The Vent and Rant Thread

[CRussel]

Hitch, I'd send you karma, but I need to spread some around. But for the record, firing a client is a good thing when they're like this. I've fired clients as a consultant for being "too needy". And I've had different rates for other clients that are needy or annoying, but who I am willing to keep at a higher rate. Don't feel guilty or feel the need to explain yourself. A simple "I'm sorry, but we're over-committed right now and can't take on your book. When you first contacted us, I thought we'd be able to work it into our tight schedule, but your book will clearly require more time than we have right now. Goodbye!"

[badgoodDeb]

Very nicely and politely put!

[Hitch]

Originally Posted by CRussel

Hitch, I'd send you karma, but I need to spread some around. But for the record, firing a client is a good thing when they're like this. I've fired clients as a consultant for being "too needy". And I've had different rates for other clients that are needy or annoying, but who I am willing to keep at a higher rate. Don't feel guilty or feel the need to explain yourself. A simple "I'm sorry, but we're over-committed right now and can't take on your book. When you first contacted us, I thought we'd be able to work it into our tight schedule, but your book will clearly require more time than we have right now. Goodbye!"

Charlie:

Aw, thanks. I have plenty o'K, but I appreciate the thought. That's exactly (or, hey, not as gracious, but..) what I would have said BUT, we had already taken her $$$--the kerfuffle over her inability to figure out how to pay was the beginning of the end--so sadly, I had to say, "look, we're just not working out. We aren't set up to provide the type of individualized assistance that I now realize you are going to need." She kept pushing it, so...eventually, I had to explain WHY I felt that way, which is when s**t went south. Mean old me.

HOWEVER, Charlie, mon sweetie, I'm saving that text in my Evernote for the next one. ;-) It's so suave and de-boner.

Hitch

[cromag]

Originally Posted by Hitch

LOL, Cro:
...
Thanks, Cro. May I have a sundae, please?

Hitch

No.

Shall I explain that for you?

[eschwartz]

Hitch,

It seems to me that if you have already committed to dumping the client, you don't need to be nice anymore. Just say "the details of my obligations to you are explained in full, in the T&C which you signed. Here's the link, for reference. Bye."

It's not even particularly rude (no cursing, no insults), just brusque.

Why give yourself a marvin over it?

[Hitch]

Originally Posted by cromag

No.

Shall I explain that for you?

LOL, no, thanks. I think I'll ask Mr. Just-Good-Enough, instead.

Originally Posted by eschwartz

Hitch,

It seems to me that if you have already committed to dumping the client, you don't need to be nice anymore. Just say "the details of my obligations to you are explained in full, in the T&C which you signed. Here's the link, for reference. Bye."

It's not even particularly rude (no cursing, no insults), just brusque.

Why give yourself a marvin over it?

Amazement: I didn't curse. Or really insult her. I pretty much did what you said, the "here's why."

What I wasn't happy about is that she was sent to us by a client who is rather successful at self-pubbing and marketing. She'd hired him to do the latter, and all that. So, sadly, now she's haranguing him. I've discussed this with him directly, to avoid the "she said/she said" bull.

Ah, well. Live'n learn. Or, in her case, not learn.

I wasn't really marvining. Like I said...long night, very little sleep, long day with installers crawling all over, pounding fairly relentlessly above my head (really)...even Mother Theresa probably woulda been cranky. Oh, jeth, and let's not forget the big honking check that went with them, too. <urk>

Hitch

[CRussel]

Originally Posted by eschwartz

Hitch,

It seems to me that if you have already committed to dumping the client, you don't need to be nice anymore. Just say "the details of my obligations to you are explained in full, in the T&C which you signed. Here's the link, for reference. Bye."

It's not even particularly rude (no cursing, no insults), just brusque.

Why give yourself a marvin over it?

Yes, you need to be nice. Firm, clear, unequivocal, but polite and nice. This is a small world, and word gets around. It costs you nothing to tell be polite, but can save you many other, more desirable, clients later. It's all about Karma.

Originally Posted by Hitch

HOWEVER, Charlie, mon sweetie, I'm saving that text in my Evernote for the next one. ;-) It's so suave and de-boner.

Hitch

Use it with my blessing, I renounce my copyright on it. Seriously, it's important to always ask yourself if Miss Manners would approve. Not for your client's sake, but for your own self-image. You can, and should, fire some clients. But let the onus fall on you - it costs nothing, and allows everyone to save face. And you never know when that person will get asked for an opinion on your firm.

[eschwartz]

Originally Posted by CRussel

Yes, you need to be nice. Firm, clear, unequivocal, but polite and nice. This is a small world, and word gets around. It costs you nothing to tell be polite, but can save you many other, more desirable, clients later. It's all about Karma.

There is nice on one end and mean on the other, but in between you can just be polite and yet no-nonsense, surely?

[Hitch]

Hi, guys:

Yes, of course. I try to be nice and firm. (Like a nice plump plum, ha!). I will confess, however, that I have a tendecy to "over-explain" using chronologies.

Yeah, yeah, I know. I grew up (by which I mean, my professional growing-up. From my 20's -->) running legal teams and handling a lot of matters that worked like legal issues. For example, entitlements (water rights, zoning, that type of thing). Thus, I learned early on: tell them what you're going to tell them, tell them, and then tell them what you told them.

That persists in me to this day. (After all, I've only been out of that world since '08.) I know that many people find my writing hard to suffer. Especially people that are flibbertigibbets. I tend to explain things sort of : this is what I'm going to explain; explanation; this is why it matters. End of letter.

