Where is the enhanced typesetting update?

cerem0ny · 07-23-2015, 12:21 AM

Okay, so there are thousands of books with it activated, the paperwhite 3 has been out for yonks and so has the new font, the IOS app and the Kindle Fire already have it - when can I see it on my Kindle? I have seriously been waiting for ages with bated breath- I simply can't wait to see it. It's been months now since it's been announced right? So where is it? Does anybody have absolutely any idea? I'm refreshing the amazon updates page like, every hour and I have a sneaky suspicion I'm getting my hopes up for no reason

cybmole · 07-23-2015, 01:27 AM

every hour seems a tad OCD.

why not contact amazon and ask them ?

HarryT · 07-23-2015, 01:54 AM

What did Amazon say when you asked them? They are the only ones who know.

mandy314 · 07-23-2015, 02:32 AM

Not the finest hour of Amazon's marketing imho. Here in Germany the pre-release announcement touted the PW3 with its "book-like" reading experience - you know, "paper-white" and "book-like". This was picked up by the media. Most did a "copy and paste" job, but some tried to explain the revolutionary new typesetting engine, which was funny in most cases. Amazon's info pages were changed every other day iirc. At first you could get the impression of Amazon having "invented" kerning, ligatures, hyphenation with this new Bookerly font - at the end you learned that "coming soon" for the device was different from "coming soon" for the typesetting lark.

Furthermore - uncommon for new Kindles the PW3 hit retail shops within days of the net release. And there were/are quite visible (but somewhat darkish) Kindle ads on the street and in newspapers etc.

So what? I can see Mono/Linotype not being amused; the fonts they have on the PW support kerning/ligatures out of the box. The OSS libs Amazon's rendering engines are build around can handle all the "new" features for years. So what is Amazon doing - "working hard" at this revolutionary typesetting engine (and re-processing ebooks in the process)? I really don't know. The Fire device and the iOS app were used for beta testing - it seems. But the users are more or less quiet concerning the "book-like" experience.

Now we are more than three weeks past the PW3 release. High time to put in my piece of speculation. So here it is: we won't see any new Kindle devices this year. Instead there will be a big firmware rollout in the fall with all the new typesetting features. And they will be breath-taking...

cerem0ny · 07-23-2015, 03:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mandy314

Not the finest hour of Amazon's marketing imho. Here in Germany the pre-release announcement touted the PW3 with its "book-like" reading experience - you know, "paper-white" and "book-like". This was picked up by the media. Most did a "copy and paste" job, but some tried to explain the revolutionary new typesetting engine, which was funny in most cases. Amazon's info pages were changed every other day iirc. At first you could get the impression of Amazon having "invented" kerning, ligatures, hyphenation with this new Bookerly font - at the end you learned that "coming soon" for the device was different from "coming soon" for the typesetting lark.

Furthermore - uncommon for new Kindles the PW3 hit retail shops within days of the net release. And there were/are quite visible (but somewhat darkish) Kindle ads on the street and in newspapers etc.

So what? I can see Mono/Linotype not being amused; the fonts they have on the PW support kerning/ligatures out of the box. The OSS libs Amazon's rendering engines are build around can handle all the "new" features for years. So what is Amazon doing - "working hard" at this revolutionary typesetting engine (and re-processing ebooks in the process)? I really don't know. The Fire device and the iOS app were used for beta testing - it seems. But the users are more or less quiet concerning the "book-like" experience.

Now we are more than three weeks past the PW3 release. High time to put in my piece of speculation. So here it is: we won't see any new Kindle devices this year. Instead there will be a big firmware rollout in the fall with all the new typesetting features. And they will be breath-taking...

Haha, I hope so! I'm getting dreadfully tired of waiting for these updates, I have a feeling they will be breathtaking also. I think maybe just for the time being Ill borrow my friends iPhone and see how it looks on the kindle app there... Hopefully that should keep me satisfied till its available on my Voyage... Really hope its worth the wait...

GERGE · 07-23-2015, 03:21 AM

I see you have Kobo devices. Kindle's revolutionary typesetting features will look just like how ePubs have always looked with Kobo's Malabar typeface in Kobo devices. Or any other random device that uses Adobe's ePub engine.

