both?

The reason I ask is I am cleaning out my ereaders. I am just doing the cookbooks at the moment. Over 50% are getting deleted because of formatting or just plain unreadable. There was one that all the recipes had strike throughs.


Part of the problem stems from author expectations. Some put a book free then complain the very next day that I didn't get any reviews.
Granted I know a few people that can read a book in a day. I know a couple that read multiple books a day. But the vast majority take at the very least a week and usually longer.

[Atunah]

Originally Posted by Cinisajoy

Hey Maria,
Logic question on free versus paid books.
Are the freebies not being read because the reader's TBR got so large that the reader is about 3 years behind?
Or could it be the freebies aren't worth what the reader paid for them?
Or perhaps a bit of both?

The reason I ask is I am cleaning out my ereaders. I am just doing the cookbooks at the moment. Over 50% are getting deleted because of formatting or just plain unreadable. There was one that all the recipes had strike throughs.


Part of the problem stems from author expectations. Some put a book free then complain the very next day that I didn't get any reviews.
Granted I know a few people that can read a book in a day. I know a couple that read multiple books a day. But the vast majority take at the very least a week and usually longer.

eta: I just lost my huge response here. Darn it, stupid keyboard. All is gone

Sigh. Short version. I have books going back to 2008 that are paid and free. I cleaned out my account last year, got rid of 1000's of books then.

My average time to get to a book, paid or free is 2-3 years. Sometimes I read them right away, sometimes it takes me years. I am not in a hurry. They aren't going anywhere.

Don't think most readers get to free books they download right away. While the author sits on the day of the offering hitting F5 all day long, we have TBR lists, we have library loans, challenges, reading buddies, book groups. We have moods we have to be in.

Doesn't mean we never read the free books. It just means we'll get to them when we get to them.

Even for a book I might have waited a year for, one of my all time favorite series of all time. Book I am reading now. Even for it did I not drop everything. I read it weeks after it came out. I even had to put a hold on the library, a suspend so I could finish other stuff first. I had to be in the mood for the genre. And that is a must read now, must know what happened kind of series. More than a year wait. So imagine how everyone else fares then.

I agree Cin with author expectations. Or maybe its just today's expectations that everything must happen in real time. Some get all twitchy after 2 days, a week of having had a freebie on offer and no reviews yet. Not only have most readers not read the book yet, most will never leave a review in the first place. I never get a free book from amazon thinking that I have to write a review now. I might, or I might not. Same for paid or for free.

[BearMountainBooks]

Originally Posted by Cinisajoy

Hey Maria,
Logic question on free versus paid books.
Are the freebies not being read because the reader's TBR got so large that the reader is about 3 years behind?
Or could it be the freebies aren't worth what the reader paid for them?
Or perhaps a bit of both?

The reason I ask is I am cleaning out my ereaders. I am just doing the cookbooks at the moment. Over 50% are getting deleted because of formatting or just plain unreadable. There was one that all the recipes had strike throughs.


Part of the problem stems from author expectations. Some put a book free then complain the very next day that I didn't get any reviews.
Granted I know a few people that can read a book in a day. I know a couple that read multiple books a day. But the vast majority take at the very least a week and usually longer.

WHile I think there is some of both, Kobo's experiments/data was pretty telling. If I recall correctly they tracked best sellers in one experiment and freebies in another by collecting data from the readers (the hardware) to see how far readers progressed. Now some readers don't read on the reader and some convert the books and read elsewhere (calibre) but IN GENERAL, I think the study was interesting because it showed that readers very often bought best sellers because they hear about them, but that didn't mean they read them. With freebies, the data was something like...shoot. I can't remember the percent of the books that were opened--low number was even opened. Then less than 1 percent were read.

So let's be generous and say that only 10 percent are even being OPENED to the first page. That tells you that most people who download free books aren't even looking at them so the problem isn't really formatting or other. Sure it is some of the time because I download freebies and then read two or three pages and toss them aside.

For me there are two data points: You give away freebies and can't expect most of them to be looked at or read. Of the number who do read them, you can't expect reviews or ratings very often. The WORST part of free is that there are also a certain number of free readers who NEVER buy books. They are attached to the free model for whatever reason and don't go on to read the others in the series.

The BEST part is that free spreads the word/provide visibility. It does attract readers who go on to read the series and other books. To be most effective, most authors tell me that you have to advertise the "Free" book. (I didn't do any ads. I mentioned it on my thread on mobileread and that's it. I didn't even mention it on my blog or fb). It took 2.5 days to give away 1000 copies of Lunch and right at 3 days to get close to that with Moon (the shut off is hard to do precisely because Amazon can take a few hours to stop free or a couple of days!)

[Cinisajoy]

Originally Posted by BearMountainBooks

WHile I think there is some of both, Kobo's experiments/data was pretty telling. If I recall correctly they tracked best sellers in one experiment and freebies in another by collecting data from the readers (the hardware) to see how far readers progressed. Now some readers don't read on the reader and some convert the books and read elsewhere (calibre) but IN GENERAL, I think the study was interesting because it showed that readers very often bought best sellers because they hear about them, but that didn't mean they read them. With freebies, the data was something like...shoot. I can't remember the percent of the books that were opened--low number was even opened. Then less than 1 percent were read.

So let's be generous and say that only 10 percent are even being OPENED to the first page. That tells you that most people who download free books aren't even looking at them so the problem isn't really formatting or other. Sure it is some of the time because I download freebies and then read two or three pages and toss them aside.

For me there are two data points: You give away freebies and can't expect most of them to be looked at or read. Of the number who do read them, you can't expect reviews or ratings very often. The WORST part of free is that there are also a certain number of free readers who NEVER buy books. They are attached to the free model for whatever reason and don't go on to read the others in the series.

