E-book sales down

[Geralt]

Originally Posted by FacebookVirus

I don't care what they want. I care what works for me, which is print books, public domain and independent authors' works on my ereader.

fjtorres didn't call you out on the choices you make with your wallet. Nobody cares about that.
He called you out on your delusions about Amazon doing the things you mentioned in your post, which are false.

[SteveEisenberg]

Originally Posted by fjtorres

The thing is, since the vast majority of products sold at retail have the price set by the retailer . . .

You mean, in the United States? I'm just asking because of mildly objecting to that being the default country

In a dollar store, sounds right.

In a supermarket, I wonder. Most of the stuff we buy is on a promotion. Do Coke and Pepsi let them charge whatever they want? Might the policies vary so much from year to year than any prior study is already out of date?

Of course, there are lots of times when the retailer sets the price within a range. Apple is a prime example, explaining why Amazon won't sell many of their current products (except through third party sellers). But it seems like Apple is letting Amazon sell older stuff at high prices:

http://www.amazon.com/Apple-iPad-MC7...AATVPDKIKX0DER

Might Barnes & Noble be moving from books to toys to get away from retail price maintenance? Probably not:

http://www.wsj.com/articles/SB123007559680631543

[FacebookVirus]

Originally Posted by Geralt

fjtorres didn't call you out on the choices you make with your wallet. Nobody cares about that.
He called you out on your delusions about Amazon doing the things you mentioned in your post, which are false.

I haven't expressed beliefs about them. I have other reasons - recent orders that weren't books of any type - for taking my business elsewhere.

[conan50]

The NYT seems to be fueling the delusions of publishers. What has hurt ebook sales:
Flood of Independent self-published ebooks on the market, many free or low priced.
No uniform format like with music (MP3) and DRM to further muddy the format waters.
But the biggest thing has been rising ebook prices from the publishers.
So 2 out of 3 of the reasons ebooks have probably slowed in sales are choices made by publishers.
But do we have any numbers anywhere about how many ebooks Amazon has given away or sold by Independents? I would be very surprised if those sales have slowed.

[Cinisajoy]

Originally Posted by SteveEisenberg

You mean, in the United States? I'm just asking because of mildly objecting to that being the default country

In a dollar store, sounds right.

In a supermarket, I wonder. Most of the stuff we buy is on a promotion. Do Coke and Pepsi let them charge whatever they want? Might the policies vary so much from year to year than any prior study is already out of date?

Of course, there are lots of times when the retailer sets the price within a range. Apple is a prime example, explaining why Amazon won't sell many of their current products (except through third party sellers). But it seems like Apple is letting Amazon sell older stuff at high prices:

http://www.amazon.com/Apple-iPad-MC7...AATVPDKIKX0DER

Might Barnes & Noble be moving from books to toys to get away from retail price maintenance? Probably not:

http://www.wsj.com/articles/SB123007559680631543

Steve,
The fast way to tell who sets the price is if the price is the same across the stores then the manufacturer sets the price.
Now on Coke/Pepsi/Budweiser/Coors/Frito Lay/Bimbo Bakeries: not only do they set the prices, they also do the store displays.
Oh and if we are talking Walmart: they don't do their media either. That is another company. My cousin works for the media company.

I am not sure about the other companies that supply the grocery stores.
Name brands that is.
Store brands come from various wholesalers like AP Grocers and another is United Market.

Hope this helps.

[DuckieTigger]

Originally Posted by SteveEisenberg

But it seems like Apple is letting Amazon sell older stuff at high prices:

http://www.amazon.com/Apple-iPad-MC7...AATVPDKIKX0DER

That link you posted is not sold by Amazon at all. It is sold by Apple through Amazon. In fact, please show me one single iPad that Amazon itself sells - where Amazon is actually the seller.

[Geralt]

Originally Posted by FacebookVirus

I haven't expressed beliefs about them. I have other reasons - recent orders that weren't books of any type - for taking my business elsewhere.

As I said, nobody cares what you do with your own wallet.

Originally Posted by FacebookVirus

Still have many ebooks to read on my PW2, Sony and smartphone.

Maybe the trend is real, maybe not. But with Amazon continuing to lock down their ereaders, as well as increased prices to the point they're comparable to traditional books I've largely gone back to paper.

The fact that that also involves a move from Amazon - no local presence for me - to Barnes and Noble - best bookstore in the area - is an added benefit.

Your words, not mine.

[darryl]

I applaud FacebookVirus for going back to Paper if this is what he or she prefers. Personally I just don't understand how anyone could do this. And I'm sure FacebookVirus is not the only one, though I suspect the number is not high. Anyway, diversity is a wobderful thing most of the time.

I can just see the Big 5 executives enjoying Friday afternoon drinkies in a nice New York penthouse, lamenting that there are not many more like FacebookVirus. Or perhaps they believe there are, since driving people back to PBooks seems to be their current business strategy.

Finally, I recommend staying away (if you can bear to, of course) from any publishing related article in the NYT, and particularly any articles claiming ebook sales are falling. I think we all realised the emperor was naked long ago.

[FacebookVirus]

Originally Posted by Geralt

As I said, nobody cares what you do with your own wallet.


Your words, not mine.

