New version of DRM removal tools ("DeDRM")

[JSWolf]

Originally Posted by pdurrant

It might lead to the demise of DRM (as I suggest above), but it wouldn't harm Amazon significantly. They'd just unilaterally state that any ebooks sold at Amazon now had to be DRM-free. Publishers would just have to comply, or see a large ( 50%? 70%? 90%?) drop in their ebook sales in the short term.

The publishers could stick to "either we sell with DRM or we don't sell at Amazon". Sure they might see a decline short term, but long term they'd see a shift from Amazon to ePub. Given the attitudes of some of the BPHs, I don't think they'd mind the short term drop in sales just to be able to stick it to Amazon.

[DuckieTigger]

Originally Posted by JSWolf

The publishers could stick to "either we sell with DRM or we don't sell at Amazon". Sure they might see a decline short term, but long term they'd see a shift from Amazon to ePub. Given the attitudes of some of the BPHs, I don't think they'd mind the short term drop in sales just to be able to stick it to Amazon.

And who is supposed to pick up the slack and start selling epubs? If a publisher stops selling at Amazon, the jumping ship can easily mean that from now on their former readers find something else to read on Amazon.

[JSWolf]

Originally Posted by DuckieTigger

And who is supposed to pick up the slack and start selling epubs? If a publisher stops selling at Amazon, the jumping ship can easily mean that from now on their former readers find something else to read on Amazon.

Start selling ePubs? There are lots of places selling ePub like Kobo & Google to name two.

If all the publishers who currently use DRM jumped ship from Amazon, customers will too. There's no way what's left could sustain Amazon's eBook business.

[jhowell]

Originally Posted by JSWolf

There is a very simple way to take down Amazon's eBook empire. It doesn't require fiddling with pricing. All they have to do is make their ePub eBooks DRM free. Then Amazon would be the ones selling DRMed eBooks and people would jump ship.

I doubt that other e-book vendors going DRM-free would affect Amazon much. They seem happy to be moving in the other direction.

Amazon's dominance of the e-book market leads them to a different strategy with DRM. They can use it to keep customers within their walled garden in order to maintain their market share. Having a large selection of both books and reading devices/apps allows them to get away with this when other vendors could not.

The KFX format, introduced for e-books this year, uses strong encryption to prevent books from being moved outside of the Amazon ecosystem. Unrestricted books can be moved between devices and across accounts, but can only be read using an Amazon device or app. So even if a publisher wants to sell e-books DRM-free on Amazon they won't be able to do so.

Currently there are still ways that customers can avoid KFX and get true DRM-free copies of Amazon-sold e-books. If I am correct then Amazon will take steps to reduce the opportunities for customers to avoid KFX and gain control of the books they buy.

[soulfuldog]

Can someone enlighten me as to what JSWolf's fantasy about taking down Amazon's eBook empire realistically has to do with a possible DRM-free future?

[Katsunami]

Originally Posted by jhowell

Currently there are still ways that customers can avoid KFX and get true DRM-free copies of Amazon-sold e-books. If I am correct then Amazon will take steps to reduce the opportunities for customers to avoid KFX and gain control of the books they buy.

The same is true for ADE version 2.x. It still works, so books can still be de-DRM'd, but at some point in time, the switch will be thrown so only ADE 3.x books will be delivered to customers.

This is one of the reasons why I am (have been) using Kobo coupons to buy every book under the sun which I *might* find interesting. It could be that in the future, I and many others would be stuck with the books we have if we don't want to buy DRM-locked content. In the very least, it can happen that we aren't able to buy some of the books we would otherwise have bought.

In the end, it doesn't really matter. I already have around 800 to be read books, of which 57 are Delphi-classics, each containing many books; sometimes up to 20 novels. Thats up to 2000 books to read. At my current speed of around 30 books a year, this stack would last me for 67 years. And, there are still Delphi Classics I'd buy as soon as they are released in the EU (HG Wells, for example), and I have hundreds of Feedbooks PD-books...

[GoSharks]

@soulfuldog-

Did you just manage to use "JSWolf", "Amazon" and "realistically" all in the same sentence?.... You are a master word-smith!!!!

[Wearever]

Someday hopefully in my life time, I'd like to hear the words " Remember when they had DRM on e books ? "

[jhowell]

Originally Posted by Katsunami

The same is true for ADE version 2.x. It still works, so books can still be de-DRM'd, but at some point in time, the switch will be thrown so only ADE 3.x books will be delivered to customers.

