Mechanical Keyboards

[CRussel]

Originally Posted by Hitch

How do the keys LAST? That's the biggie for me--the lettering wears off in weeks, LITERALLY. Two months, at the outside, before the m goes. Then the s-d; then the k-l. Oh, and the "e" goes somewhere in there. Right now, I have a QWRY keyboard. {sigh}. This sucker isn't even 5 months old, IIRC. (I told the spousal unit I really ought to buy 3 at once!!!! He can't type by touch, so this is a HUGE issue for him.)



Again: how long does the keyboard lettering last? At this point, I'm almost more crazy about that, than anything else, but my wrists simply don't last on a straight-layout keyboard. I have to limit my nighttime typing, on my Lenovo TP Yoga, for this very reason.

P.S. I can't see that DB photo, but I'll copy the link and see if I can view it that way.

Thanks!
Hitch

On the Matias, at least, they are described as "laser-etched keys". Since that's what my Northgates have, I can give you a projected life on the keys. >15 years, and I type hard on mine every day, pretty much all day.

[Tex2002ans]

Originally Posted by Hitch

I haven't, but...I think that Tex2002ans has one. He loves it, IF (big caveat there) I'm remembering correctly that that's what he has.

No, I don't have the Freestyle2, but I did mention that one to you. You seemed to have required two things: durability and ergonomics.

Durability would be taken care of by the mechanical, DEFINITELY much higher quality than these cheapo rubber dome keyboards. These things are built to take many more presses (rubber domes might take ~1-10 million presses, while many mechanicals go 50+ million).

Ergonomics on a mechanical is much tougher... but there are a few mechanicals out there with this "two halves" format, allowing you to angle both halves to better fit your personal needs. There may be many others out there, but I am not too familiar with the ergonomic keyboards.

There is also one I recently ran across called the Matias Ergo Pro, which might be better than the Freestyle2 for some people:

http://matias.ca/ergopro/pc/

I personally use the Filco Majestouch 2, with MX Brown switches:

https://www.diatec.co.jp/en/det.php?prod_c=757

and I absolutely LOVE it. I am never going back to these non-mechanical keyboards ever again, and instantly feel disappointment in my fingers whenever I have to type on those junky rubber domes.

Originally Posted by Hitch

Again: how long does the keyboard lettering last? At this point, I'm almost more crazy about that, than anything else, but my wrists simply don't last on a straight-layout keyboard.

That is the nice thing too about these mechanicals, you can get some high quality keycaps separately if you wanted.

I would recommend visiting here for more information on all things Mechanical Keyboards (Reviews, How To Repair, Where to Purchase (keycaps, switches, everything), [...]):

https://www.reddit.com/r/MechanicalKeyboards/

The Mechanical Keyboards subreddit covers this in more depth than I ever could (even going into different plastic types, different shapes/angles of the keycaps, different methods of production, [...]).

If you are worried about the labels rubbing off, I would probably go with something with keycaps with the label on the side, like this:

http://i.imgur.com/WPoXMCo.jpg

As an example of the huge variety in JUST keycaps, the first half of this video just talks you through the different types, and what to look out for:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NADlUip6lMY

Originally Posted by CRussel

On the Matias, at least, they are described as "laser-etched keys". Since that's what my Northgates have, I can give you a projected life on the keys. >15 years, and I type hard on mine every day, pretty much all day.

Side Note: I had my old cheap crappy $10 Microsoft keyboard from years ago, and after years of typing, still looked brand new. Hitch was amazed that the character labels didn't rub off. You guys need to understand, she pounds on the keyboard like a savage from the old days. To top it off, typing up hundreds of emails a day in customer support... no normal keyboard can survive. :P

Originally Posted by Prestidigitweeze

Has anyone else found that owning a mechanical bluetooth keyboard leads to compulsive typing?

I was already on my computer for 12+ hours a day (heck, who are we kidding, every waking hour). I was convinced by a friend to finally go Mechanical, and I will never go back.

If you do a lot of typing every day, a few hundred dollar investment in a beastly keyboard will be doing your fingers/hands/wrists a huge favor. And think of all the clicky clicky!

[gmw]

Tex2002ans, thanks for the link and info about the Matias, I had not come across those before. Given the price I think I'd like to try one somewhere before buying, but it's an interesting keyboard.

[Tex2002ans]

Originally Posted by gmw

Tex2002ans, thanks for the link and info about the Matias, I had not come across those before.

I also came across this in-depth review on the subreddit just now, comparing the Matias Ergo Pro with a Microsoft Natural Keyboard:

https://www.reddit.com/r/MechanicalK...fter_using_it/

Side Note: After I typed out my large post, I see that incumbent has been talking about Matias this whole time.

Originally Posted by gmw

Given the price I think I'd like to try one somewhere before buying, but it's an interesting keyboard.

Probably a good idea, although I suspect with these ergonomic keyboards, you just won't get a proper feel until you are using it over an extended period of time.

[crich70]

My Tzumi bluetooth keyboard isn't showing any wear either. The letters look to be some sort of decal but they don't stick up on the surface of the keys either. No apparent wear is visible and I got it around the same time I got the Kindle Fire so i've had it at least 9 months now.

[gmw]

Originally Posted by Tex2002ans

[...]
Side Note: After I typed out my large post, I see that incumbent has been talking about Matias this whole time.
[...]

Ouch! Damn, where have my reading skills gone? Sorry incumbent, thank you for the link too!

