Windows 10 - free upgrade to those with PC using Windows 7 or 8

[Sweetpea]

Originally Posted by rcentros

Exactly. If you want to run Windows 7 on a brand new computer, you're out of luck. That's why I said I'll have to buy used PCs for my wife going forward. I -- personally -- use Linux. I can choose whatever hardware I want.

No, you're not out of luck. It's just that if you run into problems you won't get support from microsoft. And we're talking about sytems (think Dell, HP, etc), not custom made rigs.

[kennyc]

Originally Posted by Sweetpea

No, you're not out of luck. It's just that if you run into problems you won't get support from microsoft. And we're talking about sytems (think Dell, HP, etc), not custom made rigs.

Right.

[rcentros]

Originally Posted by Sweetpea

No, you're not out of luck. It's just that if you run into problems you won't get support from microsoft. And we're talking about sytems (think Dell, HP, etc), not custom made rigs.

By "support" Microsoft means "security updates" and various upgrades. You'll be almost in the same boat as those who continue to use XP -- the difference being that Windows 7 is supposed to be supported until 2020 and Windows 8.1 is supposed to be supported until 2023.

If you own a system with an Intel 6th generation Core processor—more memorably known as Skylake—and run Windows 7 or Windows 8.1, you'll have to think about upgrading to Windows 10 within the next 18 months. Microsoft announced today that after July 17, 2017, only the "most critical" security fixes will be released for those platforms and those fixes will only be made available if they don't "risk the reliability or compatibility" of Windows 7 and 8.1 on other (non-Skylake) systems.

The full range of compatibility and security fixes will be published for non-Skylake machines for Windows 7 until January 14 2020, and for Windows 8.1 until January 10 2023.

Next generation processors, including Intel's "Kaby Lake", Qualcomm's 8996 (branded as Snapdragon 820), and AMD's "Bristol Ridge" APUs (which will use the company's Excavator architecture, not its brand new Zen arch) will only be supported on Windows 10. Going forward, the company says that using the latest generation processors will always require the latest generation operating system.

http://arstechnica.com/information-t...to-windows-10/

[Katsunami]

Originally Posted by Sweetpea

No, you're not out of luck. It's just that if you run into problems you won't get support from microsoft. And we're talking about sytems (think Dell, HP, etc), not custom made rigs.

You don't get support from Microsoft, as in they don't help you if you call them, or they don't provide any Windows Updates anymore? I haven't gotten that clear. I wouldn't mind the first, but I think the second would be very bothersome. Many companies will be buying new computers, but will still run Windows 7 on them until 2020, if only to keep their entire company on the same OS.

[rcentros]

Originally Posted by Katsunami

You don't get support from Microsoft, as in they don't help you if you call them, or they don't provide any Windows Updates anymore? I haven't gotten that clear. I wouldn't mind the first, but would think the second would be very bothersome. Many companies will be buying new computers, but will still run Windows 7 on them until 2020, if only to keep their entire company on the same OS.

They'll have until July, 2017 (18 months) to upgrade to Windows 10 on any machine using a "Skylake" CPU. The upcoming, newest CPUs from Intel, AMD and Qualcomm won't even have the 18 month option. This is not about call-in support, this is normal OS update support. (Support that will continue for pre-Skylake CPUs until 2020 on Win 7 and 2023 on Win 8.1.)

[Katsunami]

That's crap. Microsoft has always supported Windows for 10 years. When they released Windows 7, they did so on the premise that it would be supported until 2020. Now, they effectively don't do that. It's impractical to require people to either run pre-2016 systems until 2020, or to update to Windows 10 in such a hurry.

If, for Windows 7 and 8.x they had said: OK, we're doing security updates, but we're not adding new features. If your new mainboard or CPU has features not supported by Windows 7, you can't use them, unless the manufacturer creates a driver/extension on their own.

(Microsoft did add official NMVE-support for Windows 7, for example.)

I could live with that; it has happened in the past that an old OS was unable to use new features. One example is Windows NT 4.0 (1996), created before USB was introduced (1997/1998). Microsoft never added USB-support, but big manufacturers such as DELL and HP had a driver stack to support at least keyboards, mice, and some (tested) printers and scanners.

edit: Ah, yes. Blue Water USB. I remember now. I've read about that in the late 90's/early 2000's. I wouldn't be surprised if the DELL/HP etc drivers were rebranded versions of that driver stack.

