Why the limited flash memory?

crossi · 10-28-2015, 08:48 AM

Why do all the ereaders all have such limited flash memory? A16G or higher memory stick is pretty cheap even retail and the 16G sticks are no bigger than the 4G ones so it's not a space issue. Even if most didn't use that much memory how much would it cost to throw it in.

booklover6 · 10-28-2015, 08:56 AM

E-reading devices do not use memory sticks. Many Kobo readers use micro SD cards. Readers such as Kindle do not even use those.

Despite these remarks, I agree with you. There are some European e-readers that come with 8 GB flash and SD card slots. I would like a Kobo or a Kindle with 8 GB or larger flash storage. Not that I ever fill my 4 GB. I'd just like to have it.

Apache · 10-28-2015, 09:39 AM

It is better to have more space than you need and not need it than to not have enough space and have the need.
Apache

pdurrant · 10-28-2015, 09:43 AM

I suspect that Amazon haven't done so because of problems with indexing, searching and displaying the very large numbers of books possible with >2GB space.

But yes, a 16GB Kindle would be nice, to have my entire collection with me, if it also had the searching/sorting/filtering capabilities of calibre.

crossi · 10-28-2015, 09:55 AM

What if it only indexed metadata not the text? Wouldn't that simplify the indexing problem, and speed things up as well. I don't think I've ever used the search function for text but I really would like to be able to search by tags as an alternative to a real file system.

The whole file management system is the worst part of ereaders. The physical components like the display are I think as good as they need to be already.

HarryT · 10-28-2015, 10:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pdurrant

I suspect that Amazon haven't done so because of problems with indexing, searching and displaying the very large numbers of books possible with >2GB space.

But yes, a 16GB Kindle would be nice, to have my entire collection with me, if it also had the searching/sorting/filtering capabilities of calibre.

"Calibre Companion" (which gives you the sorting/searching/filtering capabilities of Calibre on an Android device) works beautifully on eInk Android devices like the Onyx T68. Well worth considering if you do have a need to maintain a large library on an eInk device.

DiapDealer · 10-28-2015, 10:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by crossi

What if it only indexed metadata not the text? Wouldn't that simplify the indexing problem, and speed things up as well. I don't think I've ever used the search function for text but I really would like to be able to search by tags as an alternative to a real file system.

Trust me: if Amazon had solid evidence that full-text searching wasn't being utilized by a significant portion of their customers, full-text indexing would already be gone.

pdurrant · 10-28-2015, 10:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HarryT

"Calibre Companion" (which gives you the sorting/searching/filtering capabilities of Calibre on an Android device) works beautifully on eInk Android devices like the Onyx T68. Well worth considering if you do have a need to maintain a large library on an eInk device.

Hmm... a tempting reason for going for something other than a Kindle next time.

HarryT · 10-28-2015, 10:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DiapDealer

Trust me: if Amazon had solid evidence that full-text searching wasn't being utilized by a significant portion of their customers, full-text indexing would already be gone.

For me personally, full-text search is one of the main reasons I buy Kindles. It's a feature that (to the best of my knowledge) no other model of reading device offers.

DiapDealer · 10-28-2015, 10:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HarryT

For me personally, full-text search is one of the main reasons I buy Kindles. It's a feature that (to the best of my knowledge) no other model of reading device offers.

I don't utilize it a lot, but I certainly appreciate it being there when I do. I imagine there's quite a few users in that same boat (and/or in yours). It's certainly a selling point I don't see them abandoning anytime soon!

eschwartz · 10-28-2015, 10:42 AM

to the full-text search. I consider it a very desirable feature.

Far more desirable than extra storage space (I have never once come near to filling up the space I do have).

misling · 10-28-2015, 03:39 PM

I'd gladly turn OFF text search, if that were a standard option, to gain some performance.
It would do me no good to have a multi-GB flash when the OS slows to a crawl at less than 1000 books; probably due to indexing.
And I think I actually tried that, from a command line thing, and it did improve performance, but the setting goes away again every time you reboot. This would have been a few years ago on my Kindle Keyboard.

HarryT · 10-28-2015, 03:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by misling

I'd gladly turn OFF text search, if that were a standard option, to gain some performance.
It would do me no good to have a multi-GB flash when the OS slows to a crawl at less than 1000 books; probably due to indexing.

You should wait for each batch of books to complete indexing before adding the next. You know how to check whether or not indexing is complete?

eschwartz · 10-28-2015, 04:05 PM

Indexing doesn't usually slow down reading -- unless the indexer is still processing new books, of course.

