Self-published books

[eschwartz]

Originally Posted by MikeB1972

Moving the goalposts, how very dare you

I am just "clarifying" () that I don't consider it entirely impressive that a known existing hit (comic books) received enough publisher attention that someone took a chance on a novelization.

Anyway, I never said there are zero such tradpub books, just that they seem to be sufficiently rare that I can't really think of any.

Mostly you have a problem of what you class as a superhero novel though. You can't just use superhuman abilities or the entire Urban Fantasy genre probably gets counted, along with genetically/technologically modified characters. You could easily include Doc Savage, The Shadow, The Spider and a ton of other material dating back to the 50's. Do they need to have some superhuman abilities - If so explain Batman .

Well, Batman *is* a superhero, of a kind.

I think you can often tell the difference between Urban Fantasy and Superhero fiction, based on the way the characters behave.
It might really just be a matter of authorial fiat. If it is all in the characters' behavior

It is a superhero story if characters are expected to live up to the characteristics of the superhero archetype.
It is a superhero story if people gain their powers through radiation, strange Takisian/other viruses, "breakthroughs", etc... it is not a superhero story if people are born to a generic segment of the populace that have xxx hereditary powers.
As for the genetically modified, that in and of itself doesn't seem to be strong proof for or against.

Off the top of my head for new characters you have :-
Larry Correia's Grimnoir series.

Funky magic system, but seems to be fairly standard Urban Fantasy otherwise.

Kelly Meding's Metawars Series

Yes, and this is actually on my TBR.

Christopher L Bennett's Only Superhuman

This seems to be genetically-modified-breasts + paramilitary... something.
I don't think I would want to read it, it may lose a few points for whatever genre it gets categorized as.

Brandon Sanderson's Reckoners Series

An amazing inversion, and trust Brandon to write an amazing series about an unconventional topic!
Inversions count.

Kathy Reichs' Virals (Not read it)

Sort-of-werewolves detective/forensic mystery

G T Almasi's Shadowstorm Series

Genetically modified spies, not sure this counts...

Myke Cole's Shadowops

Sounds like Urban/Military Fantasy, not superheroes.

Not sure if these should be classed
Steven Gould's Jumper series
Deborah Christian's Mainline
Peter Clines Ex-Heroes

Nope. Dystopian and one-person-has-a-weird-ability-but-isn't-a-hero.


...

...


You can usually tell the difference by the way people act, most of this stuff is better classified as UF.

What self-pub ones would you recommend BTW

Honestly, I haven't read a lot of it, but it is an interesting topic.

I'd love to hear what other people recommend, if anyone has any recommendations...

But I have read a few things.

• Marion G. Harmon's Wearing the Cape series is fabulous!
• I also liked Chelsea M. Campbell's Renegade X series.
• And Richard Roberts' Please Don't Tell My Parents... (I'm a Supervillain, I Blew Up the Moon, I've Got Henchmen).
• High on my TBR (I will probably start it sometime this week or next week) is Lexie Dunne's Superheroes Anonymous, which sounds quite interesting. But this is pulished by HarperCollins, whoops!
• I am taking a small gamble on C. J. Carella's New Olympus Saga.
• I also have my eye on Logan Rutherford's The First Superhero (the first super was a villain ). Sounds like an interesting premise.
• Tom Reynolds' Meta was not bad, but nothing special. I may have to read the next book to see if it got any better, but it just didn't strike a chord in me.

...

I like my lighthearted, possibly-comedy superheroes. Now, Wearing the Cape manages to be a very serious book while also being lighthearted. Err, assuming that is possible of course...

[MikeB1972]

Originally Posted by eschwartz

I think you can often tell the difference between Urban Fantasy and Superhero fiction, based on the way the characters behave.
It might really just be a matter of authorial fiat. If it is all in the characters' behavior

Still hard to classify though
Steven Strange must count so why not Harry Dresden?

Originally Posted by eschwartz

It is a superhero story if characters are expected to live up to the characteristics of the superhero archetype.
It is a superhero story if people gain their powers through radiation, strange Takisian/other viruses, "breakthroughs", etc

Hey, you discounted Shadowops.