No difference what so ever apart from the better drop-cap rendering.

GERGE · 07-23-2015, 03:28 AM

But I am waiting for this update with bated breath too. I want to see the differences Dalton Maag made between LCD Bookerly and eInk Bookerly.

cerem0ny · 07-23-2015, 03:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GERGE

I see you have Kobo devices. Kindle's revolutionary typesetting features will look just like how ePubs have always looked with Kobo's Malabar typeface in Kobo devices. Or any other random device that uses Adobe's ePub engine.

No difference what so ever apart from the better drop-cap rendering.

Ack, I used to have Kobos but not any more, and can't remember any distinct difference between the typesetting on either devices... As for there being no difference whatsoever, I don't believe it... The text is meant to fit together snugly, the words are meant to flow together better, real estate of the screen is apparently meant to be improved, adding to a better reading experience overall... I've got a pretty good sense of attention to small details and these new features sound totally up my alley and I can't wait... Plus I really like what Ive seen on the scarce videos and screenshots that have popped up in places, even if it is just two letter f's being joined together... Stuff like that legitimately excites me :P

GERGE · 07-23-2015, 04:10 AM

No, there really couldn't be any difference unless Kindle is worse. It is not scientifically possible to be better because there is no better. Hyphenation and ligatures are all as old as dirt. Sumerian cuneiform had ligatures. Latin script always had ligatures. Kerning emerged with digital type to emulate written script. It was always something that naturally existed in writing, inherent ever since any form of writing was invented.

Amazon can't make better ligatures. Can't make better kerning. These things are all type depended anyway, they are made with the typeface. Device just renders it. And as long as the device renders it as is (which Kobo does) there could be no better or worse between devices. Amazon can't even claim that they have the best kerning and the ligatures with Bookerly. There could be no such claim, ask any typographer you like. There is bad kerning and then there is kerning. This is all. Same thing with the ligatures.

When you take Kindle typefaces from a Kindle and put them to a Kobo, they should render exactly the same. Right now Kobo is way better because it also renders kerning and ligatures Kindle typefaces like Palatino and Baskerville have. And Kobo has hyphenation, of course.

Only difference there could be is hyphenation dictionaries. And Kobo's dictionary belongs to Adobe which is the best one used in professional publishing. It is hard to imagine any better.

PS. Kobo's kepub rendering is like Kindle's are now; no ligatures, no kerning and hyphenation is broken. You need to read epubs with Kobo to see proper typography.

howyoudoin · 07-23-2015, 04:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GERGE

PS. Kobo's kepub rendering is like Kindle's are now; no ligatures, no kerning and hyphenation is broken. You need to read epubs with Kobo to see proper typography.

I have kerning on my kePubs and the hyphenation works perfectly well.

GERGE · 07-23-2015, 04:26 AM

Kobo used to do ever-ybody. And typefaces only had kerning if you regenerate them with an old and unused format.

Not so anymore? I use Kobo but only with epubs.

howyoudoin · 07-23-2015, 04:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GERGE

Kobo used to do ever-ybody. And typefaces only had kerning if you regenerate them with an old and unused format.

Not so anymore? I use Kobo but only with epubs.

The hyphenation seems to have been fixed in the 3.16 update. I had those weird breaks with 3.13.1.

I have my side-loaded fonts fixed with old style kerning.

cerem0ny · 07-23-2015, 04:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GERGE

No, there really couldn't be any difference unless Kindle is worse. It is not scientifically possible to be better because there is no better. Hyphenation and ligatures are all as old as dirt. Sumerian cuneiform had ligatures. Latin script always had ligatures. Kerning emerged with digital type to emulate written script. It was always something that naturally existed in writing, inherent ever since any form of writing was invented.

Amazon can't make better ligatures. Can't make better kerning. These things are all type depended anyway, they are made with the typeface. Device just renders it. And as long as the device renders it as is (which Kobo does) there could be no better or worse between devices. Amazon can't even claim that they have the best kerning and the ligatures with Bookerly. There could be no such claim, ask any typographer you like. There is bad kerning and then there is kerning. This is all. Same thing with the ligatures.