Many many books will of course slow down searching through the index.
And collections is a separate database, which also suffers from large size -- one reason I prefer using LibrarianSync for bulk modification of collections.

misling · 10-28-2015, 04:31 PM

No, having a bunch of books on the kindle k doesn't slow reading at all. What it slows is the responsiveness of the device when you're in the main book list or the collections, pr adding to collections, or when you hit the menu button, or any other OS related thing.
And I'm not talking about DURING indexing. I'm talking about having 1000 indexed books on the device. When I get that many on the device, I have to delete some, or the performance goes to heck (except for reading).
I have 2K free, so it's not physical space. I figure the database design is so poor, and/or the OS so weak, that it just can't handle large numbers of books well.
I know it uses json for almost everything, instead of real databases suited to large amts of data.

10-28-2015, 08:48 AM	#1
crossi Guru Posts: 997 Karma: 12000001 Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: Seattle Wahington U.S. Device: kindle	Why the limited flash memory? Why do all the ereaders all have such limited flash memory? A16G or higher memory stick is pretty cheap even retail and the 16G sticks are no bigger than the 4G ones so it's not a space issue. Even if most didn't use that much memory how much would it cost to throw it in.

10-28-2015, 09:55 AM	#5
crossi Guru Posts: 997 Karma: 12000001 Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: Seattle Wahington U.S. Device: kindle	What if it only indexed metadata not the text? Wouldn't that simplify the indexing problem, and speed things up as well. I don't think I've ever used the search function for text but I really would like to be able to search by tags as an alternative to a real file system. The whole file management system is the worst part of ereaders. The physical components like the display are I think as good as they need to be already. Last edited by crossi; 10-28-2015 at 09:58 AM.

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10-28-2015, 08:56 AM	#2
booklover6 Grand Sorcerer Posts: 6,545 Karma: 14008730 Join Date: May 2008 Location: PA (USA) Device: Kobo Clara, 2E, Libre 1, PW4, PW5, 2022 Kindle, Kobo Libre Colour	E-reading devices do not use memory sticks. Many Kobo readers use micro SD cards. Readers such as Kindle do not even use those. Despite these remarks, I agree with you. There are some European e-readers that come with 8 GB flash and SD card slots. I would like a Kobo or a Kindle with 8 GB or larger flash storage. Not that I ever fill my 4 GB. I'd just like to have it.

10-28-2015, 09:39 AM	#3
Apache Readaholic Posts: 5,306 Karma: 90981752 Join Date: Sep 2011 Location: South Georgia Device: Surface Pro 6 / Galaxy Tab A 8"	It is better to have more space than you need and not need it than to not have enough space and have the need. Apache

10-28-2015, 09:43 AM	#4
pdurrant The Grand Mouse 高貴的老鼠 Posts: 74,450 Karma: 318076944 Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Norfolk, England Device: Kindle Oasis	I suspect that Amazon haven't done so because of problems with indexing, searching and displaying the very large numbers of books possible with >2GB space. But yes, a 16GB Kindle would be nice, to have my entire collection with me, if it also had the searching/sorting/filtering capabilities of calibre.

10-28-2015, 10:42 AM	#11
eschwartz Ex-Helpdesk Junkie Posts: 19,421 Karma: 85400180 Join Date: Nov 2012 Location: The Beaten Path, USA, Roundworld, This Side of Infinity Device: Kindle Touch fw5.3.7 (Wifi only)	to the full-text search. I consider it a very desirable feature. Far more desirable than extra storage space (I have never once come near to filling up the space I do have).

10-28-2015, 03:39 PM	#12
misling Zealot Posts: 106 Karma: 510000 Join Date: Nov 2010 Device: Kindle	I'd gladly turn OFF text search, if that were a standard option, to gain some performance. It would do me no good to have a multi-GB flash when the OS slows to a crawl at less than 1000 books; probably due to indexing. And I think I actually tried that, from a command line thing, and it did improve performance, but the setting goes away again every time you reboot. This would have been a few years ago on my Kindle Keyboard.

10-28-2015, 04:05 PM	#14
eschwartz Ex-Helpdesk Junkie Posts: 19,421 Karma: 85400180 Join Date: Nov 2012 Location: The Beaten Path, USA, Roundworld, This Side of Infinity Device: Kindle Touch fw5.3.7 (Wifi only)	Indexing doesn't usually slow down reading -- unless the indexer is still processing new books, of course. Many many books will of course slow down searching through the index. And collections is a separate database, which also suffers from large size -- one reason I prefer using LibrarianSync for bulk modification of collections.

10-28-2015, 04:31 PM	#15
misling Zealot Posts: 106 Karma: 510000 Join Date: Nov 2010 Device: Kindle	No, having a bunch of books on the kindle k doesn't slow reading at all. What it slows is the responsiveness of the device when you're in the main book list or the collections, pr adding to collections, or when you hit the menu button, or any other OS related thing. And I'm not talking about DURING indexing. I'm talking about having 1000 indexed books on the device. When I get that many on the device, I have to delete some, or the performance goes to heck (except for reading). I have 2K free, so it's not physical space. I figure the database design is so poor, and/or the OS so weak, that it just can't handle large numbers of books well. I know it uses json for almost everything, instead of real databases suited to large amts of data.