Future Thoughts on Getting Decent epub 3 support

[Hitch]

Originally Posted by Notjohn

Amen!



Aw, Hitch, you really know how to hurt a guy! My workflow is similar: a Word doc becomes an html file, and the html file becomes an epub; later, the same Word doc becomes the print edition via Open Office Writer (which I prefer because I can paginate in it, and because the PDF output is so clean). So, yes, I wind up with two base documents.

But of course I only do a couple books a year, and not always that many.

And you are your only client. If you decide to do 100 edits, you inconvenience no one but yourself. And if you realize you have to do those 100 edits after you've created two completely differently-formatted documents, again: nobody to blame but yourself.

Honestly: this is make-work. 'Tis far easier to put a book in INDD, then export the ePUB, tweak the ePUB for *formatting.* Yes, if the client comes back with those selfsame 100 edits, it's the same problem--we have to re-export the ePUB after the edits are made, and retweak the ePUB. But nonetheless--at least the text edits are only made one time, and so you don't have to worry about conforming them.

In commercial bookmaking, there really isn't any good way to ONLY do the book once, given the issues going from print-->eBooks. Not unless you have the privilege of working solely for a BPH. They do the editing rounds until there's simply no life left in it, and you make them all in the print ARCS. There's none of this crackpot "making the books and eBooks and then going back with 50-100 edits post-facto." In trade layout houses, they also do the same thing--all in print until it's flayed.

So, that's that. The only product I know of that accommodates this is, indeed, Jutoh. I've been advised--I don't know this first-hand--that Jutoh also accommodates print, but I just can't warm up to the way Styles (and thus, everything that flows therefrom) work or don't, in that system.

FWIW.

@Harry:

Would there perhaps be any mileage in making "BookView" a read-only view rather than a window which permitted editing? That would still allow those who wished to use it to copy from to do so, while (perhaps?) simplifying the pain of two-way sync between BookView and CodeView.

But, isn't that what PP is now? A read-only view of the code?

Hitch

[GrannyGrump]

And also, you CAN copy FROM the Preview window (you just have to be cautious about selecting, and not letting the cursor jump until *after* you press CTRL C). I can see, though, why the ability to paste formatted text INTO the document would be desirable.

The only thing I ever used Book View for was Searching for certain characters that are ubiquitous in Code View, e.g. /<> and straight quote marks, because OCR leaves lots of detritus like that. When the ability to Search in BV was taken away, I stopped using BV.

[BetterRed]

Originally Posted by GrannyGrump

And also, you CAN copy FROM the Preview window (you just have to be cautious about selecting, and not letting the cursor jump until *after* you press CTRL C).

Perhaps what you've written in parentheses could be 'overcome' irrespective of whether BV stays or goes - copying a bit of the text to reuse elsewhere is almost impossible for me due to the way my mouse 'works'.

Would also be good if one could use ctrl and ctrl/alt arrow keys to select the text. A bonus would be a right click option to search the 'net for selected text (in default browser).

- a separate Paste Buffer into which 'stuff' (text & images) could be pasted, and saved within the epub; and sometime down the track, audio and video.

BR

[DiapDealer]

Originally Posted by BetterRed

A bonus would be a right click option to search the 'net for selected text (in default browser).

I've tried to think of reasons that might be useful (in an epub editor) and I have to admit I'm drawing a complete blank.

An epubreader... possibly, or a research app. But an epub editor? Why?

[Arios]

Originally Posted by HarryT

With a read-only BV there would, as you suggest, be no necessity for Preview.

Harry, it's not really what I had in mind. I prefer Preview instead of BV.

Somehow, what you propose is something like: rob Peter (Preview) to pay Paul (BV), because BV seems to be the burden (codewise at least), not Preview!

Originally Posted by GrannyGrump

...you CAN copy FROM the Preview window...

Nice find GrannyGrump, I was not aware of this useful but hard to use capability: may be it can be improved, so we have a solution pertaining to BV?

[HarryT]

Originally Posted by Arios

Harry, it's not really what I had in mind. I prefer Preview instead of BV.

Somehow, what you propose is something like: rob Peter (Preview) to pay Paul (BV), because BV seems to be the burden (codewise at least), not Preview!

No, I'm not suggesting that . I'm suggesting that it might be worth considering whether BV and Preview could perhaps be combined in some way that would retain the most useful features of each.

[DiapDealer]

Preview and Book View are essentially the same thing. It's just that with Book View, the Preview is stuffed into an editable QPlainTextEdit widget and the element inspector is turned off. That's a bit of a gross oversimplification, to be sure, but essentially true. Preview is basically a one-way street version of Book View: there just doesn't need to be any tweaking of the content going into Preview, because nothing ever has to come back out of Preview.