When you take Kindle typefaces from a Kindle and put them to a Kobo, they should render exactly the same. Right now Kobo is way better because it also renders kerning and ligatures Kindle typefaces like Palatino and Baskerville have. And Kobo has hyphenation, of course.

Only difference there could be is hyphenation dictionaries. And Kobo's dictionary belongs to Adobe which is the best one used in professional publishing. It is hard to imagine any better.

PS. Kobo's kepub rendering is like Kindle's are now; no ligatures, no kerning and hyphenation is broken. You need to read epubs with Kobo to see proper typography.

Wait, so you're saying that the only difference these updates will make, particularly with baskerville/palatino is... Nothing? As far as I know, the Kindle as of right now does not render ligatures, kerning, drop caps at ALL, and this update is meant to add these features, whilst also (apparently) making the fonts themselves intuitive enough to bunch up and flow together nicely and make for better reading. And also joining two f's together

. You're telling me I won't notice these new updates at all on my Voyage? Have you watched this video? He seems to describe some pretty cool changes... Sorry for the mobile link... https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=T4Ek_O1RaGw

GERGE · 07-23-2015, 04:44 AM

Baskerville and Palatino already have kerning and ligatures. With the new update, Kindle will start to show them. But they will be shown exatly as they are shown with a Kobo right now. Kindle just doesn't render them now.

What I am saying is there is no way this update could make Kindle typography better than Kobo's epub typography.

I was comparing Kobo epub and new Kindle engine there, not new Kindle and old Kindle.

You will notice them, it will be like how epubs are with Kobo now. This is what I am saying.

cerem0ny · 07-23-2015, 04:47 AM

Ah well. I only ever have one device but wish I could pick up my old Kobo and check.

07-23-2015, 12:21 AM	#1
cerem0ny Evangelist Posts: 449 Karma: 3059202 Join Date: Jul 2014 Location: Australia Device: Kobo Libra Colour, Kindle Scribe 2024	Where is the enhanced typesetting update? Okay, so there are thousands of books with it activated, the paperwhite 3 has been out for yonks and so has the new font, the IOS app and the Kindle Fire already have it - when can I see it on my Kindle? I have seriously been waiting for ages with bated breath- I simply can't wait to see it. It's been months now since it's been announced right? So where is it? Does anybody have absolutely any idea? I'm refreshing the amazon updates page like, every hour and I have a sneaky suspicion I'm getting my hopes up for no reason

07-23-2015, 04:10 AM	#9
GERGE Guru Posts: 733 Karma: 5797160 Join Date: Jun 2010 Location: Istanbul Device: Kobo Libra	No, there really couldn't be any difference unless Kindle is worse. It is not scientifically possible to be better because there is no better. Hyphenation and ligatures are all as old as dirt. Sumerian cuneiform had ligatures. Latin script always had ligatures. Kerning emerged with digital type to emulate written script. It was always something that naturally existed in writing, inherent ever since any form of writing was invented. Amazon can't make better ligatures. Can't make better kerning. These things are all type depended anyway, they are made with the typeface. Device just renders it. And as long as the device renders it as is (which Kobo does) there could be no better or worse between devices. Amazon can't even claim that they have the best kerning and the ligatures with Bookerly. There could be no such claim, ask any typographer you like. There is bad kerning and then there is kerning. This is all. Same thing with the ligatures. When you take Kindle typefaces from a Kindle and put them to a Kobo, they should render exactly the same. Right now Kobo is way better because it also renders kerning and ligatures Kindle typefaces like Palatino and Baskerville have. And Kobo has hyphenation, of course. Only difference there could be is hyphenation dictionaries. And Kobo's dictionary belongs to Adobe which is the best one used in professional publishing. It is hard to imagine any better. PS. Kobo's kepub rendering is like Kindle's are now; no ligatures, no kerning and hyphenation is broken. You need to read epubs with Kobo to see proper typography. Last edited by GERGE; 07-23-2015 at 04:13 AM.

