360 TByte on a 2 EUR sized glass disc

Freeshadow · 02-17-2016, 09:08 AM

The durable memory for the future?
This could be the ROMs for libraries SF makes us dream of:

http://www.southampton.ac.uk/news/20...ge-update.page

pdurrant · 02-17-2016, 09:53 AM

It's the write speed that's the main problem at the moment, I expect.

Freeshadow · 02-17-2016, 09:59 AM

As they are intended as long term archival I assume it's not really main focus

pdurrant · 02-17-2016, 10:09 AM

Even for archival purposes, you need a high write speed. With 360TB to fill, at (say) 10MB/s, it'd take over a year to write a full disk.

HarryT · 02-17-2016, 10:58 AM

I guess it depends whether you have to write it all at once, or if it can be gradually filled up, as the need is required.

The fact that data lasts a long time doesn't necessarily mean that anyone will be able to read it, of course. A classic example is the BBC's "Domesday Project" in 1986. A huge nationwide project to record the lives of everyday people, intended to be a "time capsule" for the future, and written as a laserdisk, which was seen at the time to be the technology of the future. In 2011 they had to issue an appeal for help to save it, because there were no computers around, a mere 25 years later, that could read the information.

ApK · 02-17-2016, 11:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HarryT

The fact that data lasts a long time doesn't necessarily mean that anyone will be able to read it, of course. A classic example is the BBC's "Domesday Project" in 1986. A huge nationwide project to record the lives of everyday people, intended to be a "time capsule" for the future, and written as a laserdisk, which was seen at the time to be the technology of the future. In 2011 they had to issue an appeal for help to save it, because there were no computers around, a mere 25 years later, that could read the information.

I'd be willing to bet that if a technologically advanced society still exists when the time capsule is eventually opened (i.e. one which would have laserdisk players if they had happened to be the popular choice), then they would be able to recreate any needed tech if they felt it was important enough.

IOW a society reduced to rocks and sticks would not be able to read these 5d femotglass thingies even if they HAD been the dominant format up untl the fall, but a society that merely left the technology behind and moved on could reinvent it if needed.

I'm in the middle of reading (er...listening to) Ray Kurzweil's "The Singularity is Near" and I'm wondering where are the nanotube memories they were demoing back in 2004? Durable enough to replace flash, fast enough to replace DRAM and orders of magnitude more dense.....

ApK

HarryT · 02-17-2016, 12:03 PM

Apologies - a poor choice of words on my part. I didn't mean "time capsule" in that sense, but rather a snapshot of Britain in 1986 that people could look at now and in the future. It's actually stored in the National Archives, and is searchable online, but in 2011 there was a real risk that the machines it ran on, long out-of-date "BBC Micros", would die and there was no replacement for them.

Luckily they were able to get the information transferred to modern PC data formats so it's safe (for the time being, at least).

pdurrant · 02-17-2016, 01:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ApK

I I'm wondering where are the nanotube memories they were demoing back in 2004? Durable enough to replace flash, fast enough to replace DRAM and orders of magnitude more dense.....

NRAM. Currently moving into production it seems.

And then there's 3D Xpoint

And there are several other non-volatile memory technologies on their way.

I very much doubt that Flash memory will remain the choice for solid state non-volatile memory for more than another five years.

tubemonkey · 02-17-2016, 08:01 PM

For everything you wish to pass on, write it down on parchment scrolls, roll 'em up, place 'em in jars, then hide 'em in caves near the West Bank of Israel. No electronics needed for translation and they'll last thousands of years.

crossi · 02-17-2016, 09:23 PM

Clay tablets last longer but have long write speeds.

murg · 02-17-2016, 09:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ApK

I'm in the middle of reading (er...listening to) Ray Kurzweil's "The Singularity is Near" and I'm wondering where are the nanotube memories they were demoing back in 2004? Durable enough to replace flash, fast enough to replace DRAM and orders of magnitude more dense.....

ApK

Clearly, the proper memory type for the singularity is bubble memory, considering how bubble-headed many people are...

ApK · 02-17-2016, 11:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by murg

Clearly, the proper memory type for the singularity is bubble memory, considering how bubble-headed many people are...