Originally Posted by eschwartz

it is not a superhero story if people are born to a generic segment of the populace that have xxx hereditary powers.
As for the genetically modified, that in and of itself doesn't seem to be strong proof for or against.

And there are a ton of existing superheroes who wouldn't count
No Powers - Green Arrow, Hawkeye, Batman, Black Canary, Black Widow, Green Hornet - Maybe we can count anyone who calls themselves The Primary Colour Thingy or Animal Name Thingy , we can discount The Punisher as just being a gun-nut.
Magical/Demonic - Steven Strange, Constantine, Vandal Savage, Ghost Rider, The Shadow, Hellboy, Spawn
Hi Tech - Iron Man, The Atom, Ant Man

And where do James Bond, Judge Dredd and Danger Mouse stand

If you can find the 2 Mel Odom books, well worth a superhero type read.
If you haven't read the Grimnoir stuff I'd give it a go, very superhero feel to it.

Cheers for the recommends

[fjtorres]

Originally Posted by eschwartz

[*]Tom Reynolds' Meta was not bad, but nothing special. I may have to read the next book to see if it got any better, but it just didn't strike a chord in me.

I rather liked the second volume.
We get to see more of other Metas, how the bands work, and the way the government deals with the situation.

Superhero fiction is to an extent of the "I know it when I see it" kind but there are a lot of baseline cues that define the classic forms and yes, the character's behavior is number one. Put on a costume and take a code name? It's a superhero. The fun starts when the character or story diverges from the traditional forms and archetypes.

With Meta, the intriguing aspect of his mythology is the bands, literally falling through the sky and attaching themself to (random?) people creating both heroes and villains depending on the person's inclination. The implied promise is that the mystery will be explained as the series proceeds. I'm curious enough to stick around.

The writing is clean YA prose, no wordsmithing gimmicks, and he plays off most of the standard secret Identity tropes, with a twist or two. For example, it is the protagonist who frets about somebody else being a secret meta. It a generally fun frothy diversion...

...and a good example of the kind of good indie material no tradpub would bother with; it's no GLADIATOR or SUPER FOLKS, it simply takes standard tropes and plays with them. Not likely to sell a million, redefine the genre or anything like that. But it is better than a lot of the stories in the mainstream comics in 2015 (a pretty bad year, admittedly) for less than a typical floppy.

Not a bad buy if you're into the genre.

[fjtorres]

Originally Posted by MikeB1972

Still hard to classify though
Steven Strange must count so why not Harry Dresden?

Costume.
The world he lives in.
The crowd he hangs around with: Hulk, Namor, Iron Man, Reed Richards, Professor Xavier...
He even wore a mask for a while.

Dresden hangs around mages, demons, mystical entities...
No mask, no costume, no fancy title.
He's just himself.

[fjtorres]

Originally Posted by darryl

@Rizla. Another former anonymous Amazon employee?

And one who doesn't seem to know Howie is an indie with a limited print-only deal with S&S and is not published by Amazon.

More, I'd be shocked if actual KU staffers were unaware that KU is all about giving extra exposure to Indies that choose to be Amazon exclusive. Or that the lack of many big tradpub titles is a feature, not a bug.

I'd discount it just on those grounds, but that's just me thinking that having around a million exclusive titles delivering more income to authors than Nook, Kobo, Google, and probably Apple is a pretty good reason for Amazon to be doing KU.

And around a million titles to choose from isn't a bad deal for heavy readers open to exploring Indies.

The business case is strong for Amazon and the authors who participate.
Reader value?
All a matter of taste.

[theducks]

Originally Posted by fjtorres

Costume.
The world he lives in.
The crowd he hangs around with: Hulk, Namor, Iron Man, Reed Richards, Professor Xavier...
He even wore a mask for a while.

Dresden hangs around mages, demons, mystical entities...
No mask, no costume, no fancy title.
He's just himself.

But he carries a Big Stick

[eschwartz]

Originally Posted by fjtorres

I rather liked the second volume.
We get to see more of other Metas, how the bands work, and the way the government deals with the situation.

Noted.