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07-23-2015, 01:27 AM	#2
cybmole Wizard Posts: 3,720 Karma: 1759970 Join Date: Sep 2010 Device: none	every hour seems a tad OCD. why not contact amazon and ask them ?

07-23-2015, 01:54 AM	#3
HarryT eBook Enthusiast Posts: 85,544 Karma: 93383099 Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: UK Device: Kindle Oasis 2, iPad Pro 10.5", iPhone 6	What did Amazon say when you asked them? They are the only ones who know.

07-23-2015, 02:32 AM	#4
mandy314 Connoisseur Posts: 71 Karma: 200092 Join Date: Mar 2014 Device: kindle pw1	Not the finest hour of Amazon's marketing imho. Here in Germany the pre-release announcement touted the PW3 with its "book-like" reading experience - you know, "paper-white" and "book-like". This was picked up by the media. Most did a "copy and paste" job, but some tried to explain the revolutionary new typesetting engine, which was funny in most cases. Amazon's info pages were changed every other day iirc. At first you could get the impression of Amazon having "invented" kerning, ligatures, hyphenation with this new Bookerly font - at the end you learned that "coming soon" for the device was different from "coming soon" for the typesetting lark. Furthermore - uncommon for new Kindles the PW3 hit retail shops within days of the net release. And there were/are quite visible (but somewhat darkish) Kindle ads on the street and in newspapers etc. So what? I can see Mono/Linotype not being amused; the fonts they have on the PW support kerning/ligatures out of the box. The OSS libs Amazon's rendering engines are build around can handle all the "new" features for years. So what is Amazon doing - "working hard" at this revolutionary typesetting engine (and re-processing ebooks in the process)? I really don't know. The Fire device and the iOS app were used for beta testing - it seems. But the users are more or less quiet concerning the "book-like" experience. Now we are more than three weeks past the PW3 release. High time to put in my piece of speculation. So here it is: we won't see any new Kindle devices this year. Instead there will be a big firmware rollout in the fall with all the new typesetting features. And they will be breath-taking...

07-23-2015, 03:21 AM	#6
GERGE Guru Posts: 733 Karma: 5797160 Join Date: Jun 2010 Location: Istanbul Device: Kobo Libra	I see you have Kobo devices. Kindle's revolutionary typesetting features will look just like how ePubs have always looked with Kobo's Malabar typeface in Kobo devices. Or any other random device that uses Adobe's ePub engine. No difference what so ever apart from the better drop-cap rendering.

07-23-2015, 03:28 AM	#7
GERGE Guru Posts: 733 Karma: 5797160 Join Date: Jun 2010 Location: Istanbul Device: Kobo Libra	But I am waiting for this update with bated breath too. I want to see the differences Dalton Maag made between LCD Bookerly and eInk Bookerly.

07-23-2015, 04:26 AM	#11
GERGE Guru Posts: 733 Karma: 5797160 Join Date: Jun 2010 Location: Istanbul Device: Kobo Libra	Kobo used to do ever-ybody. And typefaces only had kerning if you regenerate them with an old and unused format. Not so anymore? I use Kobo but only with epubs.

07-23-2015, 04:44 AM	#14
GERGE Guru Posts: 733 Karma: 5797160 Join Date: Jun 2010 Location: Istanbul Device: Kobo Libra	Baskerville and Palatino already have kerning and ligatures. With the new update, Kindle will start to show them. But they will be shown exatly as they are shown with a Kobo right now. Kindle just doesn't render them now. What I am saying is there is no way this update could make Kindle typography better than Kobo's epub typography. I was comparing Kobo epub and new Kindle engine there, not new Kindle and old Kindle. You will notice them, it will be like how epubs are with Kobo now. This is what I am saying.

07-23-2015, 04:47 AM	#15
cerem0ny Evangelist Posts: 449 Karma: 3059202 Join Date: Jul 2014 Location: Australia Device: Kobo Libra Colour, Kindle Scribe 2024	Ah well. I only ever have one device but wish I could pick up my old Kobo and check.