Where is the enhanced typesetting update?

[howyoudoin]

Originally Posted by cvkemp

I do not understand how it was Amazon's goof up, when they say right on the description of the PW3 that there will be a new type set engine coming in the future. They never said when just in the future.

"Coming soon—All-new typesetting engine lays out words just as the author intended for beautiful rendering of pages. With improved character spacing and the addition of hyphenation, justification, kerning, ligatures, and drop cap support, our best-in-class typography helps you read faster with less eyestrain"

By the way to most of us Coming Soon means in the future. When in the future more than likely they do not even know yet.

How long is an acceptable "coming soon"? It's 41 days (and counting) since the sales were opened.

[cvkemp]

Originally Posted by howyoudoin

How long is an acceptable "coming soon"? It's 41 days (and counting) since the sales were opened.

I have seen it with Microsoft, apple, and others be anywhere for 24 months down to 6 months or so. Coming soon just means they are working on it and as soon as it works correctly or close to it they will release it.

What do you prefer something that works so you can read, or for the to release it so soon and brick your device. I have seen what can happen to devices that were pushed firmware and software updates to early, and it is not very pretty.

[eschwartz]

Originally Posted by howyoudoin

Methinks some people are treating a valid criticism of Amazon's goof up as a personal affront.

"I chose this device to read on, and so there's no way it couldn't be absolutely perfect!"

How odd.

The way I see it, a number of people are treating Amazon's goof-up as a personal affront. On the grounds that such a feature is an integral part of the device.
(And when you are arguing on the same side as JSWolf and the topic is Kindle-and-features-that-Kobos-have, you might be well-advised to think who your supporters are. )


And some people are saying that comparisons to the Gutenberg Bible and cars without engines are pathetically inaccurate.
And then getting attacked and accused of being fanbois.


I'm not entirely sure you realize who you should have been talking about. But I think I know who has been more reasonable.

---

Now, IIRC this thread was supposed to be about anticipating/agonizing over the update and/or lateness, with perhaps a side venture into "whaddya think it'll be like?" -- not attacking each other over misunderstood car analogies and perceived fanboism.

Moderator Notice

Also, I am more than happy to delete the post of anyone whose profile indicates they own a Kobo and not a Kindle, and then proceeds to criticize the Kindle for not being as typographically friendly as a Kobo or Gutenberg Bible.
That topic has been hashed to death already, it just causes fights, and as an extra bonus it is wildly offtopic.

[howyoudoin]

Originally Posted by eschwartz

How odd.

The way I see it, a number of people are treating Amazon's goof-up as a personal affront. On the grounds that such a feature is an integral part of the device.
(And when you are arguing on the same side as JSWolf and the topic is Kindle-and-features-that-Kobos-have, you might be well-advised to think who your supporters are. )


And some people are saying that comparisons to the Gutenberg Bible and cars without engines are pathetically inaccurate.
And then getting attacked and accused of being fanbois.


I'm not entirely sure you realize who you should have been talking about. But I think I know who has been more reasonable.

I know who I'm talking about, eschwartz. I love Amazon. I buy my books from them. I also own a kindle that I like and can't bring myself to sell. The reason I primarily use the kobo now is not because I'm opposed to Amazon, but because I think this Kobo model is a better device (personal opinion, not meant to be a statement of fact). Amazon's goof up is not a personal affront to me. I'd like them to remain a company that doesn't cause frustrations of this nature because I might very well buy a kindle again the next time I decide to upgrade. Play the post, not the poster. The point matters more than whose opinion the point seems to align with. I do think JSWolf and HarryT are partisan on many such topics, and I don't really remember who's said what here but if he's said what I think he has, then he's right here, like it or not

E-readers are released once a year. In the context of that cycle and considering the fact that advanced typesetting is a major reason for some people to make the purchase of the latest model, it is reasonable for people to consider a delay of a month as something to crib about. It is extremely strange to see such aggressive responses in this thread to people airing their grievance. Being annoyed is human. Telling them that they shouldn't be annoyed is a counter-productive response, and IMO reflects on the defenders more than on the annoyed. Why is it important to some people that other people not crib about their frustration with Amazon? It feels like stepping into a forum dedicated to the cult of Apple, if you know what I mean. This is not the mobileread I knew a year back. The forum's become a lot more intolerant of late.