I can see where your misunderstanding comes from, but I wasn't saying Amazon was the reason for the increased prices. I said increased prices, not where they come from.

I like browsing a bookstore in person and I prefer B & N because of their local presence, which Amazon does not have. When traveling I prefer independent bookstores but there simply are none nearby in this area.

Others may hate Amazon but I don't and the opinions ascribed to me here are faulty assumptions, although I can see how the connection was made.

And I don't care who sets the prices. I have no control of it regardless.

[disconnected]

Does anyone know why Severn House prices are so high?

At least in the US their prices on new ebooks are as high as any agency publisher, and often higher.

I don't think they can be agency. There's no "price set by publisher" at Amazon. Kobo and Amazon prices differ (and not always in the same direction). They are discountable.

[fjtorres]

Originally Posted by Cinisajoy

The fast way to tell who sets the price is if the price is the same across the stores then the manufacturer sets the price.

.

Exactly.
And "same pricing" means "same pricing *everywhere*" not "same pricing at big retailers".

Suppliers don't control the pricing at groceries any more than publishers control pbook pricing. When you see the same prices at big chain supermarkets it is the *result* of big retailers squeezing suppliers, price-matching, and negotiated deals, *not* suppliers dictating the retail price.

Groceries is not generally a priced-fixed business (though some suppliers do from time to time engage in price fixing. Soap vendors in Europe a couple years back, for example) and even though some supermarket chains in a given region maintain similar or even identical prices those are merely the *lowest* prices in that region. Plenty of other retailers in the same region will carry the exact same product at different prices; inner city groceries, Convenience stores, gas stations, chain drug stores...

No supplier mandated prices.
Not like agency ebooks where the supplier sets the exact same price for *every* retailer everywhere, big or small.

In groceries, and most other product lines (say pbooks), the supplier negotiates wholesale prices with distributors or retailers and the retailer sets their own prices according to their market and their business model. It may be higher than the wholesaler price or it may be lower depending on the role the product plays in the retailer's basket pricing model. They are not automatically obligated to sell it at any specific MSRP.

Horizontal price maintenance by suppliers is a rarity and it is a rarity because until relatively recently it was illegal. Hopefully it soon will be again; it is never good for consumers and rarely good for retailers.

[Calenorn]

Let's be precise and say that ebook 'rentals' are down. If we could actually 'buy' these books they might sell a lot more.

Speaking only for myself, being locked into a 'walled garden' is a serious disincentive. But, again, let's be precise and call these 'walled gardens' by a different name. How about 'shackled-customer zone'?

But this is an old argument. I'll stop now.

[Phogg]

Originally Posted by Calenorn

Let's be precise and say that ebook 'rentals' are down. If we could actually 'buy' these books they might sell a lot more.

Speaking only for myself, being locked into a 'walled garden' is a serious disincentive. But, again, let's be precise and call these 'walled gardens' by a different name. How about 'shackled-customer zone'?

But this is an old argument. I'll stop now.

Alf provides keys to the garden.

[Cinisajoy]

Originally Posted by fjtorres

Exactly.
And "same pricing" means "same pricing *everywhere*" not "same pricing at big retailers".

Suppliers don't control the pricing at groceries any more than publishers control pbook pricing. When you see the same prices at big chain supermarkets it is the *result* of big retailers squeezing suppliers, price-matching, and negotiated deals, *not* suppliers dictating the retail price.

Groceries is not generally a priced-fixed business (though some suppliers do from time to time engage in price fixing. Soap vendors in Europe a couple years back, for example) and even though some supermarket chains in a given region maintain similar or even identical prices those are merely the *lowest* prices in that region. Plenty of other retailers in the same region will carry the exact same product at different prices; inner city groceries, Convenience stores, gas stations, chain drug stores...

No supplier mandated prices.
Not like agency ebooks where the supplier sets the exact same price for *every* retailer everywhere, big or small.

In groceries, and most other product lines (say pbooks), the supplier negotiates wholesale prices with distributors or retailers and the retailer sets their own prices according to their market and their business model. It may be higher than the wholesaler price or it may be lower depending on the role the product plays in the retailer's basket pricing model. They are not automatically obligated to sell it at any specific MSRP.

Horizontal price maintenance by suppliers is a rarity and it is a rarity because until relatively recently it was illegal. Hopefully it soon will be again; it is never good for consumers and rarely good for retailers.

That was why I specified exactly which ones do set prices.
Though on beer and cokes, it actually depends on whether the customer is buying singles or cases. I know on beer if I see it for $18.95 a case, I can pretty much guarantee I can go anywhere that sells it and get that price. Note in the case of beer, the supplier especially Budweiser and Coors provide all the display materials.
Now if I am buying singles either in a bar or convenience store, the price is set by the retailer or on occasion the waitress. Side note: Did you know that if someone works for say Budweiser they cannot buy a Coors product especially if they are in their uniform.

Pricing is always interesting.

[ApK]

Originally Posted by Calenorn

Let's be precise and say that ebook 'rentals' are down.

That is neither precise nor accurate. It is a completely wrong, biased, mischaracterization of the realities of licensing intellectual property.

For supporting evidence and arguments, see every thread here on the topic for the last several years (like this one or this one for example) or consult a dictionary and a lawyer.