Self-published books

[dickloraine]

How should we find a not published book, that has won prizes? How do we know, which books would have been great, if we don't know of them, because... They were not published? What thompe askes for is in itself not answerable, especially if every book that is trad pubed after it was self published counts for the trads too. I think Harry Potter is a great example, because it was eventually picked up by a publisher outside of the expertise for the genre. All publishers specialized in children books rejected it. That should be the publishers recognizing that kind of book. And why? Not because the book was bad, but because it was to long.

Likewise in germany. Harry Potter was here published by a comic book publisher, who could only print hardcovers. He later used the Harry Potter money to build paperback facilities. And the Lord of the Rings was published in germany by a publisher who specialized in non fiction, school books and maps (who now has a small imprint for high quality fantasy).

[Cinisajoy]

I found a book the other day.
The Hunter by Gennita Low. The paperback and hardback are Avon Books. I do believe that is a HarperCollins imprint.
The ebook is published by Glow World.
So is Ms. Low traditional, self-published or both and how would one know if they just looked at one format?
The book was great.

[fjtorres]

Originally Posted by dickloraine

How should we find a not published book, that has won prizes? How do we know, which books would have been great, if we don't know of them, because... They were not published? What thompe askes for is in itself not answerable, especially if every book that is trad pubed after it was self published counts for the trads too. I think Harry Potter is a great example, because it was eventually picked up by a publisher outside of the expertise for the genre. All publishers specialized in children books rejected it. That should be the publishers recognizing that kind of book. And why? Not because the book was bad, but because it was to long.

Likewise in germany. Harry Potter was here published by a comic book publisher, who could only print hardcovers. He later used the Harry Potter money to build paperback facilities. And the Lord of the Rings was published in germany by a publisher who specialized in non fiction, school books and maps (who now has a small imprint for high quality fantasy).

DUNE was rejected by all the publishers around and only saw the market through the graces of an editor at CHILTON, they of the auto parts catalogs.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chilton_Company

Hardly the only example.
In fact, here's 14 other, similar stories:

http://io9.gizmodo.com/5668053/15-cl...shers-rejected

If indie publishing were viable then, how many of those authors would've gone indie?

These folks did:

http://www.simonteakettle.com/famousauthors.htm

Self-pub/Tradpub has nothing to do with quality.
It is simply a business decision about how to bring the product to market. Kinda like deciding whether to ship something by rail, road, or air; how it gets to the store says nothing about the product, only how much the creator/manufacturer chose to pay to get it there.

[tompe]

Originally Posted by DiapDealer

"Really good" and "prize winning" are not actually synonyms.

Sometime it is like in the case of Ancillary Justice.

But that was why I wrote "and so on". People should understand what I mean.

[Cinisajoy]

Originally Posted by tompe

Sometime it is like in the case of Ancillary Justice.

But that was why I wrote "and so on". People should understand what I mean.

Oh so people should understand that you meant something you didn't actually say.
I noticed everyone read your comment as prize winning even though your tablet or phone typed a different word.
So what exactly are you looking for?

[issybird]

Originally Posted by Cinisajoy

Oh so people should understand that you meant something you didn't actually say.
I noticed everyone read your comment as prize winning even though your tablet or phone typed a different word.
So what exactly are you looking for?

I just wish I were as fluent and wrote so well in a language other than English as our non-Anglophone members manage in English! I really don't like to see criticisms of other posters' English. Who here is without fault?

[BearMountainBooks]

Originally Posted by dickloraine

How should we find a not published book, that has won prizes? How do we know, which books would have been great, if we don't know of them, because... They were not published? What thompe askes for is in itself not answerable, especially if every book that is trad pubed after it was self published counts for the trads too...school books and maps (who now has a small imprint for high quality fantasy).

Actually you can find books that have placed or won prizes that were never published. The CWA Debut Dagger Award (and the shortlist) is just ONE of many awards for unpublished works. In some cases, the winner of that award was picked up by a publisher. In other cases, the book was not. Before I self-published, I used to enter such contests (after careful vetting to make sure they weren't nonsense contests designed to bilk the writer.) MOST contests of this nature had a publishing contract for the winner, but there were many times when a book did not end up being published (sometimes because those running the contests ran out of funds. Sometimes the contract was not that good so an author opted to use the win to get an agent and try for a better deal.)

Kobo ran a contest last year for a romance publisher/contract. The winner was to be published by that publisher. That does not mean that the author accepted the contract (I don't know if they did or didn't).

So it is actually answerable to some extent if you went on a writer's forum and asked the writers about various awards they may have won or "almost contracts." I have at least 3 short stories that were under contract that were never published (usually because the magazine ran out of money or the anthology was dropped. In one case, the publisher died.) I think I have published all three of those short stories now, so they are in fact published, but you get the idea.

This is not to take away from the argument for or against self-publishing or for or against better search engines. I do not think Amazon will improve the search engine by allowing exclusions for the simple reason: they make quite a bit of money from indie sales. It may be more of a growth market (from a revenue standpoint) than trad books because Amazon has more control over royalties, advertising, payouts and the like with indies.

