Ebook taxes called unfair by publishers

[fjtorres]

Originally Posted by HarryT

But some made the transition successfully. Eg Karl Benz went from running a bicycle repair shop to successfully manufacturing motor cars.

Reinvention requires a desire to move forward and adapt rather than pining for "the good old days" and an ability to look forward instead of backwards.

Quiet a few carriage builders from the 19th century adapted nicely to the automobile era and at least one, FISHER BODY, survived into modern times.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fisher_Body

It's really a mindset thing, rather like the difference between the ancient Greeks' view of time and the more common modern view. The Greeks saw time as a river where people ride facing backwards; the future unknowable, the present crystal clear, the past fading in the mist of distance. The more modern view allows for the boat's passengers' willingness to turn around to face the approaching future and even occasionally use binoculars.

It would not surprise me that when flying cars finally, ahem, take off, some will have bodies from the Fisher Corporation.

Big corporate publishing resides in a very parochial world very different from the real world of smaller publishers and international publishers. And very different from the tech world where constant change is the norm, both expected and desired. The publishers quoted in the NYT report may or not welcome the transition to Ebooks but they do seem to appreciate the need to adjust for it.

[Little.Egret]

Originally Posted by GERGE

What is needed is to classify e-books as books by law, not by common sense.

That in fact was part of the problem since we have multi-media "e-books" with included music and video as well as links to websites with images, music and video, yet the governments wanted to charge the standard rate for music downloads, Apps and games.

The Italians said that any "e-book" with an ISBN would be charged a lower rate of VAT. The is scope for misuse here I suggest.

[SteveEisenberg]

Originally Posted by fjtorres

Big corporate publishing resides in a very parochial world very different from the real world of smaller publishers and international publishers.

Why is it that when I read a positive big five book review in the (horrors!) New York Times, I can generally reserve the eBook from the Brooklyn Public Library, or one of our Pennsylvania public libraries? And why is that when it's from one of the smaller or international publishers, I generally cannot? Is it because innovation, for those publishers, means to focus on consumers rather than readers in mass? If that's the innovation, I'm against it.

The most recent title added to my like-to-read list, that isn't available as an eBook at any price, is published by an imprint of the supposed paragon of innovative publishing, Amazon:

http://www.amazon.com/Martial-Bliss-...=Martial+Bliss

Here is a small-publisher title my wife Barbara (and maybe me as well) would like to e-Read, but can't, because, unlike virtually all big-five titles, it's paper-only:

http://www.amazon.com/Pioneer-Girl-L...ioneer+girl%5D

Maybe the authors I like are bootlicking liars, but I continue to read in their acknowledgements about how the big publisher editor transformed the manuscript in matters large and small. From the book I'm reading now:

http://www.penguinrandomhouse.com/bo...topher-dickey/

Our Man in Charleston, which was very long in contemplation, research, and writing, would never have been finished were it not for Kevin Doughten, my truly extraordinary editor at Crown. When we began working together in late 2013, the narrative—indeed, the narratives—were spread all over the map from Alabama to Boston to the Bight of Benin. Her Majesty’s Consul Robert Bunch was the central figure, to be sure, but he was lost in a crowd of fascinating characters.

Kevin, who looked up every footnote . . .

The big publishers don't need to embark on the near-hopeless task of moving from buggy whips to automobiles. They've been releasing their titles as eBooks for many years. They do need to figure out how to preserve their key skills -- finding promising book proposals, taking on risk by paying advances, and radically improving manuscripts -- during the digital transition. So far, from where I read, they are doing it well.

[theducks]

How many BPH actually PRINT (own and operate the Presses) their own books?
How many set their own type (digital plate making)?

Hasn't the actual Production of physical books been contracted out for years?

From what I have seen, BPH still perform needed services

Editorial (Selection, polishing)

Art department (face it, many self pub covers are almost as bad as the 40's pulp days. A few are very good.) Page layout.

Marketing (The Spin Mill ) and delivery (digital format distribution servers)

[fjtorres]

Originally Posted by theducks

Art department (face it, many self pub covers are almost as bad as the 40's pulp days. A few are very good.) Page layout.

