Adequacy of EPUB?

[HarryT]

Originally Posted by Sarmat89

That code is device-dependent, and works only in ADE (and in none of my readers—some of them fail to open that file at all.)

There is nothing remotely device-dependent or non-standard about it. It's done simply by increasing or decreasing the left-margin setting for each successive line of the poem, an operation which every ePub reader should support.

Which reader will not open the file?

[Jellby]

Originally Posted by HarryT

Which reader will not open the file?

And would these readers do better with a yet-to-be-defined format?

[eschwartz]

Originally Posted by Sarmat89

That code is device-dependent, and works only in ADE (and in none of my readers—some of them fail to open that file at all.)

It was proven yet again that imitating the book layout should be relegated to PDF.

Since you seem determined to spread vague, ill-defined complaints against every reasonable suggestion, I don't really expect this to work... but why don't you at least tell us what ereaders you have and are testing against?
As has now been pointed out multiple times. But hey, once more can't hurt.
It is difficult to have a meaningful conversation when one party continually refuses to engage the other with concrete information at hand.

If nothing else, it is common courtesy to fill out your profile info block:

---E-Book Device---
Your (prospective) e-book device. To make it easier to help you with (future) problems,
please enter the name and model. If you haven't decided yet just enter none.

________________________

[Sarmat89]

Originally Posted by HarryT

Which reader will not open the file?

CoolReader 3.

[eschwartz]

Originally Posted by Sarmat89

CoolReader 3.

You said it doesn't work in multiple ereaders. What are the other ones that you say failed?

Regarding Coolreader itself, how interesting.

Originally Posted by RbnJrg

Just curious, what readers? Besides ADE, I can open (and read without troubles) that epub in Azardi, Readium, EPUBReader, PocketBook Reader, Kobo, Mantano, Gitden and in practically all epub readers for android. Even in CoolReader you could read the "mouse tail" poem by making some changes in the epub.css and fb2.css files inside the CoolReader folder.

I assume RbnJrg means that CoolReader is breaking the EPUB in question by defining nonstandard custom CSS.

I am very ashamed of you, for complaining about the lack of EPUB standardization and then using a non-standard app to try to prove your claim.

[Hitch]

Originally Posted by eschwartz

You said it doesn't work in multiple ereaders. What are the other ones that you say failed?

Regarding Coolreader itself, how interesting.

Which RbnJrg mentioned, first, mind you, vis-a-vis the tail poem.

I assume RbnJrg means that CoolReader is breaking the EPUB in question by defining nonstandard custom CSS.

I am very ashamed of you, for complaining about the lack of EPUB standardization and then using a non-standard app to try to prove your claim.

CoolReader is one of my banes, as well. For some reason, customers who can't download files from browsers, etc., somehow manage to find THAT Droid-reader, and of course, badda-bing, there are instant ePUB complaints. {sigh}

Hitch

[Toxaris]

It is hardly the fault of the ePUB standard if the manufacturer of a reader decides not to implement the standard fully or compliant. Sure, there are some ambiguous in the standard, but not that much. Coolreader does not have a very good track record on following the standard.

The readers ignore (or not use) most of the metadata, so why would a publisher add it?

[HarryT]

Originally Posted by Sarmat89

CoolReader 3.

Your specific claim was that it worked "only in ADE". This is demonstrably false.

[RbnJrg]

Originally Posted by HarryT

Which reader will not open the file?

But CoolReader CAN OPEN that epub!!! What CoolReader can't do is to display properly the tail poem, but it could, if you changes some things inside the epub.css and fb2.css CoolReader's files. Only CoolReader can't read the epub? You said about multiple readers CAN'T OPEN it. So again, please, which readers CAN'T OPEN the Jellby's epub?

[Sarmat89]

Originally Posted by Toxaris

It is hardly the fault of the ePUB standard if the manufacturer of a reader decides not to implement the standard fully or compliant.

The problem is that it is unrealistic to expect various software vendors to support all the features of CSS (even the simplest features like text-transform are often missing). Because they are superfluous for 90% of books here, the CSS styling should add to the book format, not define it.
For that purpose, the format should be built on a semantic basis. The only kind of span we can allow is for xml:lang attribute, for the correct hyphenation.

[eschwartz]

Originally Posted by Sarmat89

The problem is that it is unrealistic to expect various software vendors to support all the features of CSS (even the simplest features like text-transform are often missing). Because they are superfluous for 90% of books here, the CSS styling should add to the book format, not define it.
For that purpose, the format should be built on a semantic basis. The only kind of span we can allow is for xml:lang attribute, for the correct hyphenation.

If it is so unrealistic, why do all of them manage it?

And the most that can be said about the nonconformant ones, is that they override the CSS with breaking changes.



Few people actually write their own rendering engine. They almost invariably embed wekbit.
Amazon wrote their own rendering engine. Adobe wrote their own engine. Kobo wrote their own engine.
Pretty much all the independents (e-ink or app-based) just use webkit, or Adobe RMSDK.


Which is why apps tend to support this stuff.
I do expect Amazon and Kobo and Adobe to get this right. They are big enough to put in the effort. And... guess what?



P.S. Please keep being evasive...

[RbnJrg]

Originally Posted by Sarmat89

The problem is that it is unrealistic to expect various software vendors to support all the features of CSS (even the simplest features like text-transform are often missing). Because they are superfluous for 90% of books here, the CSS styling should add to the book format, not define it.
For that purpose, the format should be built on a semantic basis. The only kind of span we can allow is for xml:lang attribute, for the correct hyphenation.

I think what is unrealistic is that you can answer a question. You don't take charge of your own words; you said that none of your "multiple readers" could open the Jellby's epub and when here we ask you about which of your readers didn't open the ebook, you can't answer. Besides, for your words, is evident that you don't know anything about epub and css, so you shouldn't speak about something that you ignore. Sorry, but that is the true.

[kennyc]

We do have fun don't we.

[HarryT]

Originally Posted by Sarmat89

The problem is that it is unrealistic to expect various software vendors to support all the features of CSS (even the simplest features like text-transform are often missing). Because they are superfluous for 90% of books here, the CSS styling should add to the book format, not define it.
For that purpose, the format should be built on a semantic basis. The only kind of span we can allow is for xml:lang attribute, for the correct hyphenation.

Answer the damned question: which are these reading applications you're using that won't open the file?

If you aren't prepared to answer questions fully and openly I'm going to close this thread, because your continued evasiveness is boring me, and you clearly have no interest in having a serious discussion, but only in promoting your own agenda. If you continue to act in this manner, your future at MR will not be a long one.

Either start participating in a sensible discussion, or take your opinions elsewhere.

[doubleshuffle]

Originally Posted by kennyc

We do have fun don't we.

Fo sho.

Don't miss the next episode: Will the Dalek groundskeeper exterminate the boatshed before the rowers start a row and oars crack sculls?