I agree that Adobe also has strong reasons to continue enhancing their DRM, since that is the primary selling point of ADE.

Vendors want to make the process of removing DRM just difficult enough that most people won't bother. It won't stop e-book piracy, but it will prevent casual sharing and enforce customer lock-in.


For KFX a case can be made that it was engineered specifically for DRM:

• It requires multiple files per book, making it incompatible with popular e-book managers in its raw form.
  
• All books have strong encryption, even if they are allowed to be shared between users and Kindle devices.
  
• Images are stored in the obscure JPEG-XR format, hindering conversion.
  
• This is more speculative, but it appears that the actual book contents may be more like a reflowable PDF than an EPUB, making it difficult to render outside of Amazon's ecosystem or to convert to a more open format.

(I may be over analysing it. An argument can be made that these features all serve other purposes.)

[eschwartz]

Originally Posted by JSWolf

There is a very simple way to take down Amazon's eBook empire. It doesn't require fiddling with pricing. All they have to do is make their ePub eBooks DRM free. Then Amazon would be the ones selling DRMed eBooks and people would jump ship.

Originally Posted by JSWolf

The publishers could stick to "either we sell with DRM or we don't sell at Amazon". Sure they might see a decline short term, but long term they'd see a shift from Amazon to ePub. Given the attitudes of some of the BPHs, I don't think they'd mind the short term drop in sales just to be able to stick it to Amazon.

Originally Posted by soulfuldog

Can someone enlighten me as to what JSWolf's fantasy about taking down Amazon's eBook empire realistically has to do with a possible DRM-free future?

I am not so sure he actually does want to take down Amazon.

Now, I know JSWolf is legendary for his anti-Amazon rhetoric but this latest comment has really opened my eyes.
If you look carefully, what he is saying seems designed to bait the BPHs into making another mistake like the one the DoJ already got involved in.

I am not 100% positive, but it is possible JSWolf is really an undercover mole -- with really, really deep cover.

[JoHunt]

Originally Posted by JSWolf

There is a very simple way to take down Amazon's eBook empire. It doesn't require fiddling with pricing. All they have to do is make their ePub eBooks DRM free. Then Amazon would be the ones selling DRMed eBooks and people would jump ship.

Realistically the number of Amazon's customers who care about DRM is probably minuscule. They buy a book and start reading it on one of the millions of Kindles/Fires sold. I doubt they even care what format the book is in. What difference would it make to them if the book was in ePub format?

[DiapDealer]

Originally Posted by JoHunt

What difference would it make to them if the book was in ePub format?

It wouldn't.
Those who care about formats have already chosen a side. Those who don't, have no idea about formats/DRM in the first place.

[JSWolf]

Some chose Amazon because the DRM is easier to deal with. But if they could go DRM free, they'd drop Amazon for DRM free ePub.

I'm just trying to give the publishers a good reason to go DRM free.

[Difflugia]

Originally Posted by jhowell

(I may be over analysing it. An argument can be made that these features all serve other purposes.)

I don't think you are. Every time Amazon has added a new format, it's been wrapped in some sort of obfuscation, even when it's an existing format under the hood (AZW3 is epub, AZW4 is PDF).

I think the goal is to keep people using Kindles. If you convert your Amazon book to another format and read it on another device, Amazon no longer receives information about how you're reading your books. Kindle Unlimited relies on that kind of information, but as far as I know, didn't require any firmware updates to work. That means Kindles were collecting detailed enough information for KU in the first place. I don't think that's really a surprise to anyone, but I think it's been underestimated how valuable that information is to Amazon's marketing strategies. If a significant fraction of readers stop providing information to Amazon, that will affect the quality of Amazon's data and it looks to me like they're being proactive in trying to thwart that.

I don't think Amazon really gives a hoot about DRM as such, but ebook containers that are difficult to convert also happen to have the same qualities that make for strong DRM.

[DiapDealer]

Originally Posted by JSWolf

Some chose Amazon because the DRM is easier to deal with. But if they could go DRM free, they'd drop Amazon for DRM free ePub.

A very teeny, tiny--probably microscopic--demographic made their decision where to buy based on how generous or restrictive the DRM was. Small enough that neither Amazon nor the Publishers need to worry about factoring them into their decisions.