Marketing (The Spin Mill ) and delivery (digital format distribution servers)

The spin mill isn't marketing, it is promotion.
Marketing is proactive; promotion is reactive.
Makes a difference.
http://451words.tumblr.com/post/8919...ney-never-wins

And covers?
Heh.

Yeah, right.

http://readingthepast.com/gallery/reusable-covers.htm

(Did you hear about the bestselling romance novelist saddled with a cover featuring a woman with three arms? That wasn't even representative of the book?)

http://www.thepassivevoice.com/07/20...k-cover-twins/

Cloned covers is a recurring joke.

Every year we see a new cover fad added to the tried and true repeaters:
http://www.theatlantic.com/entertain...-alike/259884/

As for digital distribution? KDP, KOBO, SMASHWORDS, DIRECT2DIGITAL, XIN XII, and a dozen more...

(Xin xii is particularly relevant here because they actively target the smaller ebook markets:

http://www.xinxii.com/)

Oh, and print distribution? Ingram Spark, Lightning Source, Baker&Taylor.

[shalym]

Originally Posted by SteveEisenberg

Why is it that when I read a positive big five book review in the (horrors!) New York Times, I can generally reserve the eBook from the Brooklyn Public Library, or one of our Pennsylvania public libraries? And why is that when it's from one of the smaller or international publishers, I generally cannot? Is it because innovation, for those publishers, means to focus on consumers rather than readers in mass? If that's the innovation, I'm against it.

I have no idea what this means. Are you saying that small publishers don't end up in the library? Have you checked to see if the book is available for your library to buy, and if so, have you asked your library to purchase it?

The most recent title added to my like-to-read list, that isn't available as an eBook at any price, is published by an imprint of the supposed paragon of innovative publishing, Amazon:

http://www.amazon.com/Martial-Bliss-...=Martial+Bliss

Umm...createspace isn't actually an "imprint" of Amazon any more than Kindle Direct Publishing is. Createspace is a print on demand service for self publishers.

Here is a small-publisher title my wife Barbara (and maybe me as well) would like to e-Read, but can't, because, unlike virtually all big-five titles, it's paper-only:

http://www.amazon.com/Pioneer-Girl-L...ioneer+girl%5D

I would love to read that, too. I've contacted the publisher and requested that it be made available in a digital version.

Upon doing more research into the book, I found this from the publisher:

Originally Posted by South Dakota Historical Society Press:

Will there be an eBook version of Pioneer Girl: The Annotated Autobiography?

Pioneer Girl: The Annotated Autobiography is a complex book, filled with annotations, appendices, images, and Wilder’s original text, and the development of a faithful eBook version compatible with the most popular eBook devices will be a complicated process. The South Dakota Historical Society Press has not yet set a date for the eventual release of Pioneer Girl: The Annotated Autobiography as an eBook.
http://pioneergirlproject.org/order/pioneer-girl-faqs/

For someone who always talks about his love of non-fiction and research based books, I'm surprised that you don't do more research into things that are important to you.

Shari

[ZodWallop]

Originally Posted by theducks

Art department (face it, many self pub covers are almost as bad as the 40's pulp days. A few are very good.)

The pulps had WAY better covers than many self published books

[SteveEisenberg]

Originally Posted by shalym

Are you saying that small publishers don't end up in the library?

No. If praised, by paid identified reviewers, in mainstream newspapers and magazines, they do. This is true of the paper book, and true of the eBook -- if it exists.

Originally Posted by shalym

Umm...createspace isn't actually an "imprint" of Amazon any more than Kindle Direct Publishing is. Createspace is a print on demand service for self publishers.

I guess it depends on your definition of an imprint and a publisher. Createspace functions include printing, and, in cooperation with the rest of Amazon.com, Inc., publicity, distribution, cover design, and paying royalties. Of course, CreateSpace/Amazon doesn't do all imprint/publisher functions.

For someone who always talks about his love of non-fiction and research based books, I'm surprised that you don't do more research into things that are important to you.