The BEST part is that free spreads the word/provide visibility. It does attract readers who go on to read the series and other books. To be most effective, most authors tell me that you have to advertise the "Free" book. (I didn't do any ads. I mentioned it on my thread on mobileread and that's it. I didn't even mention it on my blog or fb). It took 2.5 days to give away 1000 copies of Lunch and right at 3 days to get close to that with Moon (the shut off is hard to do precisely because Amazon can take a few hours to stop free or a couple of days!)

On that Kobo study, on the freebies how long had it been out? 1 day, 1 week, 1 month or longer. That would be very useful to know. Was it a long term study or a short term study?
Though I can get behind the 10% because if an author puts several free and the first one is not good, it stands to reason the others will go unopened.
Oh and I pick up used books at the thrift store. About 1 in 100 have obviously never been read or opened.

Now I think I picked up your freebie. The problem there is I was using my k3 at the time. So your book along with 300 others, I will have to find on my manage your content page and send to a different reader.

[BearMountainBooks]

Originally Posted by Cinisajoy

On that Kobo study, on the freebies how long had it been out? 1 day, 1 week, 1 month or longer. That would be very useful to know. Was it a long term study or a short term study?
Though I can get behind the 10% because if an author puts several free and the first one is not good, it stands to reason the others will go unopened.
Oh and I pick up used books at the thrift store. About 1 in 100 have obviously never been read or opened.

Now I think I picked up your freebie. The problem there is I was using my k3 at the time. So your book along with 300 others, I will have to find on my manage your content page and send to a different reader.

I'd have to go look but I think it might have been as long as a year. It was not a short study (that would be less useful).

I don't think the number of opened was even 10 percent. I talked to one of the kobo folks after the study and asked some questions about going free and discoverability was still the number one problem -- even free they suggested a month-long experiment and some advertising behind it. Getting read was the number TWO problem because of the sheer number of free titles that are downloaded each day. Many readers have a hobby of downloading books as opposed to reading them. They then get busy and promptly forget about the free ones and may never see them again. Part of that is that they are out nothing. A book paid for is much more likely to at least be opened.

Let me go find the link. I know I blogged the one study (I think they did three in total, one was something to do with genre).

[BearMountainBooks]

Here's the genre one:

http://www.nytimes.com/2015/02/05/ar...=fb-share&_r=1

I will look for the other one later. I think I posted that somewhere else...I don't think it's part of the article above...it was on Kobo's blog if I recall. Will Check. Must go find tomato plants. The nursery has Amish Paste in finally! I need to go get some!

[Cinisajoy]

Good luck finding your plants.

Oh and just for a little trivia, by the time I get to a book, I do not remember whether it was paid or free.
The book I am having trouble getting through is the most expensive e-book I ever bought. Atlas Shrugged.
Now I do read my $5 books when I get them. Anything less is just put in the TBR.

[Fbone]

I read a blog post where an author said that he sold 140,000 copies of his latest ebook the previous year. I never heard of him so looked him up on Amazon. He had 21 reviews. Not a very good response.

[Josieb1]

I bought 11 books from Samhain today, most were completing series I had already started but 3 were a new series that caught my eye as it had been recommended on a blog I follow. The series has four books. I found on Calibre that I already had book 1, it had come from Amazon in 2011 and was free.

[Blossom]

There are many reasons we do not write reviews on books we read. If you haven't got anything nice to say...some Authors throw huge hissy fits or reply to your review with comments. I stop doing reviews after doing one for a ARC for an Entangled author who just couldn't accept I didn't like her book. Gemma Haliday doesn't allow you ARC unless it's five star. If it's less than that you are to write to her why you didn't like the book but do not leave a review. The review system is hugely flaw so I stay out of it.

[BearMountainBooks]

Originally Posted by Blossom

There are many reasons we do not write reviews on books we read. If you haven't got anything nice to say...some Authors throw huge hissy fits or reply to your review with comments. I stop doing reviews after doing one for a ARC for an Entangled author who just couldn't accept I didn't like her book. Gemma Haliday doesn't allow you ARC unless it's five star. If it's less than that you are to write to her why you didn't like the book but do not leave a review. The review system is hugely flaw so I stay out of it.

That's odd. I have gotten review copies from Gemma Holiday and there were no terms at all. The one book was a DNF for me and I know I thought about requesting two others but never got around to it. When I requested the first, since I have a blog, I was offered other books for other people who do guest reviews (if they wanted to--there was no obligation, just an offer to look through the catalog.)

Yes, it has gotten harder to get reviews and some genres just do not generate many. A lot of people who used to leave reviews no longer do, partly for reasons that Blossom mentioned and some timed out on doing them--they just want to read!!! One of my most frequent reviewers (For the blog, not my books) no longer does reviews. Another guest reviewer does them a lot less often and really only wants to talk about the 5 star ones. She says it's too much effort to waste on a 3 star book. I don't argue. I take guest reviews and don't set too many rules.

[Cinisajoy]

I actually got a private message on another forum from an author calling me names and telling me I should NOT have reviewed his book if I didn't like it.

First line in his description was this is a stand alone book. He ended the book with BUY the next one to see what happens.

I have pretty much quit reviewing books although not for that reason.

[Josieb1]

I've reviewed for two websites over the last three years. I'm stopping now as I'm basically burnt out. I just want to buy a book and read it and not worry anymore about making notes for a review.

[theducks]

Originally Posted by Little.Egret

That's Toni (Weisskopf)

I like your description of Amazon &c as Traditional

The Baen Free Library would have had to be reconstituted anyway as authors reverted their rights for self publication.

I knew that. My fingers went and did it anyway


Amazon is a 'Traditional Book Seller" in that they sold Paper books long before e-books were common.