Innovation or e-waste? Apple rumored to ditch headphone jack

[HarryT]

Originally Posted by cvkemp

I can tell you this I worked in the electronic industry and I know that companies that I will not call by name designed devices, circuit board, etc., that would fail soon after their warranty period. Then if the customer wanted the device, circuit board repaired we would replace the bad components with the correct replacements that should have been in the original build of the device, or boards.

Which is precisely why EU consumer law now requires that a product have a "reasonable" lifespan, rather than a fixed warranty period. If a TV fails after 13 months a manufacturer isn't allowed to say "but it only has a 12 month warranty", because a reasonable person would expect a TV set to last longer than a year.

[ApK]

Originally Posted by cvkemp

I can tell you this I worked in the electronic industry and I know that companies that I will not call by name designed devices, circuit board, etc., that would fail soon after their warranty period. Then if the customer wanted the device, circuit board repaired we would replace the bad components with the correct replacements that should have been in the original build of the device, or boards.

I don't think anyone is doubting that the idea of planned obsolescence exists, but even the situation you're describing may not be exactly what it seems, even perhaps to some of the workers involved in the very products.

There are far more people spouting theories about motives they could not know than there are actual decision makers releasing info about their evil-doings.

For example, however it may have looked to the tech assembling the product, the company MAY not have "designed the product to fail right after the warranty," rather they may merely have used the least expensive part they were able to source at the right price in the right quantity at the time they needed it. It's no secret that mass-market consumers tend to favor 'good enough' cheap products over over-engineered expensive ones.

There need not be any mustache-twirling "design it to last exactly 13 months!" orders, there may merely have been a "can we ship it on time at a price people will pay?" decision.

In the case of Apple, however, I would believe there were some twirled 'staches involved.

[HarryT]

Originally Posted by ApK

There need not be any mustache-twirling "design it to last exactly 13 months!" orders, there may merely have been a "can we ship it on time at a price people will pay?" decision.

Precisely. There's nothing either illegal or immoral about not building the highest-quality product possible. Companies have to produce products for prices that the consumer will pay, as you rightly say. Not every car has to be a Rolls Royce.

[Katsunami]

Originally Posted by HarryT

Which is precisely why EU consumer law now requires that a product have a "reasonable" lifespan, rather than a fixed warranty period. If a TV fails after 13 months a manufacturer isn't allowed to say "but it only has a 12 month warranty", because a reasonable person would expect a TV set to last longer than a year.

"Manufacturer" should be "seller". Under these guidelines, the seller is the responsible party which has to make sure the device functions properly.

The rules say: 2 years of warranty, and a 'reasonable life expectancy afterward', though after warranty, the seller is allowed to charge part of the repair costs, depending on the item's age.

In practice, however, you're most likely done for if a device fails out of warranty. You'll never be able to get the seller to have it repaired. Some sellers even keep to the manufacturer's warranty, which is often one year, and won't have a device repaired afterward.

You can get it done through court, but that is *way* too expensive for most devices. You'd pay more to get the case into court than the price of the repair or even an outright replacement.

[Rizla]

Originally Posted by HarryT

Precisely. There's nothing either illegal or immoral about not building the highest-quality product possible. Companies have to produce products for prices that the consumer will pay, as you rightly say. Not every car has to be a Rolls Royce.

But it is immoral to produce products that are designed to fail sooner than need be. It is wasteful and destructive

[HarryT]

Originally Posted by Rizla

But it is immoral to produce products that are designed to fail sooner than need be. It is wasteful and destructive.

Who defines what the "need" is? The manufacturer's need is to maximise their profit. That may different to the consumer's need, but it's not immoral.

[Rizla]

Originally Posted by HarryT

Who defines what the "need" is? The manufacturer's need is to maximise their profit. That may different to the consumer's need, but it's not immoral.

Common-sense and survival dictates "need" and what is immoral. We are destroying the planet. Deliberate waste on a global industrial scale is madness. We are poisoning the planet even as we use up dwindling resources.

[theducks]

Originally Posted by HarryT

Are you seriously suggesting that LED lightbulbs - which last almost indefinitely - either draw more power or give off less light than incandescent bulbs?