Not sure what you're trying to say, but, blast from the past! I remember when bubble memory was set to be the Next Big Thing! I think I read about it in Byte or Softalk....

tubemonkey · 02-17-2016, 11:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by murg

Clearly, the proper memory type for the singularity is bubble memory, considering how bubble-headed many people are...

Quote:

Originally Posted by ApK

Not sure what you're trying to say, but, blast from the past! I remember when bubble memory was set to be the Next Big Thing! I think I read about it in Byte or Softalk....

We got the bubble-headed-bleach-blond who comes on at five

Cinisajoy · 02-18-2016, 12:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tubemonkey

We got the bubble-headed-bleach-blond who comes on at five

Hi Don.

HarryT · 02-18-2016, 01:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tubemonkey

For everything you wish to pass on, write it down on parchment scrolls, roll 'em up, place 'em in jars, then hide 'em in caves near the West Bank of Israel. No electronics needed for translation and they'll last thousands of years.

The British Parliament still writes laws on vellum parchment scrolls for storage in the National Archives.

02-17-2016, 09:08 AM	#1
Freeshadow temp. out of service Posts: 2,815 Karma: 24285242 Join Date: May 2010 Location: Duisburg (DE) Device: PB 623	360 TByte on a 2 EUR sized glass disc The durable memory for the future? This could be the ROMs for libraries SF makes us dream of: http://www.southampton.ac.uk/news/20...ge-update.page

02-17-2016, 10:58 AM	#5
HarryT eBook Enthusiast Posts: 85,544 Karma: 93383099 Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: UK Device: Kindle Oasis 2, iPad Pro 10.5", iPhone 6	I guess it depends whether you have to write it all at once, or if it can be gradually filled up, as the need is required. The fact that data lasts a long time doesn't necessarily mean that anyone will be able to read it, of course. A classic example is the BBC's "Domesday Project" in 1986. A huge nationwide project to record the lives of everyday people, intended to be a "time capsule" for the future, and written as a laserdisk, which was seen at the time to be the technology of the future. In 2011 they had to issue an appeal for help to save it, because there were no computers around, a mere 25 years later, that could read the information. Last edited by HarryT; 02-17-2016 at 11:02 AM.

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02-17-2016, 09:53 AM	#2
pdurrant The Grand Mouse 高貴的老鼠 Posts: 73,948 Karma: 315160596 Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Norfolk, England Device: Kindle Oasis	It's the write speed that's the main problem at the moment, I expect.

02-17-2016, 09:59 AM	#3
Freeshadow temp. out of service Posts: 2,815 Karma: 24285242 Join Date: May 2010 Location: Duisburg (DE) Device: PB 623	As they are intended as long term archival I assume it's not really main focus

02-17-2016, 10:09 AM	#4
pdurrant The Grand Mouse 高貴的老鼠 Posts: 73,948 Karma: 315160596 Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Norfolk, England Device: Kindle Oasis	Even for archival purposes, you need a high write speed. With 360TB to fill, at (say) 10MB/s, it'd take over a year to write a full disk.

02-17-2016, 12:03 PM	#7
HarryT eBook Enthusiast Posts: 85,544 Karma: 93383099 Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: UK Device: Kindle Oasis 2, iPad Pro 10.5", iPhone 6	Apologies - a poor choice of words on my part. I didn't mean "time capsule" in that sense, but rather a snapshot of Britain in 1986 that people could look at now and in the future. It's actually stored in the National Archives, and is searchable online, but in 2011 there was a real risk that the machines it ran on, long out-of-date "BBC Micros", would die and there was no replacement for them. Luckily they were able to get the information transferred to modern PC data formats so it's safe (for the time being, at least).

02-17-2016, 08:01 PM	#9
tubemonkey monkey on the fringe Posts: 45,762 Karma: 158733736 Join Date: May 2010 Location: Seattle Metro Device: Moto E6, Echo Show	For everything you wish to pass on, write it down on parchment scrolls, roll 'em up, place 'em in jars, then hide 'em in caves near the West Bank of Israel. No electronics needed for translation and they'll last thousands of years.

02-17-2016, 09:23 PM	#10
crossi Guru Posts: 997 Karma: 12000001 Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: Seattle Wahington U.S. Device: kindle	Clay tablets last longer but have long write speeds.