[eschwartz]

I was actually suggesting that you are perhaps defending the wrong people. I wasn't saying anything about you.


I just think it is a bit much when people compare a Kindle without the "coming soon" features advertised, to a car without an engine.
That is my yardstick for people feeling a "personal affront". Not people pointing out that the device is still just as usable as it claimed to be in as-sold condition... however much that statement may be irritating to people who just really really want to see the update they have been looking forward to.

[howyoudoin]

Originally Posted by eschwartz

I was actually suggesting that you are perhaps defending the wrong people. I wasn't saying anything about you.


I just think it is a bit much when people compare a Kindle without the "coming soon" features advertised, to a car without an engine.
That is my yardstick for people feeling a "personal affront". Not people pointing out that the device is still just as usable as it claimed to be in as-sold condition... however much that statement may be irritating to people who just really really want to see the update they have been looking forward to.

Yeah, that's fair. I can't say that my remark didn't add fuel to the fire too

[ZodWallop]

Originally Posted by cvkemp

By the way to most of us Coming Soon means in the future. When in the future more than likely they do not even know yet.

Yeah. Duke Nukem Forever was listed as 'coming soon' and hey, it came out

[GERGE]

When an ad says that a feature is coming soon, you expect it to come soon. We are all agreed on this simple point, right? Soon might well be the next season, no problems there.

But... when you include this same advert together with an another coming soon ad, you need to clarify that there are degrees of coming soon effects there. That they are different effects waiting for their turn on the spell stack of the board =).

Paperwhite 3 said that it is coming soon. At the same page, we were also told that Kindle devices are finally getting proper typesetting and that is also coming soon. If half of the people (which I still believe is a very generous estimate, it should be more like almost all the people. Check Paperwhite 3 is coming topics again if you want proof of this) understood that there were only one coming soon there and proper typesetting is coming with the Paperwhite 3; then this entirely Amazon's fault here.

I don't really have a stake here, while I buy almost all my books from Amazon (with some Google Play Books here and there), I don't own a Kindle. I only want to see Bookerly's modifications. But I could easily understand everyone's frustrations. Protecting Amazon at this point is a little fanboyish, you must admit.

[mandy314]

The enhanced typesetting is an enhanced typesetting.

This message will make sense after a OTA edit available in a few weeks.

or

The meaning of this message is coming soon.

or

For now this message is absolutely bonkers.
(and so is this thread, but mostly good fun to while away the waiting time)

[eschwartz]

@GERGE,

Don't get me wrong -- I think Amazon was amazingly stupid for muddling this.
Quite frankly, they should never have said a word, and definitely should not have brought out the banner ads, until they had something ready to be released.



But... I don't remember for sure, as I wasn't tremendously interested (I like my current Kindle well enough)... I could've sworn I came away, even then, with the impression that the typesetting engine was going to be released sometime after the Kindle itself, via a firmware update?

Assuming they did accurately describe it I kinda sorta feel that if someone didn't figure it out, it is their fault.
That would be because I have a general disapproval of people not doing a cursory examination of the facts. (This is always a must when dealing with hyped-up product advertisement.)
Nothing to do with Amazon, I just hate Stupid. I also wish it were realistic to hope that stupidity would become an imprisonable offense . I do recognize that my opinion is rather... controversial.


That goes for Amazon's marketing director as well. Press has never really been Amazon's strong point, and it just bit them.