I am always rather interested in how the government reacts -- Wearing the Cape goes into this a lot.
(Vigilantes are a government's worst nightmare... in the real world this would usually become a three-way war. )

The writing is clean YA prose, no wordsmithing gimmicks, and he plays off most of the standard secret Identity tropes, with a twist or two. For example, it is the protagonist who frets about somebody else being a secret meta. It a generally fun frothy diversion...

...and a good example of the kind of good indie material no tradpub would bother with; it's no GLADIATOR or SUPER FOLKS, it simply takes standard tropes and plays with them. Not likely to sell a million, redefine the genre or anything like that. But it is better than a lot of the stories in the mainstream comics in 2015 (a pretty bad year, admittedly) for less than a typical floppy.

Not a bad buy if you're into the genre.

I should definitely clarify, that I don't regret paying money for it.

I read it when there was only one book.
As I said, it wasn't bad -- it just didn't grab me, and there were no sequels yet. Maybe you could call it "comfortable indie midlist".
I think this may have been shortly after reading Wearing the Cape Book 1, which I may have mentioned I really liked; possibly, it just didn't do well in comparison (which is an unfair judgment).

There are definitely worse members of the genre -- I've read some of them, and wouldn't contaminate this thread by mentioning them!

This? I think it was decently written, which is of course the first standard to look at.
And I liked the storyline enough that I will most likely finish it. I like (eventually) finishing a series that I started, assuming it meets a certain basic level of enjoyment. But, it wasn't one of the books that go on my "authors to pre-order" list...
I am also open to the possibility that a) I was biased when I read it, or b) it will grow on me; therefore I may still revise my ranking.

If I thought it wasn't worth looking at, I wouldn't have mentioned it at all.

[fjtorres]

Originally Posted by theducks

But he carries a Big Stick

He's a hockey coach, of course.
Two many teeth to be a player...

[Atunah]

I have KU. If I didn't want to read indies in the program, I wouldn't have to. There actually are 1000's and 1000's of publisher books in the program. And I also enjoy the heck out of a lot of the amazon imprints books. They got some big names in one of the imprints I like reading. They also have bought up a couple of publishers which meant back list titles.

And there are a selected group of indies that are in the program that are excellent. Of course, I don't go randomly browsing in there, can't find anything that way. I just keep adding stuff to a wishlist I can access from my kindle. I been nursing that wishlist for a while so it has a lot of recommendations on it. Over 300, which would keep me busy for a while.

For big publishers I use their sales and the library.

Interesting is the tidbit, assuming its not just hogwash, about them trying to get 50 shades.
I read 50 shades in October 2011. I borrowed it from someone through the kindle borrow system. At the time the book was not with a big publisher yet, but the smaller one that initially had it (The Writers Coffee Shop), which is why it was borrow-able still. In November 2011 Amazon announced their first imprint Montlake for romances. So I guess the time like rings true if they did actually try to get that book. They ended up launching Montlake with Connie Brockway, great author, big name in the genre.

But to say that its just garbage in KU is just not true. At least not anymore. Now I did cancel KU the first time when all the short porn pamphlets flooded in because of the silly payout. But once they changed that, lots more novels came in and its been a lot of fun. But again, one cannot normally browse, at least in the genres I read as its full of a lot of scammers right now in romance stuffing the titles and keywords and putting up garbled garbage.

I just check recommended books on goodreads and it tells me there right away if its in KU, if it is, goes on the wishlist.
Hey, I got KU for 5.99 a month for 2 years in July so I find enough a month to make it worth while. I read more books a month anyway than just KU books so there is that.

[eschwartz]

Originally Posted by MikeB1972

Still hard to classify though
Steven Strange must count so why not Harry Dresden?

As fjtorres said, I guess?

Hey, you discounted Shadowops.

It had some things indicative of and classic to superheroes, but it still fails the ultimate behavior test, I think.

And there are a ton of existing superheroes who wouldn't count
No Powers - Green Arrow, Hawkeye, Batman, Black Canary, Black Widow, Green Hornet - Maybe we can count anyone who calls themselves The Primary Colour Thingy or Animal Name Thingy , we can discount The Punisher as just being a gun-nut.
Magical/Demonic - Steven Strange, Constantine, Vandal Savage, Ghost Rider, The Shadow, Hellboy, Spawn
Hi Tech - Iron Man, The Atom, Ant Man

Again, it ultimately rests on their behavior.
And the Badass Normal of the superhero world absolutely counts.