I do miss a lot, but I knew that. It's been more than six months since the print version of Pioneer Girl hit number two on a NY Times bestseller list, and its small publisher still has not come out with an eBook. And, when they do, it sounds likely to have fancy features that won't work with eInk and in which we have no interest. A big-five publisher would have eInk available for both consumers and libraries.

[shalym]

Originally Posted by SteveEisenberg

No. If praised, by paid identified reviewers, in mainstream newspapers and magazines, they do. This is true of the paper book, and true of the eBook -- if it exists.

Ok--that's the opposite of what you said in your original post. You said

Why is it that when I read a positive big five book review in the (horrors!) New York Times, I can generally reserve the eBook from the Brooklyn Public Library, or one of our Pennsylvania public libraries? And why is that when it's from one of the smaller or international publishers, I generally cannot?

which implies that you can't find books from smaller publishers even if they're reviewed by the New York Times. Which is it?

I guess it depends on your definition of an imprint and a publisher. Createspace functions include printing, and, in cooperation with the rest of Amazon.com, Inc., publicity, distribution, cover design, and paying royalties. Of course, CreateSpace/Amazon doesn't do all imprint/publisher functions.

I believe that those are all extra services that are paid for directly by the author. I may be mistaken, but I don't believe that's how it works when your book is accepted by a publisher. Createspace can also be used for music and movies. It's a *service* for artists to distribute their work, that also has some extra, add-on services that you can pay for. I may be mistaken, but I didn't think that was how publishers worked. Here is the page that describes how authors are paid on createspace: https://www.createspace.com/Products/Book/Royalties.jsp Notice that distribution costs extra. Is that really how publishers work???

I do miss a lot, but I knew that. It's been more than six months since the print version of Pioneer Girl hit number two on a NY Times bestseller list, and its small publisher still has not come out with an eBook. And, when they do, it sounds likely to have fancy features that won't work with eInk and in which we have no interest. A big-five publisher would have eInk available for both consumers and libraries.

Do you mean like this book which is published by Doubleday? http://www.barnesandnoble.com/w/comp...=9780679406419 Oops--it's not actually available in digital format at all, even though it's been 25 years since it was published! How can that be?? Isn't Doubleday a fairly big publisher owned by mega publisher Bertelsmann? Maybe it's because this book is hard to translate to digital format? What about this one, written by a Nobel Peace Prize winner and published by an imprint of Macmillan? http://www.barnesandnoble.com/w/nigh...=9780809073641 Again...it seems as if there would have been PLENTY of time to publish the ebook edition if they intended to. Face facts, please. Availability of a book in digital form has NOTHING to do with the size of the publisher. It can have an impact on it's availability in libraries, but it doesn't have to.

Last but not least, in my opinion, Createspace is NOT a publisher. They are a distributor for artist's works, and they also offer other services that are paid for separately from the distribution. They take an artist's work and put it into paper, CD and DVD (they also offer services for music and movies).

Shari

[HarryT]

Originally Posted by shalym

Do you mean like this book which is published by Doubleday? http://www.barnesandnoble.com/w/comp...=9780679406419 Oops--it's not actually available in digital format at all, even though it's been 25 years since it was published! How can that be??

It may be that the publisher doesn't have the eBook rights, particularly if the book was first published 25 years ago. Publishing contracts didn't generally cover digital rights in those days. I've no idea whether or not that's true in the case of this particular book, of course, but it's a reasonably high-probability answer to your question "How can that be?".

[shalym]

Originally Posted by HarryT

It may be that the publisher doesn't have the eBook rights, particularly if the book was first published 25 years ago. Publishing contracts didn't generally cover digital rights in those days. I've no idea whether or not that's true in the case of this particular book, of course, but it's a reasonably high-probability answer to your question "How can that be?".

It may be, but in this case, I think it's more likely that it's because the book is 90% images, and won't translate well into e-ink. Kind of the same reason that the publisher of the Laura Ingalls Wilder autobiography gave.

Originally Posted by South Dakota Historical Society Press:

Will there be an eBook version of Pioneer Girl: The Annotated Autobiography?