[cerem0ny]

Originally Posted by howyoudoin

I know who I'm talking about, eschwartz. I love Amazon. I buy my books from them. I also own a kindle that I like and can't bring myself to sell. The reason I primarily use the kobo now is not because I'm opposed to Amazon, but because I think this Kobo model is a better device (personal opinion, not meant to be a statement of fact). Amazon's goof up is not a personal affront to me. I'd like them to remain a company that doesn't cause frustrations of this nature because I might very well buy a kindle again the next time I decide to upgrade. Play the post, not the poster. The point matters more than whose opinion the point seems to align with. I do think JSWolf and HarryT are partisan on many such topics, and I don't really remember who's said what here but if he's said what I think he has, then he's right here, like it or not

E-readers are released once a year. In the context of that cycle and considering the fact that advanced typesetting is a major reason for some people to make the purchase of the latest model, it is reasonable for people to consider a delay of a month as something to crib about. It is extremely strange to see such aggressive responses in this thread to people airing their grievance. Being annoyed is human. Telling them that they shouldn't be annoyed is a counter-productive response, and IMO reflects on the defenders more than on the annoyed. Why is it important to some people that other people not crib about their frustration with Amazon? It feels like stepping into a forum dedicated to the cult of Apple, if you know what I mean. This is not the mobileread I knew a year back. The forum's become a lot more intolerant of late.

So true howyoudoin. I'm refusing to even post in the thread any more because of some of the mean spiritedness that just came out of nowhere. Totally caught me offguard lol. And to be quite honest, I don't even particularly care that this update is not here yet, it'll arrive when it arrives, I can wait, I just wanted a place to discuss the finer points of typography, fonts, the new engine etc. as theyre things I am keenly looking forward to and love playing around with. I love my kindle and most importantly I love my books, never expected to be attacked or to create such bad will here. Calm down people

[eschwartz]

Originally Posted by howyoudoin

Play the post, not the poster. The point matters more than whose opinion the point seems to align with. I do think JSWolf and HarryT are partisan on many such topics, and I don't really remember who's said what here but if he's said what I think he has, then he's right here, like it or not

Oh, he is no doubt right -- but I don't think people need to hear the partisan complaining anymore.

E-readers are released once a year. In the context of that cycle and considering the fact that advanced typesetting is a major reason for some people to make the purchase of the latest model, it is reasonable for people to consider a delay of a month as something to crib about. It is extremely strange to see such aggressive responses in this thread to people airing their grievance. Being annoyed is human. Telling them that they shouldn't be annoyed is a counter-productive response, and IMO reflects on the defenders more than on the annoyed. Why is it important to some people that other people not crib about their frustration with Amazon? It feels like stepping into a forum dedicated to the cult of Apple, if you know what I mean. This is not the mobileread I knew a year back. The forum's become a lot more intolerant of late.

Originally Posted by cerem0ny

So true howyoudoin. I'm refusing to even post in the thread any more because of some of the mean spiritedness that just came out of nowhere. Totally caught me offguard lol. And to be quite honest, I don't even particularly care that this update is not here yet, it'll arrive when it arrives, I can wait, I just wanted a place to discuss the finer points of typography, fonts, the new engine etc. as theyre things I am keenly looking forward to and love playing around with. I love my kindle and most importantly I love my books, never expected to be attacked or to create such bad will here. Calm down people

Yep. I don't understand why people can't just leave it at "personally I don't care much about this update, sorry". People sometimes like different things...
But typography concerns have never been a mainstream concern of Kindle owners. Rest assured the things that most Kindle owners are concerned about become topics of loud disappointment when Amazon messes up, and nobody disapproves of those posts.

[HarryT]

Originally Posted by eschwartz

I could've sworn I came away, even then, with the impression that the typesetting engine was going to be released sometime after the Kindle itself, via a firmware update?

It's the only feature in the PW3 description that's labelled (in bold, no less) as "Coming Soon". That would seem to make it pretty clear that you won't get it now.

[Grey Ram]

I think someone did drop the ball at amazon in this case. I just bought a new PW3 from amazon.com.mx and the information is even more confusing over here.
The main page for the PW3 mentions the new Bookerly typeface (and nothing more) under the heading "Last generation reading experience", but when you click on the "see more" link, you are presented with a description of improved spacing and hypenation in thousands of books without any hint at "coming soon", it is not possible to infer that the last feature is not present in the shipping PW3.
I already knew that when I bought mine, and personaly don't care when the new features are available; but I do think this is not the way to handle their introduction.