So...a lot of people find my explanations offensive. I don't necessarily mean for that to happen. But when a conflict arises (like the one I've just bitched about), my response is pretty much always: explain why there's a conflict, in brief; explore the conflict chronologically (You wrote this. I responded that. You then said X, to which I replied Y, with dates for review purposes), and then say so, that's why this occurred.

Regular folks don't "work" like that, it seems. They don't like plowing through "A caused B, B caused C.." and they don't like to find out that they had any part in an event that they are now complaining about.

Sorry...that's a poor explanation. But...eh, screw it. You are, of course, both utterly correct. Polite, brusque and firm. ;-) Thanks.

Hitch

[CRussel]

Originally Posted by eschwartz

There is nice on one end and mean on the other, but in between you can just be polite and yet no-nonsense, surely?

Certainly, though in email especially, I tend to want to err on the side of polite and less brusque whenever I can. The medium tends to distort brusqueness into rudeness if one is not careful.

[DMcCunney]

Originally Posted by badgoodDeb

My dad used to say if I couldn't describe a movie's plot in 3 sentences, he didn't wanna hear it.

From what I've seen of Hollywood, if you can't make your pitch in one sentence, the studio is unlikely to listen.

("It's a remake of X, which has already sold and made money" is a good start.)

A friend decades back was a film maker, and really wanted to do a film of Alfred Bester's "The Stars My Destination". I knew Bester, and was able to put them in touch. Bester stated it had been pretty much continually optioned, but no one had tried to make it. My friend estimated it would take about $20 million to make (in the 1970s), and didn't see getting financing. Neither did anyone else, which was why it was optioned but not made. Pity, as it had a one sentence pitch - "The Count of Monte Cristo in space!".
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Dennis

[DMcCunney]

Originally Posted by HomeInMyShoes

^Nope got me stumped. My first home machine was a Commodore Vic-20. Then I moved to the mighty 128. Then I went into the evil PC clone path.

My first home machine was an AT&T 3B1 running Unix System V Release 2. The 3B1 was a sibling of the PC7300, a/k/a UNIX-PC. It used a 10mhz Motorola MC68010 CPU, and would boot and run Unix in one megabyte of RAM and do useful work. Give it more and it flew. (Mine has 3.5MB RAM.) It was designed and built for AT&T by workstation maker Convergent Technologies under an OEM agreement.

I didn't get a PC (a clone running a 10mhz NEC V20 CPU) until rather later. My SO, who learned on a 3B1, thought DOS was brain damaged, and was quite right.

When I started running Window 3.X, the machine was a 33mhz 386 SX with 4MB RAM, upgraded to 8MB. The 3B1 ran rings around it. I looked at the 3B1 running a full multi-user multitasking OS, and at Win 3.X struggling to run a multi-tasking shell on top of a single-tasking OS on a machine running on a processor three times as fast as the 3B1 with more than twice the RAM, and looked in the direction of Redmond, WA, and said "What are you doing?" I still say that.

And I still have the 3B1. You will pry it from my cold, dead fingers.
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Dennis

[DMcCunney]

Originally Posted by wodin

Anyway we would feed Rex table scraps, and soon learned to cook extra so Rex would have enough to eat. Once we had roast beef, mashed potatoes, gravy, some kind of desert and Brussels sprouts. We loaded up his plate with a big heaping pile of everything with the one remaining sprout in the middle. When he was done he left a pristinely clean plate with one pristinely clean Brussels sprout sitting in the middle.

My SO had a Weimariner named Sam as a kid. If it was people food, Sam would eat it. He was also grumpy if he didn't get his coffee in the morning. She described him drinking grapefruit juice. He made doggy "Ewww!" faces, but finished it, because it was people food.

Some folks in my neighborhood have a Labradoodle (Labradoor Retriever/Poodle mix) named Puddle, and a King Charles Spaniel/Poodle mix named Rory. Puddle's person complained he had his own agenda. There's a pizza place on the corner down the street, and Puddle found a slice of pizza under a car nearby. Ever since, walks take twice as long because he must check under every car for a possible slice of pizza. (He doesn't know if he doesn't look...) Rory thinks I'm the Best Thing Evar! because I rub her belly and let her lick my face. My SO thinks part of her reaction is "Ohhhh! Uncut male alpha! Mount me! I want to have your puppies!", but I doubt I can get across that cross species relationships like that just don't work...
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Dennis

[DMcCunney]

Originally Posted by cromag

We've got Nomorobo, so not many of these get through. But, I did get one a couple of weeks ago. The caller had a strong Asian-Indian accent and claimed to be an engineer with Windows Systems. I told him, "No, you are a liar and a thief, and you bring shame upon your family." (I've been told that my response was culturally insensitive, but I think it was warranted.)

I get an assortment of those. (Just got one this morning, in fact.) An employee on my building's front desk is Indian. I'm considering asking "Harry, how do you say 'Eat shit and die' in Hindi?" as a response for the next time.

(A while back, I overheard a Latino in NYC asking an Indian companion "How you say 'asshole' in Tamil?" I was tickled. Want to teach someone a foreign language? Start with the curses. )
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Dennis

[Katsunami]

Originally Posted by DMcCunney

And I still have the 3B1. You will pry it from my cold, dead fingers.

Maybe you should upgrade it to Plan 9 and shoot it into space.