Watchdog talks about Amazon closing accounts - Page 2

Wearever · 10-23-2015, 08:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JSWolf

The UK program Watchdog is doing a segment on Amazon closing accounts for one too many returns. This will be run on October 29, 2015 at 8:00pm (UK time) in the UK on BBC One. Should be interesting to find out what Amazon has to say.

Thanks JSWolf , I'm in the US , so I hope the program will be aired at some point here by BBC. I'll be looking forward to comments by viewers from the UK who have watched this program.

Josieb1 · 10-23-2015, 08:59 AM

Deleted as I'm getting angry again

ProfCrash · 10-23-2015, 10:00 AM

OK, now I am curious because of all the deleted posts.

Josieb1 · 10-23-2015, 10:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ProfCrash

OK, now I am curious because of all the deleted posts.

Brief summary. We got a letter, we disagree with its contents. Most people on this forum think we are the devil incarnte and Amazon are right to close our account and make our Kindle Fires useless.

No one cares that Amazon might be wrong and that we can't appeal and that we have been threatened with closure of both our Amazon and Audible accounts (even though the 'problem' is on our Amazon account only).

Amazon are perfect and we are only getting what we deserve. Even though only we know the true facts, but I'm lying of course.

issybird · 10-23-2015, 10:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Josieb1

Brief summary. We got a letter, we disagree with its contents. Most people on this forum think we are the devil incarnte and Amazon are right to close our account and make our Kindle Fires useless.

No one cares that Amazon might be wrong and that we can't appeal and that we have been threatened with closure of both our Amazon and Audible accounts (even though the 'problem' is on our Amazon account only).

Amazon are perfect and we are only getting what we deserve. Even though only we know the true facts, but I'm lying of course.

You might be better served by engaging in a tad less hyperbole.

ProfCrash · 10-23-2015, 10:57 AM

Amazon is a large company that has policies that it will follow to the letter because to look at any specific case is to open a massive can of worms and could lead to law suits down the line. It sucks donkey balls because there are folks who are in a grey area who get screwed.

I taught for 10 years. I had a strict policy regarding grades and missed exams. I allowed students to drop one exam (out of three). I allowed make ups only in instances where someone had a doctors note due to illness (theirs or someone who they are responsible for), funerals (They had to bring something from the funeral to show that they were there like a program) or other really weird issues. Dropping an exam allowed students who were sick but not worth going to the Doctors for or slept through an exam some latitude. They still had two exams they could take and do well in the class.

The black and white policy worked. It made my life a hell of a lot easier. It was in the syllabus. I reminded them of it before every exam. There was one case, in 10 years, were the Ombuds told me I had to give the student a make up exam. Is it possible that some students with legit reasons for missing two exams were harmed? Yup. Did it mainly effect the kids who never came to class and got the syllabus or heard my mention the policy and basically thought they could BS their way into a D? Yup.

I had one student who made a fuss in class about it, after missing a second exam. His classmates, plural, pulled out the syllabus and pointed to the policy. Several voiced that I had reminded them of the policy several times before the exam. After class, several students came up and said that they now understood why I was so anal about it.

The problem to me seems to be that Amazon, and other companies, are not clear on what the policy is. You could be someone who buys from third parties on Amazon and what is sent is damaged so you send it back. How many times does that have to happen before you are on their radar? Is it a set number of times or is it a percentage of total sales?

We buy a lot from Target and have returned stuff a good amount. We have a toddler and have picked up toys, clothes that we thought he needed and they didn't end up fitting or we decided he had enough gifts or the diapers were delayed from Amazon but then arrived that same day and he was going to be moving into the next size soon so keeping an extra pack of diapers was silly. I have worried that Target was going to tell me that I could not return any more. I don't know what the line is. I am not trying to be abusive, we don't return items we used.

So where is the line? And what type of warning are they giving? Is it clear enough that people know what is happening? The cases I am seeing have involved food items that have exploded due to bad packaging.

So yeah, Amazon is not clean. Some of the cases I have read about strike me as abusive by the customer but many are not. The hard line sucks but I get why it is there.

HarryT · 10-23-2015, 11:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Josieb1

Brief summary. We got a letter, we disagree with its contents. Most people on this forum think we are the devil incarnte and Amazon are right to close our account and make our Kindle Fires useless.

No one cares that Amazon might be wrong and that we can't appeal and that we have been threatened with closure of both our Amazon and Audible accounts (even though the 'problem' is on our Amazon account only).

Amazon are perfect and we are only getting what we deserve. Even though only we know the true facts, but I'm lying of course.

I'm afraid you've long since lost any sympathy I may have felt. The first time you told the story I was sympathetic. After endless repetition of it, it just feels like whining. This isn't the way to get anyone on your side.