Pioneer Girl: The Annotated Autobiography is a complex book, filled with annotations, appendices, images, and Wilder’s original text, and the development of a faithful eBook version compatible with the most popular eBook devices will be a complicated process. The South Dakota Historical Society Press has not yet set a date for the eventual release of Pioneer Girl: The Annotated Autobiography as an eBook.
http://pioneergirlproject.org/order/pioneer-girl-faqs/

Shari

[HarryT]

Originally Posted by shalym

It may be, but in this case, I think it's more likely that it's because the book is 90% images, and won't translate well into e-ink.

Yes, if that's the case, that's certainly a very likely reason that there's no ebook.

[fjtorres]

Originally Posted by shalym

Last but not least, in my opinion, Createspace is NOT a publisher. They are a distributor for artist's works, and they also offer other services that are paid for separately from the distribution. They take an artist's work and put it into paper, CD and DVD (they also offer services for music and movies).

Shari

You are absolutely correct.
Createspace is no more a publisher than Lightning Source, Spark, Smashwords, Xin Xii, Kobo, Nook, or KDP. They are just distribution service providers.

A lot of people who should know better keep on conflating distribution services with old-school publishers (like the flap when Overdrive added Smashwords titles to their library services and listed Smashwords as "publisher". Or when the AU/AG crowd rail about Amazon promoting "their" titles when complaining about KDP titles.

These days all the services tradpubs and record companies (nominally) offer in their bundled contracts are available unbundled from hundreds of professional service providers at reasonable cost. It does not make any of them publishers; the publisher is whoever controls the copyright commercially. And those services don't; they're just hired help.

The way it works is those unbundled services dramatically lower the barrier to entry into publishing (books, music, even video games) and lower it most dramatically for the digital formats. The ripples from the ongoing proliferation of these honest service providers are spreading far and wide. They are most noticeable in NorthAmerica and the UK but they are a worldwide change. Music and gaming are ahead of the adoption curve than ebooks but there is no inherent reason why ebooks won't evolve the same way, absent *artificial* constraints.

Artificial constraints like uneven taxes and regulations intended to protect big and entrenched players from smaller players interested in exploiting these new emerging businesses.

Which brings us back to the NYT piece.

In the NY publishing universe it has become pretty much an article of faith that ebooks (and especially cheap ebooks) are a threat to *all* publishers when the on-the-ground reality is more nuanced; the unbundled service providers can be (and are) a threat to biggest of publishers but further down the pecking order they offer opportunities for traditional publishers and many of them can and do use them. For covers, editing, formatting, and especially *distribution*.

Createspace and Lightning Source and the like aren't just for indies; they also serve the smaller tradpubs by helping them keep their backlist in print, by distributing smaller volume releases, by expanding their reach globally.

This is an ongoing reality in music and gaming.
And also in books.
The game is no longer skewed quite as strongly in favor of the giants.

[ZodWallop]

Originally Posted by shalym

What about this one, written by a Nobel Peace Prize winner and published by an imprint of Macmillan? http://www.barnesandnoble.com/w/nigh...=9780809073641 Again...it seems as if there would have been PLENTY of time to publish the ebook edition if they intended to.

What's this?
Night
Dawn
Day

[SteveEisenberg]

Originally Posted by HarryT

Yes, if that's the case, that's certainly a very likely reason that there's no ebook.

In the early 1930's, Laura Ingalls Wilder's agent offered her memoirs to publishers without success. I'm pretty sure it was intended to a narrative text that would fit, today, into the eBook format. If her survivors had offered the text to a big-five publisher, in the eBook era, and they agreed to publish it, I think there would be an eBook.

Originally Posted by fjtorres

In the NY publishing universe it has become pretty much an article of faith that ebooks (and especially cheap ebooks) are a threat to *all* publishers . . .

And yet they release the eBook on the same day as the hardback, and commonly sell eBooks at paperbook-competing prices once the paperback is out.

I would compare this eBook article of faith to the political views of "the NY publishing universe." That article of faith, or whatever you want to call it, doesn't prevent them from publishing the campaign biographies of candidates of both major US political parties.

Of course, there are people who vote for both major parties in any big, or medium-sized, American corporation -- even in Manhattan. Just as there are likely people in every medium-sized company, publisher or otherwise, who like or dislike eBooks. I would try to look at the behavior, not the motive.