[JSWolf]

Originally Posted by Hitch

I just want a decent ergo keyboard that lasts for more than 6 months. :-)

Hitch

https://www.trulyergonomic.com/store/index.php

Have a look at that one.

[gmw]

Originally Posted by JSWolf

https://www.trulyergonomic.com/store/index.php

Have a look at that one.

Yet another one I hadn't seen before. Thanks! Very interesting - fully programmable too! This would be fun to try and see how the column layout works - if it does work it could make the built-in numeric keypad actually usable.

[Rizla]

The Varmilo VB87M has big empty wasted spaces above the cursor keys. I see this on many keyboards on laptops these days. Why not put PGUP/DN there instead of...empty space!

Noisy keyboards are not so pleasant other people in the vicinity. Click, click, CLICK. Noise is so much more fun when it's ourselves making it, not so much fun when you are being disturbed by someone else.

[incumbent]

Originally Posted by Tex2002ans

Side Note: After I typed out my large post, I see that incumbent has been talking about Matias this whole time.

I currently use a Microsoft Sculpt at work and I hate it. Most of the keyboard is fine, I guess, but the top row of function keys and the Escape key have a horrible mushy feel to them and the editor I use most often uses the Escape key a lot so it's a lot like walking down the sidewalk and then realizing you just stepped in something.

The Matias is wonderful to use.

The only other options I'd consider is the Truly Ergonomic Mechanical:



…or the Ergo Dox:



The Ergo Dox is built on an open hardware spec and the keycaps are completely up to you, as are the switches.

[incumbent]

Originally Posted by Rizla

The Varmilo VB87M has big empty wasted spaces above the cursor keys. I see this on many keyboards on laptops these days. Why not put PGUP/DN there instead of...empty space!

Noisy keyboards are not so pleasant other people in the vicinity. Click, click, CLICK. Noise is so much more fun when it's ourselves making it, not so much fun when you are being disturbed by someone else.

That's precisely of the reasons I like the Matias so much, the Alps switches are nice to type on and don't generate a lot of noise. I have a keyboard with Cherry Blues that sounds like a freight train when I'm really whaling on it. My wife hears it across the house.

[gmw]

Originally Posted by incumbent

I currently use a Microsoft Sculpt at work and I hate it. Most of the keyboard is fine, I guess, but the top row of function keys and the Escape key have a horrible mushy feel to them and the editor I use most often uses the Escape key a lot so it's a lot like walking down the sidewalk and then realizing you just stepped in something.

The Matias is wonderful to use.[...]

You're right about the top line on the MS Sculpt - I have no idea what they were thinking when they did that.

A question about the Matias: What is the palm rest like? It looks almost too squishy, and I worry about it doing the same thing as my MS Sculpt - getting all grotty and horrible.

[incumbent]

Originally Posted by gmw

You're right about the top line on the MS Sculpt - I have no idea what they were thinking when they did that.

A question about the Matias: What is the palm rest like? It looks almost too squishy, and I worry about it doing the same thing as my MS Sculpt - getting all grotty and horrible.

Oh, no way the Sculpt has a gross habit of picking up all the skin cells that schluf off your body and presenting them as a buffet of biological grossness. The Matias is using something that feels like neoprene and actually has some gel-like give to it. Not a lot, but just a little. Like a temperpedic pillow in feel but not as much sinking. Doesn't get cruddy. May occasionally pick up a stray hair from my cat but looking at it right now it looks brand-new and I've had the keyboard for a month or two. The Sculpt got disgusting after a week of use and I had to take the damned thing off entirely.

FWIW my Sculpt is at my office under lighting that magnifies any and all grossness.

[gmw]

Thanks for the info.

Hmmm... I wonder how many sales we just made for Microsoft. It's a shame, because the main keyboard is, other other than the top line of keys and palm-wrest, a reasonable compromise between between the current fad for paper-thin keyboards and something usable - along with being more reasonably priced than these other options we are talking about.

I see Matias make the same mistake (for my use) as most others, of dedicating keys to cut, copy and paste - I never use them (my fingers are already programmed for Ctrl+x etc.) - so they are a complete waste for me. I'd say the home/end/page keys could take some getting used to, but that goes for pretty much any keyboard that's not completely standard. That Ctrl key next to the N is a bit odd.

What about this cable between the two halves? It looks a bit flimsy - but unlike the Kinesis it looks like it unplugs, and maybe that will make it less likely to break if something knocks half the keyboard off the desk?

[Hitch]

My dear buddy Tex2002ans (whose username I finally got right):

Side Note: I had my old cheap crappy $10 Microsoft keyboard from years ago, and after years of typing, still looked brand new. Hitch was amazed that the character labels didn't rub off. You guys need to understand, she pounds on the keyboard like a savage from the old days. To top it off, typing up hundreds of emails a day in customer support... no normal keyboard can survive. :P

A savage from the old days? SHEESH!

It is true, though. Apparently, I am just a whacker/pounder. I have no defense; learned on a manual (not electric) typewriter, a Royal or a SC, "back in the day," as they say. I've never gotten a lighter touch, although I thought I had back when I was first introduced to the then-heavenly IBM Selectric II with the memory. Sigh...such love at first sight, back then! (And then the IBM OS/6...gosh.)

To be fair, it's also true that I'm not typing in a vacuum. There are other people in the vicinity. Between my pounding AND "clicky-clicky" for some 300 emails a day, (some are primarily click for a macro, click to type a sig, click send, but still)...too much clicky-clicky might drive the Natives bonkers.

Hitch