Cinisajoy · 10-23-2015, 12:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ProfCrash

Amazon is a large company that has policies that it will follow to the letter because to look at any specific case is to open a massive can of worms and could lead to law suits down the line. It sucks donkey balls because there are folks who are in a grey area who get screwed.

I taught for 10 years. I had a strict policy regarding grades and missed exams. I allowed students to drop one exam (out of three). I allowed make ups only in instances where someone had a doctors note due to illness (theirs or someone who they are responsible for), funerals (They had to bring something from the funeral to show that they were there like a program) or other really weird issues. Dropping an exam allowed students who were sick but not worth going to the Doctors for or slept through an exam some latitude. They still had two exams they could take and do well in the class.

The black and white policy worked. It made my life a hell of a lot easier. It was in the syllabus. I reminded them of it before every exam. There was one case, in 10 years, were the Ombuds told me I had to give the student a make up exam. Is it possible that some students with legit reasons for missing two exams were harmed? Yup. Did it mainly effect the kids who never came to class and got the syllabus or heard my mention the policy and basically thought they could BS their way into a D? Yup.

I had one student who made a fuss in class about it, after missing a second exam. His classmates, plural, pulled out the syllabus and pointed to the policy. Several voiced that I had reminded them of the policy several times before the exam. After class, several students came up and said that they now understood why I was so anal about it.

The problem to me seems to be that Amazon, and other companies, are not clear on what the policy is. You could be someone who buys from third parties on Amazon and what is sent is damaged so you send it back. How many times does that have to happen before you are on their radar? Is it a set number of times or is it a percentage of total sales?

We buy a lot from Target and have returned stuff a good amount. We have a toddler and have picked up toys, clothes that we thought he needed and they didn't end up fitting or we decided he had enough gifts or the diapers were delayed from Amazon but then arrived that same day and he was going to be moving into the next size soon so keeping an extra pack of diapers was silly. I have worried that Target was going to tell me that I could not return any more. I don't know what the line is. I am not trying to be abusive, we don't return items we used.

So where is the line? And what type of warning are they giving? Is it clear enough that people know what is happening? The cases I am seeing have involved food items that have exploded due to bad packaging.

So yeah, Amazon is not clean. Some of the cases I have read about strike me as abusive by the customer but many are not. The hard line sucks but I get why it is there.

Hey Prof,
You made me kind of giggle. I didn't miss any exams but I just took my father's obituary to college with me. I don't remember if we didn't have programs or I just didn't pick on up.
I do agree with your policy.

Josieb1 · 10-23-2015, 01:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HarryT

I'm afraid you've long since lost any sympathy I may have felt. The first time you told the story I was sympathetic. After endless repetition of it, it just feels like whining. This isn't the way to get anyone on your side.

I think it's way past getting anyone on our side. And apologies for my 'whining' but I feel I have the right to.

Still hopefully it's a wake up call for people to back up everything they buy from Amazon, not just use Alf for the ebooks.

Cinisajoy · 10-23-2015, 01:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Josieb1

I think it's way past getting anyone on our side. And apologies for my 'whining' but I feel I have the right to.

Still hopefully it's a wake up call for people to back up everything they buy from Amazon, not just use Alf for the ebooks.

If I remember right they did not close your account, they only warned you.
Now I have a very simple solution to keeping your account open.
Do NOT buy anything from them again. Not even an ebook. No buys, no returns, no problems.
I am not saying who is right and who is wrong, but since you feel threatened don't give them any more money.

Here is the thing as long as you still buy from them, it shows you support their policies.

I don't mind your complaints as long as you put your money where your mouth is.

Now here is a cup of tea.

HarryT · 10-23-2015, 01:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Josieb1

I think it's way past getting anyone on our side. And apologies for my 'whining' but I feel I have the right to.

No, you do not have a right to use this site as a soapbox to air your personal grievances with Amazon. You've made your point, now drop the subject, please.

soulfuldog · 10-23-2015, 02:14 PM

I didn't see all the posts in this thread before they were deleted but that seems a bit harsh HarryT? Its not like Josieb1 is posting on every single thread related to Amazon, so I don't see why she can't repeat her point on a thread which is about closure of accounts. People are free to disagree and comment on them, or to ignore them as they wish.

ProfCrash · 10-23-2015, 02:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HarryT

No, you do not have a right to use this site as a soapbox to air your personal grievances with Amazon. You've made your point, now drop the subject, please.

My apologies, I should have sent a PM instead of posting. She was responding to my question.

cfrizz · 10-23-2015, 02:57 PM

As far as ebooks go, if people aren't automatically downloading and backing them up on the computers, then that is their own fault. By now everyone that buys ebooks should know that stores can go away at anytime and that access to your books in NOT guaranteed.

As for the rest, Amazon is already probably taking a beating on delivery, so getting a ton of returns from the same people over and over again is also costing them money. Not everything they order can have a problem with it.