[Greg Anos]

And the walls are being build stronger and higher...

[dickloraine]

Maybe this link helps:
https://blogs.windows.com/windowsexp...on-innovation/

That is the original post by microsoft. If I understand that correctly, than you could use new processors with win 7, but without using the new features of the processors. It could be even slower than using an older one. A limited number of devices with win 7 will receive updates to use the new features, so if a company wants newer hardware and win 7,they could buy these devices. But these devices would mybe not receive all updates for new features, if the updates would harm normal win 7 computers.

[Jack Torrance]

Originally Posted by Ralph Sir Edward

And the walls are being build stronger and higher...

In my day they had a manual shutoff for the fuel and points ignition and that's the way I liked it.

Progress has a price.

[Greg Anos]

Originally Posted by Jack Torrance

In my day they had a manual shutoff for the fuel and points ignition and that's the way I liked it.

Progress has a price.

If you want the product, feel free to pay the price.

Just don't suddenly say - I shocked, shocked, to find I'm locked into a platform...

[Sweetpea]

Originally Posted by Ralph Sir Edward

If you want the product, feel free to pay the price.

Just don't suddenly say - I shocked, shocked, to find I'm locked into a platform...

I've been locked into my platform for a long time now. I have too many programs and games that only run in Windows. Some might have a linux or apple (whatever their os is called) version, but I'd have to rebuy them.

[HarryT]

Originally Posted by Sweetpea

I've been locked into my platform for a long time now. I have too many programs and games that only run in Windows. Some might have a linux or apple (whatever their os is called) version, but I'd have to rebuy them.

Precisely. People buy PCs to run applications; the overwhelming majority don't give a damn what version of an operating system it's running.

[rcentros]

Originally Posted by dickloraine

Maybe this link helps:
https://blogs.windows.com/windowsexp...on-innovation/

That is the original post by microsoft. If I understand that correctly, than you could use new processors with win 7, but without using the new features of the processors. It could be even slower than using an older one. A limited number of devices with win 7 will receive updates to use the new features, so if a company wants newer hardware and win 7,they could buy these devices. But these devices would mybe not receive all updates for new features, if the updates would harm normal win 7 computers.

No, you're misreading it (it's kind of hard to get through the sales' hype). Here are salient points -- bullet points quoted directly from your linked article ...

...Thus, today we are clarifying our Windows support policy:

Windows 7 will continue to be supported for security, reliability, and compatibility through January 14, 2020 on previous generation silicon. Windows 8.1 will receive the same support through January 10, 2023. This includes most of the devices available for purchase today by consumers or enterprises.

Going forward, as new silicon generations are introduced, they will require the latest Windows platform at that time for support. This enables us to focus on deep integration between Windows and the silicon, while maintaining maximum reliability and compatibility with previous generations of platform and silicon. For example, Windows 10 will be the only supported Windows platform on Intel’s upcoming “Kaby Lake” silicon, Qualcomm’s upcoming “8996” silicon, and AMD’s upcoming “Bristol Ridge” silicon.

Through July 17, 2017, Skylake devices on the supported list will also be supported with Windows 7 and 8.1. During the 18-month support period, these systems should be upgraded to Windows 10 to continue receiving support after the period ends. After July 2017, the most critical Windows 7 and Windows 8.1 security updates will be addressed for these configurations, and will be released if the update does not risk the reliability or compatibility of the Windows 7/8.1 platform on other devices.

(Emphasis mine.)

Skylake is a currently sold CPU "family." Even with current CPUs (and only on certain PCs) Windows 7 and Windows 8.1 will only be supported for another 18 months. The future CPU families, Kaby Lake, Bristol Ridge and 8996 (from Intel, AMD and Qualcomm) will never have Windows 7 and 8.1 support. Period. So you won't be able to use Windows 7 or 8.1 on the newest computers -- even if you buy them before support ends for these two OSes. Microsoft has never done anything like this before.

[rcentros]

Originally Posted by HarryT

Precisely. People buy PCs to run applications; the overwhelming majority don't give a damn what version of an operating system it's running.

And if legacy applications don't run on Windows 10, you're pretty much screwed -- IF you want to use the newest hardware.

[rcentros]

Originally Posted by Jack Torrance

Progress has a price.

In this case, what you mean is, a monopoly almost completely controlling the desktop has a price. If Windows 7 satisfactorily runs your applications, how is it "progress" to demand customers move to Windows 10?