[Hitch]

Originally Posted by GrannyGrump

And also, you CAN copy FROM the Preview window (you just have to be cautious about selecting, and not letting the cursor jump until *after* you press CTRL C). I can see, though, why the ability to paste formatted text INTO the document would be desirable.

The only thing I ever used Book View for was Searching for certain characters that are ubiquitous in Code View, e.g. /<> and straight quote marks, because OCR leaves lots of detritus like that. When the ability to Search in BV was taken away, I stopped using BV.

Hi, Granny:

I think the discussion is about copying from other applications (browsers, word-processors, etc.) INTO Bookview, but thanks for letting me know--I didn't know you could copy from PP.

(Are we all calling Preview, PV? As opposed to PP? Just checking for ease of typing.)

Hitch

[eschwartz]

Where does the double P come from?
Now, the PV is Preview View, for consistency with Book View and Code View.

(But as they say, variety is the spice of life. We love you anyway. )

[Toxaris]

I guess PP stands for Preview Panel or Preview Pane.

[Hitch]

Originally Posted by Hitch

Hi, Granny:

<SNIPPAGE>"...I didn't know you could copy from PP."

(Are we all calling Preview, PV? As opposed to PP? Just checking for ease of typing.)

Hitch

So, I thought it was the Preview Pane. (See below).

Originally Posted by eschwartz

Where does the double P come from?
Now, the PV is Preview View, for consistency with Book View and Code View.

(But as they say, variety is the spice of life. We love you anyway. )

Me no care. Me only ask. PV, PP, VP, VIP, Booboo Bear, whatever youse guys want to call it, just lemme know.

Originally Posted by Toxaris

I guess PP stands for Preview Panel or Preview Pane.

That's what I thought it was called, TBH. It is Preview View? Which sounds ever-so-slightly repetitive? If it's that, let's just call it Preview, period, I guess...???

Would whomever coded this and therefore had the honor of naming it please stand up, and tell us???? Kev, Diap????

Anyway, back to the important stuff: I do think we need to keep some type of PASTE functionality, for those folks who are using it. No matter what we do for the rest. I can see how it could actually be useful.

Hitch

[BetterRed]

Originally Posted by DiapD/ealer

I've tried to think of reasons that might be useful (in an epub editor) and I have to admit I'm drawing a complete blank.

An epubreader... possibly, or a research app. But an epub editor? Why?

Typical use - when I 'happen to spot' a something like a name of a person, place, product, term etc which I think is misspelt, misused (or creatively used) then I'll want to search the 'net for it. A keyboard friendly copy facility would get me most of the way there - as I said the 'net lookup would be a bonus.

I don't edit books, I edit factual public domain 'papers' from government, consultancies, academia, media etc. Including transcripts of audio & video material e.g. Sunday AM talking-head, bandwidth-wasting, TV programs.

BR

[JSWolf]

I have a great idea. Modify Sigil so you cannot paste from Word. More people get it so very wrong using Word than any other program.

[DiapDealer]

Originally Posted by BetterRed

Typical use - when I 'happen to spot' a something like a name of a person, place, product, term etc which I think is misspelt, misused (or creatively used) then I'll want to search the 'net for it. A keyboard friendly copy facility would get me most of the way there - as I said the 'net lookup would be a bonus.

I don't edit books, I edit factual public domain 'papers' from government, consultancies, academia, media etc. Including transcripts of audio & video material e.g. Sunday AM talking-head, bandwidth-wasting, TV programs.

BR

OK. I can see that.
I guess I was thinking of "highlighted text" as a phrase, or a few sentences. So I was having a hard time imagining such a search turning up anything other than the exact same highlighted text from the same book that was being edited... and already highlighted.

[Hitch]

Originally Posted by JSWolf

I have a great idea. Modify Sigil so you cannot paste from Word. More people get it so very wrong using Word than any other program.

Wolfie:

Don't be obstreperous. No reason on earth to do that; if they can't abuse Sigil with Word, they'll find some other way. That's just being...mean. And, strewth, a competent user of Word CAN, actually, create perfectly decent, paste-a-ble HTML, IF (big caveat) they know what they are doing. I've done it myself. Granted, not recently, but...it can be done. If you use a clean set of styles, and create your document, you CAN, absolutely, just paste the entire damn thing right into Sigil. That doesn't mean you don't have to clean up some of what happens, afterwards, using HTML and search/regex/etc.; but it works, to a certain degree.

Besides--it's a good way for beginners to learn, really. Take XXX out of Word, paste it into Sigil, and they can SEE what this or that does, in an eBook. To a large extent, that's how I initially learned (using MBPC, back in 'the day'). Nothing wrong with it. Yes, it's vexing to get folks that want it to BECOME Word, but....we will never be able to stop that.

Hitch