Long Lasting was a US labeling for (now older) Tungsten based bulbs that got their 'Last' by running a cooler filament . (Less Light for watts input)
Lumens (per watt), tells the story

Funny thing, The All Knowing regulators ignored all the edge cases where electronic or (consumer) fluorescent technology is unworkable.

HOT Locations:
Ovens and Attics for example. Basically any place an unprotected Human can stay for > 30 minutes.
Totally enclosed (glass, or plastic). Read the markings on the bulb
The electronics inside still generate some heat, and must keep cool (<60-80C)


Really COLD Locations. (LEDS do Work in far colder areas)

CFL, or regular fluorescent need special fixtures to start reliably much below 40F (4.5C). They will run (after a start) in colder areas.

In colder locations, the electronics needs to be kept warm or starting and voltages control may suffer.

[Cyberman tM]

Originally Posted by HarryT

Are you seriously suggesting that LED lightbulbs - which last almost indefinitely - either draw more power or give off less light than incandescent bulbs?

No, I was refering to incandescent light bulbs only. Didn't think of anything but the old-school type. Not even thought of Halogen.
(Which incidently, I think are great. Of course, hardly anyone thought of them when the "oh my god we're going to die of mercury poisoning"-craze started and everyone took "energy saving light" to mean only "neon" tubes and nothing else at all, ever.)

Originally Posted by Phogg

Have you ever actually seen the radio directed light technology that was suppressed (not hard to do when one company owns all the patents) in the sixties in use, or are you just denying that planned obsolescence exists because the concept disturbs you?

Patents run out after some time. If the company had the patent in the 60ties, it should have been free around 90 I think.
Did no one pick up the patent? Or look into it (AFAIK, patents aren't top-secret)?

Originally Posted by Phogg

A lot of things do happen that are not on the public record, and very often private records detailing things are kept private because they make someone look bad.

I'm quite sure patents are public. So if those involved knew they were "suppressed", why not tell more people about it, or snatch the technology once it's free?

I'd be more inclined to believe that something has been invented and then immediately withdrawn WITHOUT there being a patent.

[HarryT]

Originally Posted by Cyberman tM

)
Patents run out after some time. If the company had the patent in the 60ties, it should have been free around 90 I think.
Did no one pick up the patent? Or look into it (AFAIK, patents aren't top-secret)?

I'm quite sure patents are public. So if those involved knew they were "suppressed", why not tell more people about it, or snatch the technology once it's free?

Precisely - patents are public; they can't be used to suppress something or keep it secret. Precisely the opposite, in fact.

[ApK]

It's also worth noting that patented inventions need to be novel, non-obvious and applicable to some kind of industry, and not much else. They don't, for example, need to be proven to work, or be practical. If I'm not mistaken they may even include technology that doesn't yet exist.

[Fbone]

I tried LED bulbs and none of my lamps accept them. I'm hoarding 60W bulbs in case they become unavailable.

[Greg Anos]

Buy early, pay much...

I have found over the last decade, that buying relatively early in the production curve usually gets you the most durable product. The companies are trying to build a market, and once built, they try to build and sell cheap.

I found this in e-book readers, CFL bulbs, and LED bulbs. The one I bought in the early mass marketing lasted much longer than the ones I bought later, when they were much cheaper.

[ApK]

Originally Posted by Fbone

I tried LED bulbs and none of my lamps accept them. I'm hoarding 60W bulbs in case they become unavailable.

Maybe consider replacing or refitting the lamps instead?

[ApK]

Originally Posted by Ralph Sir Edward

Buy early, pay much...

I have found over the last decade, that buying relatively early in the production curve usually gets you the most durable product. The companies are trying to build a market, and once built, they try to build and sell cheap.

I found this in e-book readers, CFL bulbs, and LED bulbs. The one I bought in the early mass marketing lasted much longer than the ones I bought later, when they were much cheaper.

My experience has been just the opposite!
So many of my early CFLs failed, I stared keeping a documentation folder and making sure I collected on all the warranties (and I must say, most companies were pretty good about sending out replacements).

Later, cheaper CFLs have lasted me much longer.

With LEDs, I can yet speak to longevity, but the new cheap ones sure seem better to me than the earliest ones I tried. They are certainly brighter, whiter and dimmable!

I cross my fingers and hope I'm right, that manufactures learn to do better for less money as time goes by and demand scales up.