And where do James Bond, Judge Dredd and Danger Mouse stand

No, no, and maybe but superspies vs. superheroes is a soft boundary?

Cheers for the recommends

Sure thing.

[Fbone]

Originally Posted by eschwartz

Honestly, I haven't read a lot of it, but it is an interesting topic.

I'd love to hear what other people recommend, if anyone has any recommendations...

But I have read a few things.

• Marion G. Harmon's Wearing the Cape series is fabulous!
• I also liked Chelsea M. Campbell's Renegade X series.
• And Richard Roberts' Please Don't Tell My Parents... (I'm a Supervillain, I Blew Up the Moon, I've Got Henchmen).
• High on my TBR (I will probably start it sometime this week or next week) is Lexie Dunne's Superheroes Anonymous, which sounds quite interesting. But this is pulished by HarperCollins, whoops!
• I am taking a small gamble on C. J. Carella's New Olympus Saga.
• I also have my eye on Logan Rutherford's The First Superhero (the first super was a villain ). Sounds like an interesting premise.
• Tom Reynolds' Meta was not bad, but nothing special. I may have to read the next book to see if it got any better, but it just didn't strike a chord in me.

...

I like my lighthearted, possibly-comedy superheroes. Now, Wearing the Cape manages to be a very serious book while also being lighthearted. Err, assuming that is possible of course...

It would be great if you posted this and other books you've read in the What-are-you-reading thread. We are always on the lookout for recommendations.

[fjtorres]

Originally Posted by eschwartz

I am always rather interested in how the government reacts -- Wearing the Cape goes into this a lot.
(Vigilantes are a government's worst nightmare... in the real world this would usually become a three-way war. )

Suicide Squad vs Justice League.
John Ostrander absolutely nailed it when he re-created the Squad as Dirty Dozen black ops group.
Really stoked for the movie because the trailer hit all the right buttons to those in the know. From the casting of Waller to the doe-eyed look of June Moon the subtleties are in the trailer. Not sure of Will Smith as Lawton, he's too clean cut for the role and I don't think he can sell Lawton's deathwish.

Apropos to the thread, Indie fiction in the mainstream prose world may be new but in comics it is old hat, going back decades. And Ostrander comes out of that world and it showed right away when DC picked him up. He immediately brought an entirely new, ground level look to the genre, from the SUICIDE SQUAD to FIRESTORM.
LEGENDS was and remains one of the best company wide crossover series ever and one of the few where the ending satisfied.

Fresh blood is always a good thing and you don't usually find too much freshness in the corporate world.

[JSWolf]

The problem with self-published eBooks at Amazon is that you cannot easily tell the faked reviews vs. the real reviews. So you don't know if the book is any good or not because the reviews could be faked. I might tend to believe the reviews more if only people who bought the eBook were allowed to review. That means there's a chance of the reviewers actually having read the book. But as it stands now, I can go to Amazon and write a review for an eBook I've not bought.

Anyone want to buy my reviews?

[John F]

Originally Posted by JSWolf

The problem with self-published eBooks at Amazon is that you cannot easily tell the faked reviews vs. the real reviews. So you don't know if the book is any good or not because the reviews could be faked. I might tend to believe the reviews more if only people who bought the eBook were allowed to review. That means there's a chance of the reviewers actually having read the book. But as it stands now, I can go to Amazon and write a review for an eBook I've not bought.

Anyone want to buy my reviews?

For those who are interested, you can look at reviews that say "Verified Purchase".

[Cinisajoy]

Jon,
You sound like one of those authors that got one bad review. Or oh boohoo someone else got a 5 star and their book is worse than mine.

Note: products of all types can be bought elsewhere.
The problem with the fake reviews is most say verified purchases. And yes they are very easy to tell.
90% of the time, they start with Mr or Mrs last name has written the greatest book on exact book title.
Also look at the phrasing.
And it should be easy to tell the reviewers that got the books from the authors.
The Federal Trade Commission requires that reviewers state that they got the book in exchange for a review.
My problem with reviewing is trying not to include spoilers.