Inside Amazon: Wrestling Big Ideas in a Bruising Workplace

[jgaiser]

Originally Posted by Angst

The salient point for me was Amazon's employee turnover ratio of <1 year. It doesn't matter if Amazon fired them or if they left of their own volition, such a high turnover does not speak well for Amazon's workplace.

Sigh... It's pretty obvious you've never worked in a high pressure, demanding job. Intel's turnover is probably pretty high too, but those that stayed will tell you it's a satisfying job. I know it was for me. Finding disgruntled employees is pretty easy for any business. You just don't get as many page views telling the stories of all the people that enjoy their job.

[conan50]

Originally Posted by Angst

The salient point for me was Amazon's employee turnover ratio of <1 year. It doesn't matter if Amazon fired them or if they left of their own volition, such a high turnover does not speak well for Amazon's workplace.

Yes, numbers don't lie. And the spin machine of Carney, senior execs, and the world's worst boss don't sway me. Reddit has numerous stories and posts by employees that predate this article that say the same thing.
Bezos
http://www.ituc-csi.org/amazon-s-jeff-bezos-wins-ituc-s
Carney
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jay_Carney
Same info about Amazon being a terrible employer from one month earlier than the Times piece
https://www.reddit.com/r/Seattle/com...om_an_old_man/

[Cinisajoy]

Originally Posted by fjtorres

Have you looked at the turnover at Google?
Microsoft?
B&N?
OVERSTOCK?
Wal-Mart?

Try to look at this one:

http://www.slate.com/blogs/business_..._stack_up.htmlhttp://<br /> <br /> Guess what? T...ngle-coverage/




But really, all you need to know is the NYT piece is by Streitfeld.

But those companies don't count because NO ONE uses them.
Another corporation has a change of employees quite frequently but because there are less than 10 employees per location, it isn't newsworthy.

[fjtorres]

Originally Posted by Cinisajoy

But those companies don't count because NO ONE uses them.
Another corporation has a change of employees quite frequently but because there are less than 10 employees per location, it isn't newsworthy.

Nope.
Nobody uses them at all.

[conan50]

The stories are going to start pouring out now.
Here are a few:

To say that the job was stressful isn't an adequate description of the pressure under which I worked. Every day, we were expected to do more with less and were constantly compared to people in Third World countries who cost less than we did. The day I left, I cried tears of joy. I actually get to spend time with my family now. I'm also pursuing teaching. When I leave this planet, I don't want my contribution to be increased shareholder value.

You hit the nail on the head. I was in leadership, too. I remember being so happy when I was promoted. Then I saw all of the back-biting and clawing that everyone did to keep moving up. It started to eat at my soul after a while.

https://www.reddit.com/r/technology/...utal_new_york/

[DiapDealer]

Originally Posted by conan50

And the spin machine of Carney, senior execs, and the world's worst boss don't sway me.

Of course not. Not when you're unwilling to believe anything that doesn't jive with the bias you came in the door with. Bad press confirms that bias--so why look deeper?

The fact that the article in question was written by a man whose hatred for Amazon is legendary should be a dead giveaway as to its "objectivity."

[jgaiser]

Originally Posted by conan50

The stories are going to start pouring out now.
Here are a few:

Ah. Reddit. Where everybody gets their objective analysis of current events.

[Angst]

Originally Posted by jgaiser

Sigh... It's pretty obvious you've never worked in a high pressure, demanding job. Intel's turnover is probably pretty high too, but those that stayed will tell you it's a satisfying job. I know it was for me. Finding disgruntled employees is pretty easy for any business. You just don't get as many page views telling the stories of all the people that enjoy their job.

Intel is tied at #168 with a median employee retention rate or 4.3 years.
Amazon is tied at #465 with a median employee retention rate or 1.0 years.

I suspect Intel is a whole lot less "high pressure" than Amazon. If you are losing 50% of your workforce every year, something is fishy.

stats

[Cinisajoy]

Some scored higher and some scored lower than I expected.
I am curious as to one thing. Median means middle, so is that data from all employees or just the middle earners. Is there a certain pay that is leaving more than others?
Are they being fired or leaving voluntarily?
Is the job not what they were expecting?
What is their track record for other jobs?
Is the person upset because the long time employee gets more vacation time?
And about a million other questions.
I need way more data to give an opinion on how Amazon treats employees.

[shalym]

Originally Posted by Angst

Intel is tied at #168 with a median employee retention rate or 4.3 years.
Amazon is tied at #465 with a median employee retention rate or 1.0 years.

I suspect Intel is a whole lot less "high pressure" than Amazon. If you are losing 50% of your workforce every year, something is fishy.

stats

Hmmm...All of the articles I've read hold up Google as an ideal place to work. According to the list at your link, though, the median retention rate there is 1.1--only slightly better than Amazon's. Maybe ''retention rate" isn't as indicative of working conditions as you are implying it is.

Or maybe google is just as "bad" as Amazon is?

Shari

[Anthem]

Originally Posted by shalym

Hmmm...All of the articles I've read hold up Google as an ideal place to work. According to the list at your link, though, the median retention rate there is 1.1--only slightly better than Amazon's. Maybe ''retention rate" isn't as indicative of working conditions as you are implying it is.

Or maybe google is just as "bad" as Amazon is?

Shari

Great point. Shows you how careful we have to be when looking at our nerdy "data".

Originally Posted by fjtorres

Nope.
Nobody uses them at all.

SO correct!

I haven't used BN since last week, Walmart since yesterday, and Google and Microsoft since earlier today!

[Cinisajoy]

Originally Posted by Anthem

Great point. Shows you how careful we have to be when looking at our nerdy "data".



SO correct!

I haven't used BN since last week, Walmart since yesterday, and Google and Microsoft since earlier today!

Come to think of it, Walmart was yesterday, posting from Google right now and used Google to look up Microsoft Office just a few minutes ago.

[DiapDealer]

Originally Posted by Angst

If you are losing 50% of your workforce every year, something is fishy.

Or you've created a plug 'n' play business environment where retention is irrelevant since there's no shortage of people waiting to step in. And technically, they're not "losing" 50% of their workforce every year. Their workforce remains constant ... only the individuals change. It certainly may be unorthodox (by yesterday's business-measuring metrics), but it doesn't automatically mean "fishy."

[theducks]

Originally Posted by Angst

Intel is tied at #168 with a median employee retention rate or 4.3 years.
Amazon is tied at #465 with a median employee retention rate or 1.0 years.

I suspect Intel is a whole lot less "high pressure" than Amazon. If you are losing 50% of your workforce every year, something is fishy.

stats

Boom- Bust (Hire - Layoff) was a standard practice here in the Silicon Valley in the 60's.
Hint! Intel started (and is still) here.

Advantage (to corporate): No seniority buildup (Vacation days, wages). No Pension (when there was one) vesting.

HP was King of caring to their employees back then. The HP Way
Do honest work and you had a job for as long as you wanted.

[jgaiser]

Originally Posted by theducks

Boom- Bust (Hire - Layoff) was a standard practice here in the Silicon Valley in the 60's.
Hint! Intel started (and is still) here.

Advantage (to corporate): No seniority buildup (Vacation days, wages). No Pension (when there was one) vesting.

Sigh.. As much as I've been talking up Intel, this... Internet bubble burst in early 2001. My division shut down. Two months looking internally for a new job. 20 years experience. 56 years of age. Expect to be vested in the following year. Intel ended up making an offer I couldn't refuse. No hard feelings really, but damn.