I do feel that self-publishing has fallen out of vogue with many readers, especially compared to five years ago.

[Conan46]

Lots of complaints about self-publishing, it has its downside, but I keep thinking about the person who wants to write a book about an obscure subject that might only have a few thousand readers. There is no way to get a traditional publisher interested in anything without the hope of tons of readers. So for those rare souls who have an interest in the obscure, self-publishing opens the door for them.

[darryl]

Originally Posted by tompe

Good and worthy? I asked for "really good" books. I am talking about price winning books, and so on. Give me some titles of these really good books that was missed by traditional publishing.

The things is that even if a really good book is not right for every publisher so some publisher might turn it down it is the case that the editors will recognize a really good book and not miss it.

And if it fits in there plans they will publish it.

You have been given examples to the extent that it is practical to give such examples. I also wonder how many literary prizes, even now, consider self-published books?

By the way, the big publishers don't have any "price wining books", only agency priced ones!

[Cinisajoy]

Originally Posted by issybird

I just wish I were as fluent and wrote so well in a language other than English as our non-Anglophone members manage in English! I really don't like to see criticisms of other posters' English. Who here is without fault?

He had said people should understand what he meant. So I was actually asking what he wanted since he had said something about wanting really good, prize winning books that I think had been originally turned down by publishers.
His tablet had put price not prize. I knew that was an auto type problem because mine did the same thing when I originally posted.

So if he would please clarify what types of books, he wants to find it would help.
So it wasn't about his English but his saying we should understand what he meant.

[darryl]

Originally Posted by Cinisajoy

He had said people should understand what he meant. So I was actually asking what he wanted since he had said something about wanting really good, prize winning books that I think had been originally turned down by publishers.
His tablet had put price not prize. I knew that was an auto type problem because mine did the same thing when I originally posted.

So if he would please clarify what types of books, he wants to find it would help.
So it wasn't about his English but his saying we should understand what he meant.

I saw nothing making fun of Tompe's English. Clearly the implication that we should somehow understand what he means speaks for itself. Criticising this is nothing to do with his English. And we all understand "price" instead of "prize" was a typo or automatic correction. I did choose to have a little fun with this, but it is not about his English.

Personally I am part of that vast number of mono-lingual English speakers, and I am not proud of it. I applaud the efforts of our members not fluent in English.

[Rizla]

I read this comment on reddit. It's about KU, but it seems relevant. The whole thread seems relevant actually.

Kindle Unlimited -- does anybody think it's worth it?

Worked at amazon in kindle when KU launched. I don't care to offer you proof, so take my info or leave it; KU: It's not worth it. Even the team that developed this couldn't get their heads around where the value was because it doesn't include huge numbers of big titles and best sellers. A lot of the content is just from amazons own publishing arm, which is known to create only a few big hits (Hugh Howie, etc). KU is basically a repository or channel for most amazon publishing content that is generally not very high quality. Amazon publishing has been racing to redeem itself because it had overlooked fifty shades of grey which initially came to A-Pub but was overlooked. Since then, A-pub has been willing to produce almost anything from street writers with the fear of missing the next equivalent hit.

TLDR: amazons own publishing arm generates garbage content in general; Kindle Unlimited is the garbage dump that charges readers a $10/mth fee.

[darryl]

@Rizla. Another former anonymous Amazon employee? It doesn't of course mean that what is said is necessarily wrong, but it certainly does suggest caution. I must say that the attitude in the post you quoted is also very short-sighted and limited in relation to an innovative product in its very early stages.

Looking at some of the Reddit thread indicates what I expected it would. That is, some like KU and regard it as good value. Others think it is a waste and full of garbage. I would encourage people to form their own judgements. Some of you it will suit, some not.

[darryl]

Originally Posted by eschwartz

Well, to fine-tune the analogy, I think shopper #2 probably complained that he would never buy from that store again -- he would only buy from the boutique store over in the city -- a store which only carries pedigree avocados *purported* to be guaranteed 100% ripe.

Of course, even that store had its misses. But when that happened, the store manager told him with a smile that these were special avocados and you are supposed to eat them that way.

I came across your above post again and realised I had not responded. Thanks for "fine-tuning" and extending the analogy. I was a little hasty and had left it slightly broken. Better to have dealt with other stores, as you did, or perhaps with different palettes, though fortunately the point does appear to have been communicated successfully despite my lapse. I thought both the "special avocados" and the condescending advice as to how one should eat avocados were very nice touches.

[eschwartz]

Originally Posted by darryl

I came across your above post again and realised I had not responded. Thanks for "fine-tuning" and extending the analogy. I was a little hasty and had left it slightly broken. Better to have dealt with other stores, as you did, or perhaps with different palettes, though fortunately the point does appear to have been communicated successfully despite my lapse. I thought both the "special avocados" and the condescending advice as to how one should eat avocados were very nice touches.

You're welcome.

I am just awesome that way.