I have been a member of Amazon since 1999. I have never returned a product and only 3 times not received an order.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dopedangel

Personally I think Amazon has the right to stop selling to a person. But they should not have the right to close an account as that means denying a person valid access to their purchases specially in the case of ebooks. They should just block the account from being able to purchase anything else.

Blossom · 10-23-2015, 03:07 PM

I have been monitored this situation closely over the years on the case of Amazon flagging your account for physical returns. I've seen two common things, either you return too many big ticket items or you returned too many items purchased through merchants. If several merchants complain to Amazon you are going to be flagged. So be careful when returning items sold by merchants.

10-23-2015, 08:59 AM	#17
Josieb1 Grand Sorcerer Posts: 5,082 Karma: 18051062 Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: UK Device: Kindle Scribe, Coloursoft, PW SE, Kindle 6, Kobo Libra Colour, Libra 2	Deleted as I'm getting angry again Last edited by Josieb1; 10-23-2015 at 09:11 AM.

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10-23-2015, 10:00 AM	#18
ProfCrash Tea Enthusiast Posts: 8,554 Karma: 75384937 Join Date: Jul 2010 Location: Somewhere in the USA Device: Kindle1, Kindle DX Graphite, K3 3G, IPad 3, PW2	OK, now I am curious because of all the deleted posts.

10-23-2015, 10:57 AM	#21
ProfCrash Tea Enthusiast Posts: 8,554 Karma: 75384937 Join Date: Jul 2010 Location: Somewhere in the USA Device: Kindle1, Kindle DX Graphite, K3 3G, IPad 3, PW2	Amazon is a large company that has policies that it will follow to the letter because to look at any specific case is to open a massive can of worms and could lead to law suits down the line. It sucks donkey balls because there are folks who are in a grey area who get screwed. I taught for 10 years. I had a strict policy regarding grades and missed exams. I allowed students to drop one exam (out of three). I allowed make ups only in instances where someone had a doctors note due to illness (theirs or someone who they are responsible for), funerals (They had to bring something from the funeral to show that they were there like a program) or other really weird issues. Dropping an exam allowed students who were sick but not worth going to the Doctors for or slept through an exam some latitude. They still had two exams they could take and do well in the class. The black and white policy worked. It made my life a hell of a lot easier. It was in the syllabus. I reminded them of it before every exam. There was one case, in 10 years, were the Ombuds told me I had to give the student a make up exam. Is it possible that some students with legit reasons for missing two exams were harmed? Yup. Did it mainly effect the kids who never came to class and got the syllabus or heard my mention the policy and basically thought they could BS their way into a D? Yup. I had one student who made a fuss in class about it, after missing a second exam. His classmates, plural, pulled out the syllabus and pointed to the policy. Several voiced that I had reminded them of the policy several times before the exam. After class, several students came up and said that they now understood why I was so anal about it. The problem to me seems to be that Amazon, and other companies, are not clear on what the policy is. You could be someone who buys from third parties on Amazon and what is sent is damaged so you send it back. How many times does that have to happen before you are on their radar? Is it a set number of times or is it a percentage of total sales? We buy a lot from Target and have returned stuff a good amount. We have a toddler and have picked up toys, clothes that we thought he needed and they didn't end up fitting or we decided he had enough gifts or the diapers were delayed from Amazon but then arrived that same day and he was going to be moving into the next size soon so keeping an extra pack of diapers was silly. I have worried that Target was going to tell me that I could not return any more. I don't know what the line is. I am not trying to be abusive, we don't return items we used. So where is the line? And what type of warning are they giving? Is it clear enough that people know what is happening? The cases I am seeing have involved food items that have exploded due to bad packaging. So yeah, Amazon is not clean. Some of the cases I have read about strike me as abusive by the customer but many are not. The hard line sucks but I get why it is there.

10-23-2015, 02:14 PM	#27
soulfuldog I ♥ Calibre Posts: 2,073 Karma: 5678911 Join Date: Aug 2011 Location: UK Device: Kindle Oasis, Voyage, Sony PRS-350, Hudl2	I didn't see all the posts in this thread before they were deleted but that seems a bit harsh HarryT? Its not like Josieb1 is posting on every single thread related to Amazon, so I don't see why she can't repeat her point on a thread which is about closure of accounts. People are free to disagree and comment on them, or to ignore them as they wish.

10-23-2015, 03:07 PM	#30
Blossom Treasure Seeker Posts: 18,708 Karma: 26026435 Join Date: Mar 2010 Device: Kobo HD Glo, Kindles, Kindle Fires, Andriod Devices	I have been monitored this situation closely over the years on the case of Amazon flagging your account for physical returns. I've seen two common things, either you return too many big ticket items or you returned too many items purchased through merchants. If several merchants complain to Amazon you are going to be flagged. So be careful when returning items sold by merchants.